Welsh cob owners..

[Lyle]

Looking for advice/ideas from owners and riders of Welsh Cobs. I have a super, just turned 4yo section D who I bought last year as a 3yo. He has always been sharp, reactive, snorty and with a high flight (I.e run away!) reflex. I bought him from his breeder, and it definitely took 6 months for him to begin to settle.
I’ve done extensive ground work and desensitising, things that you’d think would be scary (clippers, cordless angle grinder ...) he doesn’t bat an eye lid. Sometimes still, simply throwing a rug over sends him into flight mode. I backed him lightly over the summer, and was over all pretty good. I’ve been doing a lot of long reining recently though, to try and get him out and seeing more without me being the ‘leader’. He’s very good in the round yard walk, trot canter, figure eights and halt. Outside, he’s very spooky. Working through this though, and he’s improved a lot.
People who know his breeding and breeder are all very surprised that he’s not ‘dead’ quiet...
he lives outside with a buddy, our grass is not fabulous and rich at any stretch, and gets a handful of lucerne and soaked barley. Weight is very good, so considering cutting all hard feed.
Any one had similar experiences? Is it an age thing? Work load? Feed? Experience?

 

[ihatework]

I generally find the welshies need work, structure, patience and not a lot of food. They need a job and they need to know what is expected of them. Try to ignore/laugh at, rather than pander to, the dramatics.

I’d get the horse off Alfa and barley, both can make susceptible horses over reactive.

 

[milliepops]

Uh, mine is like this aged 15.
She was also spoiled by her previous owner, spoiled as in ruined rather than treated too generously, so that has added complexity.
She's not frightened by machinery or clippers etc (clipping is her favourite thing ever) but is prone to hysterical meltdowns about the outside world especially spring and autumn when the hormones are rising.

The more she learns the better she is. Some days I can't ride in walk around the school but she will do her advanced work happily because she enjoys it and it occupies her brain so we just crack on.
I would try to get on and teach him productive things rather than try to desensitise him. They just are sensitive horses and to a point you can't change their essential nature. Orderly behaviour comes from learning and giving them a task to do I think. Mine is never going to learn to be a quite docile horse, I have to play to her strengths instead. And laughing is def the best strategy, I totally agree with IHW, if you let them press your buttons you've had it.

 

[awelshandawarmblood]

Mines a fire breathing beast at 15 & has been since a foal - he's got particularly hot breeding lines though so I'm told so explains a lot. They vary a lot! How's yours bred?

 

[Lyle]

Excellent, thank you! He’s got an extensive knowledge of groundwork, he’s obviously been super easy to teach anything active to and has the best work ethic and it’s obvious he enjoys the work. I do the desensitising in balance with anything sensitising (active) and it has been very helpful in getting to think a bit first, not just flip out. Obviously any work is varied and not solely limited to the roundyard/school. Weve jumped from the ground a bit recently, out in the paddock over logs/ditches/banks, his manners on the ground/lunge are exemplary and does all his groundwork from a rope halter in a fifty acre paddock without issues. It’s just, as Milliepops put it, the meltdowns that I’m curious about. Ignoring them and putting him back to work has been the strategy, so it’s good to know I was on the right track.

 

[Highflinger]

I think partly just "welsh" & partly age. I have Welsh D and he is 29 and generally chilled but can still have his moments! In his younger years he could be very sharp and spooky. He has lived very well on grass and modest hay in winter - never fed "hard" feed until mid twenties and still only in winter when grass is poor. I found doing Trec helped him be less spooky and just general getting used to life. Walking out in hand for 40 mins a day for a month also helped a fair bit . You could try a magnesium supplement - cheap magnesium on ebay - no need for an expensive "calmer" supplement but will only work if low in magnesium ( apparently a lot of the UK land is) . about a tablespoon a day and you will know within 5/6 days if it working.
Also have a look at the TRT Method - lot of info on youtube. My younger boy (not welsh) can be spooky and has the "run" ratter than "think" mindset and TRT is really helping
Good luck and enjoy your boy.

 

[dorsetladette]

Yep I've a 17 year old who will turn in to a fire breathing dragon to make life more interesting.
I love the breed and could never have anything else, but they do drive you to distraction sometimes.
Ignore/laugh at it and keep going - the worst thing you can do is get cross with them or pander to them. If you mother them they will play on it more. They are ridiculously intelligent and as loyal as they come once you have them onside.

Agree with posters above they need little food and a lot of work and structure.

 

[milliepops]

, the meltdowns that I’m curious about. Ignoring them and putting him back to work has been the strategy, so it’s good to know I was on the right track.

I think so. If mine erupts there is no reasoning with her, giving her something new to concentrate on and move on with is the only way then. Fortunately she enjoys difficult things so if we get stuck spooking or napping I can often get her to think differently with something like half steps where the tension becomes positive, and then tease the forward relaxation out of her again from there.

 

[HeyMich]

to try and get him out and seeing more without me being the ‘leader’.

I was at a confidence camp last week and we discussed this.

As we know, horses are herd animals, and they always look to a leader for input on how to behave. If there is no leader, they become that top horse within the herd, and if they are unsure or threatened, they run. The instructor (or was it the psychologist who was there giving group sessions?) was telling us to always be their leaders - with clear, strong instructions, calm, confident demeanor etc, and then there is nowhere for the horses to misunderstand and think they need to be the leader of the herd. Therefore, if you project to them that there is no reason to flee, they won't. It made absolute sense to me. The difficulty is putting it into practice...

You have to be their leader all the time. Not by being pushy or strong, but by being calm and confident, and telling them you are looking out for the herd. Worth a try?

 

[ester]

Mines 27 and still like this.
Always sensible when the chips are down, 100% in any traffic/trains etc, can wrap him in tarpaulin, still spooking at daffodils.

I got him as a 12yo and in hindsight he was very unsettled after 2 home changes in quick succession. He really wanted you to hold his hand a lot of the time so we worked on taking responsibilty for himself.
He loves long reining and it still provides both of us with entertainment when he can spook, not get a reaction from me other than to tell him how daft he looks.

For the most part people would consider him a good welsh, and not particularly welsh or tricky most of the time. But even he still had welsh days/moments. Usually when there is the capacity to embarrass
I think it's a fine balance between leadership, them having some self confidence and the occasional you absolutely have to behave at this point.

 

[PurBee]

Yep I've a 17 year old who will turn in to a fire breathing dragon to make life more interesting.
I love the breed and could never have anything else, but they do drive you to distraction sometimes.
Ignore/laugh at it and keep going - the worst thing you can do is get cross with them or pander to them. If you mother them they will play on it more. They are ridiculously intelligent and as loyal as they come once you have them onside.

Agree with posters above they need little food and a lot of work and structure.

my welsh d mare x arab is like this. Took me a while to understand her brain, but once i ignored the meltdowns as if nothing happened, remained calm, focused...she began to trust me and then look to me for guidance in situation. I used to be reactive, and these hot horses taught me not to be, by them being highly reactive!
Yet my mare on oats becomes a dragon for no reason, so try holding back on the alfalfa and barley. Is the barley cooked? Ive fed that to mine, soaked overnight and cooked for an hour rather than ‘steamed flaked’ like bagged feed and she was fine on that, whereas tetchy on bagged feeds slightly cooked grains.

They do like a structure/routine in their life ...mine literally Shouts at me if im late with feeds...which is rare, but im sure she’s got a rolex hidden on her somewhere!

 

[milliepops]

unless super super sensitive tummy I don't think the feeding thing is as important as getting their brain on side. I feed mine Turbo flakes (sugar coated oats and soya) on working days to give her the fast release oompf for the advanced work (though she does get lumps from alfalfa so I too avoid this). She's no worse on this ridiculous feed than she is on her normal grassnuts/balancer diet

 

[dorsetladette]

My old boys eruptions stopped happening when we starting hacking in a new area. Looking back this is possibly because I became less interested in him and his antics and more interested in exploring and seeing the new(to me) country side. So his paddy's were given little attention and they quickly stopped. He really enjoyed our exploring. Getting miles under his belt really was the making of that scared of his own shadow pony.

 

[pansymouse]

Mine D x TB is rising 27 and dramatic, random and logic free over-reaction is her chosen lifestyle. I entirely blame her Welsh genes.

 

[BeckyFlowers]

My 20yo is like this - I tell myself it's part of his charm(!). He is rock steady in so many situations - traffic of all descriptions, being ridden by novices, being handled, being led, walking over tarpaulin, hacking out alone etc. But me carrying a map sent him into a meltdown, my dentist scanning him for his microchip sent him into a meltdown, a fly hood sent him into a meltdown, and some daffodils sent him into a meltdown. With these things he completely lost his nut. Yet someone on a moped zooming straight for us on a bridlepath and then missing us by a whisker he took in his stride, flappy flags and banners he will snort at but go past just fine, and he has walked on a fly-tipped mattress once. I find that (and again, this was more when he was younger) if he wants to get away from me due to an impending meltdown, he won't think twice about using his size (16hh) against me. He has barged past me before. However, this stupid behaviour very rarely happens. I think Henry calmed down a lot after our other one retired and I was doing stuff with him on his own (once he got used to being brought in on his own and standing on his own).

I would say that the rug thing is typical baby and not really Welsh-related - maybe it just took him by surprise that time. I agree with the others not to pander to the hystrionics and to ensure their brain is engaged. I think mine prefers taking my leadership rather than having to make decisions for himself. I love him to bits and wouldn't have him any other way!

Pictures please!

 

[ester]

The one that took me a while to work out was how much hates white noise out of speakers, doesn't like the electricity pylons in the rain either.
However people setting off coloured smoke bombs on top of the small pylon in your field to find the fault, that's ok.

It was very strange to start because we'd be down the longside of the indoor we used to go to SJ a lot and he'd be asleep, nose resting on the slats and then all of a sudden we would have to get out, now! I'd forgotten a bit about that when I stopped taking him to stuff until we hacked to an evening performance showing show down the road.

 

[Annagain]

Mine was never particularly spooky (even after being hit by a van he was fine on the roads) but he was incredibly arrogant (I think the reason he wasn't spooky was he thought he was invincible) and very much liked his own way. The worst thing I could do was challenge him directly. Distracting and getting him to do something else (even just changing the rein and doing the same thing the other way round ) was the way round anything he decided he didn't want to do. I think it's probably two sides of the same coin. Their stubborn streak can manifest itself in arrogance like my boy or in spookiness like yours - once they've decided they're scared of something there's little you can do you persuade them otherwise and you just have to do something else.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

I have one, I think I've been put off them for life!!
One thing I will say is he has never done anything out of malice he has never kicked/ bitten/ reared like yours flight is his primary response and it would be out of fear not nastiness I dont think he has a bad bone in his body
When they're having a "normal" moment they're very good. When they're being hysterical my word are they frustrating! Like you say it isnt over the things you would expect them to be scared of, it's the stupid things which I think is what makes it so frustrating! For example mine will with a bit of snorting/ backing off walk past fly tipping/ tractors out hacking. Happily walk through big puddles. Come across a piece of flattened poo/ mud/ trickle of water/ when the school has track Mark's when it's been harrowed/ wet and it is absolutely terrifying, he screeches to a halt and the snorting starts. Same as if you're trimming his legs sometime he will stand there like a sweet angel, then others he will sidle across the stable/ keep lifting his leg up which then sometimes mean the comb or scissors knock him, cue hysteria! I must admit if he's messing with the leg and sidling he does get told off as he can stand perfectly fine for it to be done.


The key to him is routine. It would be really interesting to see if horses could get autism as if he were a person I'd have him tested. Eg catching if you're outside his catching window jog on as he isnt coming in! He will even stand as if he wants to come in you reach up to the headcollar and he whirled away! Hes once been refusing to be caught for a week then one day walked up to the gate and called to come in! Another time me and my mum spent a cold xmas day afternoon trying to get him and he was just stood in the corner of the field. Then suddenly he called to come in! He is not at all food oriented if you take a bucket out and he doesn't want to come in he completely ignores you almost like hes shut down.

Yo has banned him from being tied on the yard as she has a riding school business so has clients around and he had a thing of being tied up on the yard then he would start to lean back, front legs stuck forward braced, the snorting would start then he would jerk back and snap the string, it was closed once so I'd tied him up on the yard to dry after a bath and the routine started and a fellow livery commented that it was almost like he was looking for something to be scared of and in turn scaring himself!

I described some of his traits when insuring him and the lady said its fairly typical of the breed!! My instructor said how their ears curve in slightly when fully pricked and look like little devils horns!

 

[milliepops]

While mine is nutty and challenging I just love her to bits, OP I hope you enjoy yours too. Finding work she enjoyed allowed mine to flourish and tbh I would forgive her anything because she gives me so much pleasure even on the days when she spends more time whirling around in a mess of feathers and mane than working. I've had good hearted horses before but this one is on a whole new level of expressive and she's fun to be around. I would love to have another when this one has to hang up her dancing shoes.

I would add. I adjusted my expectations to fit what she is good at. I wanted her to be an easy project all rounder to sell, and she is certainly none of those things

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

I generally find the welshies need work, structure, patience and not a lot of food. They need a job and they need to know what is expected of them. Try to ignore/laugh at, rather than pander to, the dramatics.

I’d get the horse off Alfa and barley, both can make susceptible horses over reactive.

Agree with not reacting to the hysterics if you did that with mine youd never get anything done, make it worse and he would probably laugh at you!!

 

[palo1]

I generally find the welshies need work, structure, patience and not a lot of food. They need a job and they need to know what is expected of them. Try to ignore/laugh at, rather than pander to, the dramatics.

I’d get the horse off Alfa and barley, both can make susceptible horses over reactive.

I am no Welshie expert but for any horse I would definately get rid of both lucerne and barley if there were reactivity issues. Been there done that - it is amazing how that can make a difference though that may not be the case of course!!

 

[palo1]

Excellent, thank you! He’s got an extensive knowledge of groundwork, he’s obviously been super easy to teach anything active to and has the best work ethic and it’s obvious he enjoys the work. I do the desensitising in balance with anything sensitising (active) and it has been very helpful in getting to think a bit first, not just flip out. Obviously any work is varied and not solely limited to the roundyard/school. Weve jumped from the ground a bit recently, out in the paddock over logs/ditches/banks, his manners on the ground/lunge are exemplary and does all his groundwork from a rope halter in a fifty acre paddock without issues. It’s just, as Milliepops put it, the meltdowns that I’m curious about. Ignoring them and putting him back to work has been the strategy, so it’s good to know I was on the right track.

What is his breeding can I ask? Also, sometimes with these sorts of horses they need to be mentally VERY well occupied so tasks/work that you may think is too complex (mentally, not necessarily physically) is just what they need. Or very long, slow distance work can help although potentially you could end up with an enormously fit but still very sensitive/over reactive horse which may not be what you want lol!!

 

[Muddywellies]

Crikey I'd cut out the lucerne and barley pronto.
If you're looking for something quiet, a Welshie may not be it. Mine is dope on a rope one minute but if the tiniest thing bothers her, I'm in the next county in 3 seconds! It's not actually 'things' that bother her (yesterday met the dustbin lorry out hacking!), but 'situations'. She naps terribly competing and throws her teddy out the cot! She needs firm boundaries but I have to work with her rather than boss her. It's hard to explain. I think the hardest thing is getting them on side and getting their brain in the right place. They are spirited, but loyal, and once they love and respect you they'll do anything for you. But they aren't for the lighthearted and mine can scare me sometimes

 

[DirectorFury]

I do a lot of 'will you get on with it' and laughing at mine and that seems to work. As soon as I start to get scared at her antics she will escalate and get even more scared. I try very hard to just take a deep breath and roll my eyes when she starts!

Yo has banned him from being tied on the yard as she has a riding school business so has clients around and he had a thing of being tied up on the yard then he would start to lean back, front legs stuck forward braced, the snorting would start then he would jerk back and snap the string, it was closed once so I'd tied him up on the yard to dry after a bath and the routine started and a fellow livery commented that it was almost like he was looking for something to be scared of and in turn scaring himself!

Mine does this unless you're stood with her and it drives me mental. I have tried everything to train it out of her but she escalates so much I think she'd end up breaking her own neck. She's fine if she has a haynet and it's for 10-15 minutes but as soon as she's bored the monsters start appearing .

 

[crazyandme]

Definitely need a sense of humour with a Welsh. And they definitely need to be occupied mentally. I could never do basic circles with mine, she would just invert and pretend she was a giraffe and then spook at a conveniently placed stone. But when I asked her to knuckle down and think with lateral stuff she was no problem whatsoever and would work wonderfully. In other words, she would make up her own entertainment if her brain wasn't kept occupied!

 

[milliepops]

When mine goes into monster mode it's like the basic essence of wild ponies has come out through her pores, the survival instinct is overwhelming and there's not a lot you can do to drown it out

In the blink of an eye you can go from highly trained and responsive to totally feral, denying she was ever backed ?

I love the knife edge ?
Someone on FB has just challenged riders with advanced horses to try and get 90% in an online prelim dressage show. Not.a.chance. Mine only bought into the sport when it started getting interesting, she's far too clever for boring circles.

 

[crazyandme]

Mine only bought into the sport when it started getting interesting, she's far too clever for boring circles.

I had many instructors spend hours trying to get us working correctly just from circles. I get their point, but my Welsh just wouldn't focus her brain at all! Kinda counterproductive really. We would manage it for about 2 minutes max. So as a result I refused to do any dressage with her (keeping in mind I was also a jumping mad teen at the time, and was starting to get into endurance!)
She thankfully wasn't too bad at switching, but she did have a ridiculous spook when she felt she needed to make life more entertaining. She was probably worst when I was riding with my sister and her horse, and then she would just get hysterical because she couldn't be behind, couldn't be in front and certainly not alongside! Bit of a nuisance when competing!

 

[Madali]

I agree with all the above things that the others have said but about 18 months ago I learnt a new trick which has revolutionised things for me.
At a clinic with Jenko we worked on rewarding good work with treats. ( I too was sceptical). apparently eating triggers the good part of the brain and stops the reactive part from working.
Generally I feel the change in my girl, so a tiny handful of nuts seems to calm her down.
I know I’m in serious trouble if she ignores the food. That is very rare now. ?

 

[Lyle]

Thank you so much everyone for your input, lots of food for thought!

 

[dorsetladette]

I didn't show my old lad undersaddle until he was 23 (owned him from 15 months) as I feared for the ride judges safety ?. I did veteran classes with him and was marked down as he anticipated my aids. In fairness he could of done his individual show without me being there!