We're now out of the 2010 Nations Cup - Discuss

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BBH

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Well, its an almighty cock up but I'm not sure of the benefits of legal wranglings.

I'm wondering if it won't give British SJing ( BSJA ) the kick it needs and use this period to reflect and get its house in order.
 
How crazy
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but not entirely unexpected......
 
I think it's disgusting behaviour on the part of the FEI and the President's remark that it is 'in the best interests of the sport' is disingenuous. In whose best interests? And all because of bad drafting on a rule. CAS? Bring it ON!
 
Beggars belief. Lawyers will be rubbing their hands in glee. Irrespective of whether you think Belgium or GB should have been the one to join Italy it is a mess of grandest proportions. Is it really in the best interest of the sport to have its name dragged through the courts?
And all because some halfwit can't draft a simple rule for a tiebreaker (presumably back to lawyers again!).
 
As it happens when they announced both would stay up they said subject to ratification for one thing.
For another as i tried very hard to point out, if they made an exception for Britain or belgium, it didnt matter which, because it is rule 16 that applies specifically to relegation, then they would have to make the same exception for the italians, cue booking a session with CAS.
I think In also said that IMHO dropping all three was the only way they would get round the legalities and i still think that is so and that if anyone does go to CAS they will back up the FEI albeit with a few stern words to get them to sort out their lives.
and as other people have said a year out of the super league wont hurt us much, it certainly hasnt hurt either the french, Irish or the Swiss all of whom were the among the fallen in the last three years.
 
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if anyone does go to CAS they will back up the FEI albeit

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What a sweeping statement. It is THIS decision which looks awful for the sport. Fortunately the BEF and the BSJA are not taking this lying down.
 
if you are going to quote, use the whole sentence in context or dont bother, we are not the News of the World here....
Obviously now the BEF have officially decided to go to CAS, so will the Belgians and therefore so will the italians. CAS will have to back the FEI on this one or run 12 teams in next years super league it is as simple as that. There are no other alternatives that will stand up legally.
If they run 12 teams that will be the end of the super league anyway, wont be that 'super' with that many in will it?
I am not disputiung the FEI made a pigs ear of it but thaT was as much becaiuse their representative opened his mouth in Dublin before the rules were studied. Once they were, it is fairly obviousl Rule 16 was put there to apply to relegation but which ever rule you apply you have to then make an exception to it for teh other team and therefore the Italians can object, not to their pown relegation per see but to the fact an exception was made.
Consequently the only solution is all or none, none will save the super league and a huge increase in cost to all concerned and therefore CAS will back the FEI.
I have been explaining this since Dublin, feel free to check past threads, it isnt that hard to work out if you step back and stop looking at it from ta Team GB point of view.
 
I think the whole FEI board should resign en masse...that would make way for the inhabitants of the ape house at London Zoo to take over...and to be honest I think they'd probably make a better job of it than the morons who are in there now
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The FEI has not only shown itself to be incompetent with the Belgium / Britain situation either...I see they've now seen fit to increase the number of teams relegated next year to three as well ! The clearly thought this new format out really well when they developed it last year.

I think the Canadians got it right personally when they declined to participate at all...
 
I think an important point is being missed in this discussion. yes the FEI didnt handle it very well and things could have been done an awful lot better, but in making the final decision, they did not make it in isolation. they consulted the rider, organisers and national federations. All the major stakeholders within the sport had input into the decision and therefore that has to be the best decision for the sport globally.

I am of course coming from a different viewpoint to most here, being Irish. but relegation did us no harm at all. Even when we were relegated Dublin still maintained its status.

And i dont see a huge problem with changing a format after a year. You have to try and if you recognise that it could work better then implementing that change is good. Not changing is the more damaging act in my opinion. 10 teams meant a very long contest, and not very TV friendly and lets face it we want our equestrain sport to be more TV friendly.

Being patriotic is great and should be applauded but Superleauge showjumping without Great Britain will not damage the sport, similarly when France or Ireland or Switzerland were relegated. It sounds like relegation is probably best for British Showjumping to shake up the system a bit and get it going again.

As Lucretia said CAS will most likely back the FEI's decision as it involved the major stakeholders and was not a decision in isolation. also it is a practical decision to ensure the financial viability of the shows. It seems sensible to an outside observor, even if it hurts the Brits and the Belgians.
 
The Brits only have themselves to blame, they should have performed better so they didn't put themselves in the relegation zone in the first place.

If as much passion was shown in why we're not achieving, as slating the FEI this wouldn't be an issue as we'd be comfortably through.

I think the only disadvantage of relegation is financial and they should use this as an opportunity to get this sport off its knees.
 
I also suspect that the CAS (if it goes that far) will back up the FEI; especially as they have decided to downsize to 8 teams for the following season. I'm sure they will suggest to the FEI that they don't get the work-experience bod to write the rules this time!
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I think that keeping Hickstead as a Super League show is probably more important in the long run; as long as we can regroup quickly and get a decent, consistent team together.
 
I think Hickstead struggled to raise the sponsorship required to host a Superleague NC last year so it's by no means certain that they'll get one again. On a positive note, if they do, then at least Team GBR get to compete regardless of their status
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How rude of you, and how silly of you to assume you know my total perspective on this. You don't. And before getting on your high horse again about another's use of quotes, it might be advisable for you to check your spelling. It might help you avoid looking ridiculous.
 
and you arent rude then? I have noticed in the past that when people have nothing relevant to say they start harping on about spelling. it might occur to some people that there might be a reason for speling mistakes when people do not use a word processor but that would be too obvious wouldnt it?
Anyway, I have no idea what your perspective is, nor did i claim to, i merely said if you are going to quote, do it in full and in context or else dont bother.
and if you dont like what i say put me on UI. Then of course you wont be able to mis read or mis quote my posts.
 
Can anyone explain the logic of the Promotional League when everyone starts level in Barcelona, so you can have a freak win and get promoted.

The Promotional League 2010 season starts in Athens on 1 October!! Should we send a team?
 
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Can anyone explain the logic of the Promotional League when everyone starts level in Barcelona, so you can have a freak win and get promoted.

The Promotional League 2010 season starts in Athens on 1 October!! Should we send a team?

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Presumably you have to have performed to a certain level throughout the seaon to have gained enough points to be in the top 8/10/whatever to go to Barcelona
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Britain sends teams to non-superleague NC's already...so i don't think much will change there....they might just try and send some stronger teams instead lol!
 
the Promo league works on a points system as rambo said. the top nations come here and then basically have to start again to qualify. Also invited is the top team from the other main league (American continent) hence why canada are here.
you are quite right Duchess that by doing it this way your team can have performed well all season, have one bad day and miss out but when the barcelona CSIO lost superleague status last year they had to offer them something to make up. a Promo league final was it.
previous the last promotional league show was zagreb, which has seen some famous requalifications recently (Switzerland, ireland and last year France) but that is one of the shows which very sadly was unable to meet the FEI's 2009 prize fund demands and does not appear to be running this year, at least not athe required star level.
You do not have to go as a nation to every Promo league show but in case they change the rules again probably better that you do! points mean prizes generally!
and the FEI put in a semi-final like this for the central european world cup league which was even worse, spend all year qualifying, drag yourself to Warsaw in febuary for a semi, in which winning your league only got you last to go in the FIRST round of jumping and so once again if you had one bad day you were out of the world cup. No other area had this semi final thing in all the others you get enough points you qualified for the Final.
I cannot lie about the fact that i wrote an articel about this in a european magazine which was instrumental in starting a dialogue that changed this rule somewhat. I do not believe i will need to do that here, if Spain or Norway dont go through (miles ahead at end of the league) I think they will do enough creating on their own!
 
I may well get shot down for saying this but personally I think regulation maybe a blessing in disguise. Hopefully it will mean a clear out and a rethink of British showjumping.

We have performed well below par this year and to be honest only scraped Olympic qualification at the last minute. Do we actually deserve to be in the premier league of world SJ?!

We have top class riders but our world class horses are few and far between. Lets hope that the powers at be totally revamp the management, training and selection committees and also review the treatment and encouragement of owners.

Marcus Fuchs has shown us what can be done... out with the oldies and get some fresh blood in! It will be our only hope of a medal at 2012 - and perhaps will encourage the supporters along too
 
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The Brits only have themselves to blame, they should have performed better so they didn't put themselves in the relegation zone in the first place.

If as much passion was shown in why we're not achieving, as slating the FEI this wouldn't be an issue as we'd be comfortably through.

I think the only disadvantage of relegation is financial and they should use this as an opportunity to get this sport off its knees.

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I wholeheartedly agree
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I've emailed the FEI with my opinion. Completely agree Rambo - the whole lot should resign forthwith, having made a complete ****-up of the whole Nations Cup situation - both Leagues. Where is the reward for consistency through the season when they start again from zero on Sunday? Canada seems to be the only nation from the non-Europe League to send a team, so presumably they would take their place in the Super League this time should they qualify.
I also made this point to the FEI re the relegated nations:
Top class horses and riders will not be able to compete at the Super League shows and earn valuable prize money and FEI ranking points unless the organisers see fit to invite them. This is demonstrably unfair.

I had a very swift reply from the FEI Communications guy saying he'd passed my email on to the relevant people. I don't expect to hear any more!
 
to be fair only one team form the other league is allowed to send a team ( canada won the right fair and square) and they have riders based over her this summer, so they came. As for whether they will take up their position in the super league should they win one, apparently it hasnt been discussed to the riders knowledge because as they said first they have to win a place!
as for your point about relegated horses and riders, it is only the Nations cups they wont be able to compete in, if they are good enough and ranked high enough they will get invited to super league shows as individuals and also as i have said before i dont think it is that unfair because the super league is after all only eight shows a year and there are dozens of others many with good prize money. Gianni Govoni has not jumped in a Nations Cup hardly all year, he prefers to come to the GCT and he gets invited to more shows than he can go to as he is so high up the ranking. Kevin Staut clawed his way into the top 30 while France, mostly led by him, were competing in prague, ugar, zagreb and Bratislava. the only really big shows he did were the ones his national federation could invite him to, La Baule and Cannes until his ranking got high enough but he made the most of them. So did penelope leprevost while we are talking of the french.
LHS has got it part right I think in her comment above. We seem to think we have some divine right to be in championship level shows. perhaps we just need to put some effort in to achieving it by hard work instead.
 
Thanks for the info about the Canadians. Barcelona thought the FEITV was going to show the Final, but FEITV is not doing anything of the sort. Another own goal?

I don't think most of the show organisers holding Super League events will consider they can afford to invite very many individuals from other countries. Hope I'm proved wrong, not just for the sakes of the riders (I'm not only thinking of the British, but also the top Belgians & Italians) and the fans who want to see them. IT's unfortunate for the top-class riders and their supporters if their team mates haven't been up to the mark on the relevant days, or the selectors haven't chosen the right squad (as Marcus Fuchs said, all that was needed was for Italy to put forward their best quartet for several NCs instead of doing a mix & match) Gianni has indeed not jumped in a NC in either League this year, but as he's a veteran of many European Chaps, Olympics and World Champs, he probably feels entitled to pick and choose the best shows for him. Having competed in all the GCT events he had a great run in the back-up classes, and won a GP but was well outside the top 25 who qualified for the Final in Doha. All credit to Kevin, and don't forget that John, Michael & Nick etc all had to make their way up the ladder in the old days. THere's no such thing as overnight stardom in this game.

I certainly don't think that any nation has any sort of divine right, but as an old-timer I prefer the old days of a more level playing field, as is still the case for WEG.

I am sorry to say that I am not convinced that HRH Princess Haya is the best person for her current FEI role. When competing, she regularly "bought" her way into top-level shows using her eminent status instead of talent. I think she may have retired from more classes than she completed. At least she does attend most major events in her present capacity.
 
Part of me thinks it's good we have dropped as perhaps some money may go on shows here and part of me thinks it is bad as some of the 'top' riders may go to shows that lower ranked riders would go to.

NC seem to be going the same way as 5 day test cricket where crowds are down because it is boring where as 20-20 cricket gets packed out, so perhaps now is time to look at the format to make it more crowd pleasing, perhaps 2 rounds but time and faults with perhaps higher scoring 'joker fences' if they are knocked down and shorter courses. I don't expect the rest of Europe to understand as they don't play cricket. Perhaps we could run some 'team trials' over the summer.

If TS did come on here for a nose it would be interesting to hear his comments ( I thought his comment on the other thread was excellent to put others first when it is a huge disapointment for him). Also staggered that a top rider knows how to use a computer, perhaps he could give some lessons
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