Welsh Sec Ds

[Littlewills]

I don’t think I have seen a highland youngster with decent bloodlines for under 1.5k. I was helping my friend look for one. I bought my D youngster with fabulous bloodlines for a lot lot less than that.

Foals go from £800. A nice 3yr old will between 2 and 3 k, probably the lower end in Scotland. Covid has pushed prices up a bit, but only for the ready to go RC allrounder types, not youngstock. I wouldnt say that was remotely expensive, in fact, its far too little really. And as OP has already said that highlands make her heart sing, and that shes in Scotland already its where I would be starting.

I've had welsh Ds and they are not for everyone. I've never met a part bred I didnt like. I've got one. I wouldnt have a full D again though.

 

[rara007]

If you want a big pony/small horse for dressage and hacking most welshes will get you a long way Highlands are lovely but you’re always on the back foot with regards to athleticism and natural paces (sorry JTFD!). If it really is just a ‘friend’ you want with no higher level dressage ambitions then that won’t matter so much, and I’m sure there is a higher level highland at dressage (maybe...) but welshes are pretty prevalent at the ‘mid’ levels with some making it to the top levels. There’s some very tricky PREs about in the UK and you’ll get less for your money....

 

[milliepops]

I have a young Welsh D. I bought her as a 2yo from the Maesmynach stud; they tend to breed slightly larger (15.2 +) and sporty/ridden Welsh Ds. There was a fabulous choice with a huge range of potential.

If i ever get myself in some kind of financial order, I will be heading straight to Maesmynach for one of theirs, i did enquire when I was last looking to buy but they didn't have anything in my puny budget at the time. lovely lovely horses.

 

[Caol Ila]

There was a Sec D in the northwest US at Grand Prix a few years ago. The one I trained had zero natural balanced canter. Even free lunging. Luckily, her owner only wanted to be a happy hacker. It must totally depend on the lines.

My dressage ambitions have withered. I guess I don't know how I feel about it anymore. At this point, I would like to do something resembling dressage and I don't care about the level. Twenty years ago, I wanted to move up the levels and worked really hard for years, but just got burned out and felt I lacked the natural balance and coordination required to actually be good at dressage. So there's that. But I know I want to ride as far as I can up the West Highland Way and John Muir Way, which are both accessible from the yard.

 

[Annagain]

Generally, Maesmynachs have a reputation for being quirky. The ones I know have all been lovely - highly intelligent and don't always use that intelligence in the right way, especially if it's not channeled correctly but lovely nonetheless and so so talented.

 

[milliepops]

Generally, Maesmynachs have a reputation for being quirky. The ones I know have all been lovely - highly intelligent and don't always use that intelligence in the right way, especially if it's not channeled correctly but lovely nonetheless and so so talented.

lol, not bothered by quirkyness , personally but CI might have had enough of it so fair point.

North Forks Cardi is a D at GP in the US, they share quite a bit on FB incl progeny.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

If it's still available, maybe watch this on iplayer.

Coast and Country Auctions

'Series looking at Britain's traditional markets. This episode visits the Royal Welsh Showground in Builth Wells, Wales, which hosts the Welsh Cob Autumn Sale.'

https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/explorer/b09vkn7w

 

[milliepops]

There's so much variation in the breed, mine has a really great canter (best pace and hugely capable) but then she doesn't have the big flashy breed trot, wonder if there's a correlation.

 

[Caol Ila]

Yeah, Milliepops has a point. I feel tired and "quirked out." I've been accomodating quirky for 20 years. Something friendly and kind who takes the whole breaking-in process in its stride would be ideal.

 

[milliepops]

i would consider a partbred then, as you're not looking to breed yourself you won't get the lottery effect and could get something fairly tough, fairly sporty, and lots of fun. TB x D and TB x Highland are both really nice combinations, (so are TB x Connie but probably more fashionable so more £) the ones I have known have turned a hoof to everything and been thoroughly nice animals.

 

[Caol Ila]

What's the lottery effect?

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Yeah, Milliepops has a point. I feel tired and "quirked out." I've been accomodating quirky for 20 years. Something friendly and kind who takes the whole breaking-in process in its stride would be ideal.

As you like Arabs, maybe look at Crabbet bred Arabs? My high % crabbet is very level headed and straight forward and this is normal for those bloodlines.

 

[milliepops]

What's the lottery effect?

i mean if you are breeding a cob x a TB, you might end up with a cob body on spindly TB legs, or a little TB body on huge cob legs, or..... generally the worst of both breeds. if you go to look at horses already born you can at least rule out the duffers and only go and look at the ones that have made a lovely mix

 

[milliepops]

As you like Arabs, maybe look at Crabbet bred Arabs? My high % crabbet is very level headed and straight forward and this is normal for those bloodlines.

i rode a few Crabbets for several years and echo this, they were lovely horses, pretty arab toughness but no drama and very trainable.

 

[Caol Ila]

Gotcha. I know what you mean.

Yes, I know Crabbets are good. Where do you find them?

Horsesmart and Horsequest don't have anything terribly exciting today.

Gypsum was sound until this year. Never a lame day. Twenty fkcuking years, which I know is amazing and lucky. And I know anything can happen with any horse, but I'm trying to improve my odds, as much as anyone can.

 

[palo1]

Yeah, Milliepops has a point. I feel tired and "quirked out." I've been accomodating quirky for 20 years. Something friendly and kind who takes the whole breaking-in process in its stride would be ideal.

My Maesmynach youngster has been entirely straightforward in the starting and riding away process - not a single thing has been a 'problem'. Ironically, she has been the most straightforward horse I have ever started which I wasn't quite anticipating!! However, I was prepared, from day 1 to ensure that we established a clear and consistent line of communication and to ensure that good manners were instilled. I don't think Welshies will take any form of bullying which the more blood types (bless them) sometimes will put up with Not sure what to say about quirkiness as my mare is certainly a huge 'character' - she is just not 'difficult' !! Arabs, the good ones, are fabulous too and I hope that I can always have an arab or pb and a Welsh D in my yard!!

 

[Meowy Catkin]

https://www.crabbet-heritage.com/united-kingdom

 

[palo1]

As you like Arabs, maybe look at Crabbet bred Arabs? My high % crabbet is very level headed and straight forward and this is normal for those bloodlines.

The Bahraini Arabs are wonderful too - laid back, fab temperament and amazing work ethic. We have a pb (from one of our mares) that is way 'better' than we would ever need.

 

[palo1]

Gotcha. I know what you mean.

Yes, I know Crabbets are good. Where do you find them?

Horsesmart and Horsequest don't have anything terribly exciting today.

Gypsum was sound until this year. Never a lame day. Twenty fkcuking years, which I know is amazing and lucky. And I know anything can happen with any horse, but I'm trying to improve my odds, as much as anyone can.

If you like traditional arabs how about these: http://www.pearlislandarabians.co.uk/ and https://www.facebook.com/Pearl.Island.Arabians

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Foals go from £800. A nice 3yr old will between 2 and 3 k, probably the lower end in Scotland. Covid has pushed prices up a bit, but only for the ready to go RC allrounder types, not youngstock. I wouldnt say that was remotely expensive, in fact, its far too little really. And as OP has already said that highlands make her heart sing, and that shes in Scotland already its where I would be starting.

I've had welsh Ds and they are not for everyone. I've never met a part bred I didnt like. I've got one. I wouldnt have a full D again though.

Well no any going for that price that I saw and I’m in Scotland. They seem to command a higher price tag. A type of horse may make your heart sing, for me it’s Akhal-Teke horses, however might not be best for what you are needing them to do ??‍. Highlands are lovely ponies and very hardy and sturdy and a few can jump and be athletic but that’s not what they were bred for. Welshies were bred to be a jack of all trades master of none and even within the breed there are traditional lines and newer sporty types, also they don’t have as rigid a height and type format as the highland stud book has. Seen all shapes and sizes ?.

Op if you are on Facebook join the Welsh d and highland pages many breeders showcase on there and you can peruse and contact for info on stock for sale.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

http://www.biddesdenstud.co.uk/stock/bisque/

Not sure what % Crabbet he is, but Biddesden breed lovely horses and I know they have crabbet lines in their arabs.

 

[Caol Ila]

Some of those Arabs in the above links are very pretty. Pretty is important too.

England seems to be hoaching with studs. So few in Scotland!

 

[DirectorFury]

There's so much variation in the breed, mine has a really great canter (best pace and hugely capable) but then she doesn't have the big flashy breed trot, wonder if there's a correlation.

Same for mine - great walk and canter and none of that knees-up Welsh trot (good ).

Yeah, Milliepops has a point. I feel tired and "quirked out." I've been accomodating quirky for 20 years. Something friendly and kind who takes the whole breaking-in process in its stride would be ideal.

Mine is from Maesmynach lines and she was an absolute angel to back. She'd been sat on around 10 times when I met her and was asked to ride, I wasn't told about the 10 times bit! I asked if she cantered and was told 'probably', so I asked for canter and she popped straight into it really sensibly and sweetly with no indication it was her first canter under saddle.
She's more quirky on the ground than under saddle (can't be tied up and left unattended) but this is because I don't have the time or energy to sort it out as she never needs to be left tied up.

Edit: I know the last bit makes me a bad owner, I'll fix it one day...

 

[Annagain]

My Maesmynach youngster has been entirely straightforward in the starting and riding away process - not a single thing has been a 'problem'. Ironically, she has been the most straightforward horse I have ever started which I wasn't quite anticipating!! However, I was prepared, from day 1 to ensure that we established a clear and consistent line of communication and to ensure that good manners were instilled. I don't think Welshies will take any form of bullying which the more blood types (bless them) sometimes will put up with Not sure what to say about quirkiness as my mare is certainly a huge 'character' - she is just not 'difficult' !! Arabs, the good ones, are fabulous too and I hope that I can always have an arab or pb and a Welsh D in my yard!!

You know that saying "Tell a gelding, ask a mare, negotiate with a stallion"? We used to say "Ask Eb what he wants and do your best to give it to him." 99% of the time, what he wanted was the same as what you wanted. It was just that 1% that was awkward. He was remarkably sensible and rarely did things to endanger himself so he kept you safe apart from on the very odd occasion when his excitement boiled over.

CI - a friend has a Welsh x ID. Now that is a lovely mix. Built like a tank with the intelligence of the Welshy and the temperament of the ID. He's prone to a bit of stubbornness now and again but is usually very easily trained.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

One of the stud farms in the crabbet link used to post on here (Avonbrook).

https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/if-i-was-in-the-market-for-an-arab.618675/#post-11876931

 

[cauda equina]

There's a gorgeous looking Arab gelding for sale on H&H, 3yo in Worcestershire for 3.5k

 

[Flame_]

Flame's breeding was unknown, but looks, type and temperament pretty much made her section d x arab. ETA She was sharp, hot, clever, agile, uphill and ultimately exciting but safe. I've been a lifelong fan of both breeds and hope one day to have another 1/2 1/2 cross.

I don't know where you're getting the 15k prices for arabs, I'd have long ago lost interest in them if they were generally that kind of money, lol. I hope you find a wonderful horse anyway

 

[DabDab]

<whispers> maybe a knabstrupper...?

 

[Flame_]

Some of those Arabs in the above links are very pretty. Pretty is important too.

England seems to be hoaching with studs. So few in Scotland!

Could you make it down to Cumbria? Cumbria Arabians breed lovely horses. ETA, I'm actually thinking of Oakthwaite in Cumbria, but both studs are probably worth considering.

 

[Littlewills]

Well no any going for that price that I saw and I’m in Scotland. They seem to command a higher price tag. A type of horse may make your heart sing, for me it’s Akhal-Teke horses, however might not be best for what you are needing them to do ??‍. Highlands are lovely ponies and very hardy and sturdy and a few can jump and be athletic but that’s not what they were bred for. Welshies were bred to be a jack of all trades master of none and even within the breed there are traditional lines and newer sporty types, also they don’t have as rigid a height and type format as the highland stud book has. Seen all shapes and sizes ?.

Op if you are on Facebook join the Welsh d and highland pages many breeders showcase on there and you can peruse and contact for info on stock for sale.

They dont get advertised to the general public as a rule. I rarely see an ad. However there is a lady based n England who will source one for you. No cost, she works as an unoffical broker for the HPS. You ring her with your list of requirements and she sends you the details of what suits. Last time I spoke to her she sent me 4 possibilities within an hour, including a nice full up 8yr mare for £2,500. And that was mid-summer last year so mid corona buying madness.

If OP wants a welsh then she should buy one, but dont buy one as you think they might do the job for you. You have to really like them to put up with all the dramatics. And given you say youve had a quirky horse for 20years I wouldnt have a welshie for free. You do get the odd easy one, I've had one, but the vast majority are quirky and dramatic, and I wouldnt want to run that risk. It would be different if you really loved them and desperately wanted one then you could take a calculated risk.