What advantage does a horse have trained by parelli regime v traditional training

Patterdale said:
Pale Rider - just can't help himself can he!?

Has he been given a holiday?
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How can you tell? I see his post was removed but was that by admin (Poor late lamented TFC how I miss typing your name, admin is just so clinical! ;)) or did he have it deleted himself?
 
Must have been new fatty. Has his name gone dark? I'm on the phone.

Pale Rider - I'm not a harpy, and have a strict policy of never slating something unless I know about it.
I know quite as much about Parelli as anyone needs to, thanks!
 
Patterdale said:
Must have been new fatty. Has his name gone dark? I'm on the phone.

Pale Rider - I'm not a harpy, and have a strict policy of never slating something unless I know about it.
I know quite as much about Parelli as anyone needs to, thanks!
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I don't know, where do you look for his name? his post is just gone... trolls could have eaten it I suppose? ;):D

Eta: Found the members list :o His name is gone?
 
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I have watched some more programmes over night, why can I not sleep !!

We all need to have a go at this parelli game.

Horse on a long line, canter on. Place the end of the line beneath your right boot and hold it down, as the horse continues on the circle the line will come round on the ground and you must catch it with your left boot. Continue in canter until all of the line has been caught by alternatively stepping on it with your boot.

Eventually the horse will have spiralled in, remaining in canter, and it's head will be at your hip, the line will be in a neat coil beneath your boots.

I am off to do it with Ted and will report back in due course.

FYI, I prefer red grapes, original flavour lucozade and cadbury chocolate.
 
Or in the case of my horse it will career round like the devil's chasing it and it'll change direction every second turn but only at the 10 o'clock position. The person unlucky enough to be on the end of the rope will have their arms dislocated or be decapitated. Apparently that's a "game"! I wish I hada picture of the 15 feet worth of rope burns my husband endured from the magic rope, that'd be enough to putanyone off.
 
blackandwhite said:
Or in the case of my horse it will career round like the devil's chasing it and it'll change direction every second turn but only at the 10 o'clock position. The person unlucky enough to be on the end of the rope will have their arms dislocated or be decapitated. Apparently that's a "game"! I wish I hada picture of the 15 feet worth of rope burns my husband endured from the magic rope, that'd be enough to putanyone off.
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Sorry, can't help myself... :-))

In Parelli terms that would be referred to as Piss Poor Preparation LOL!
 
Lol I think in anyone's terms it's piss poor! We found it out when we tried to lunge him after we bought him. Proper terrifying. It's universally agreed that it's best just avoided. No wonder his previous owner was petrified of him if that's what she'd been being told was progress. Nuts :D
 
I like Pale Rider. He's posted some thought provoking stuff on here at times.

So Pat Parelli is supremely egotistical, not exactly a trait that's lacking in 'traditional' equestrianism now is it? Of course there's the Catwalk incident, even though the owner (show jumping royalty) was present throughout and the horse was inspected by an independent, on-site vet. And went on to compete.

If some people want to own horses and stay on the ground he's providing them with a means to do it, he's tapped into a huge market. It's a living, I suppose. They don't all stay on the ground though do they?

One last thing PR. If that was a swan song, given the abuse you've taken I have to say, it was a tad restrained old son! ;):D
 
Fellewell said:
So Pat Parelli is supremely egotistical, not exactly a trait that's lacking in 'traditional' equestrianism now is it? Of course there's the Catwalk incident, even though the owner (show jumping royalty) was present throughout and the horse was inspected by an independent, on-site vet. And went on to compete.
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From what I read (which may of course be completely untrue), Catwalk was looked at by two vets, one of whom noted red lesions on his gums consistent with the use of the rope gumline that Parelli used to subdue/distract/train the stallion during the public demo. Judging from the clip put together by Team Parelli after the brouhaha (link below), Pat made progress with bridling, though I haven't seen what he is like to bridle now and/or if his headshyness is completely cured. One would hope so, for the horse's sake, because he must have gone through a lot of unpleasantness, prior to the event, at the hands of the grooms of the owner (show jumping royalty) who apparently resorted to using 'unconventional' means to bridle him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j25pS6ixWk
 
blackandwhite said:
Lol I think in anyone's terms it's piss poor! We found it out when we tried to lunge him after we bought him. Proper terrifying. It's universally agreed that it's best just avoided. No wonder his previous owner was petrified of him if that's what she'd been being told was progress. Nuts :D
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lol, I saw your horse's name, put two and two together and realise I know him :D He "visited" my field one Christmas and New Year, while another of the liveries, a Parelli "expert", worked on him for the owner.

I loved him, I have to say. So did my OH. So did my horse, they were instant pals. For slightly different reasons, so did the three mares in the field (does he currently live with mares?). He had character and spark and bags of personality (NOT horsenality - I'm a psychologist and I shudder every time some made up psychobabble gets touted around). Those of us who didn't Parelli found him no problem at all. If you were clear in your communication and didn't make unreasonable demands, he was no problem at all to handle. I'm very pleased he's found a home more suited to his character :)
 
AdorableAlice said:
I have watched some more programmes over night, why can I not sleep !!

We all need to have a go at this parelli game.

Horse on a long line, canter on. Place the end of the line beneath your right boot and hold it down, as the horse continues on the circle the line will come round on the ground and you must catch it with your left boot. Continue in canter until all of the line has been caught by alternatively stepping on it with your boot.

Eventually the horse will have spiralled in, remaining in canter, and it's head will be at your hip, the line will be in a neat coil beneath your boots.

I am off to do it with Ted and will report back in due course.

FYI, I prefer red grapes, original flavour lucozade and cadbury chocolate.
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A report as promised. I found an extra long rope and anchored Ted to one end and firmly put the other end under my boot. Adorable Alice looked on shaking her head in disbelief and clutching her iphone in case she needed to call the fire brigade.

"Canter on Ted", "you have missed the rope" shouts Alice and sin of sins, Ted is in a four beat canter. Within seconds I am trussed up like an oven ready chicken and break dancing on my head. This not what happened on the TV last night, the horse cantered round Mr Parelli and the rope was in a neat coil on the floor.

"Get help Alice, the gates are unlocked they can get straight in to me" poor Alice gets flustered and rings the local Womens Institute instead of the fire brigade, and tells the lovely ladies that her mummy is doing bondage with Ted and needs help. Oh, the embarrassment, 27 of them turn up, their disappointment was palpable when they saw a hairy black carthorse instead of an adonis.

Can't wait to see what tonights episodes will reveal. I should be out of A and E in time to watch the programmes.
 
I love your posts too aa. I've said it on the Ted thread, & I'll say it again now. Please, please consider writing a book or ten or more.
 
Fellewell said:
Of course there's the Catwalk incident, even though the owner (show jumping royalty) was present throughout and the horse was inspected by an independent, on-site vet. And went on to compete.
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Does any of that justify tying a horse's mouth to his knee in order to force him to accept being bridled, never mind that it was in front of a crowd of several thousand people?

I know plenty of people who could have got that horse to accept a bridle, and believe I am one of them. None of us would tie the horse's leg to its mouth.
 
AdorableAlice said:
A report as promised. I found an extra long rope and anchored Ted to one end and firmly put the other end under my boot. Adorable Alice looked on shaking her head in disbelief and clutching her iphone in case she needed to call the fire brigade.

"Canter on Ted", "you have missed the rope" shouts Alice and sin of sins, Ted is in a four beat canter. Within seconds I am trussed up like an oven ready chicken and break dancing on my head. This not what happened on the TV last night, the horse cantered round Mr Parelli and the rope was in a neat coil on the floor.

"Get help Alice, the gates are unlocked they can get straight in to me" poor Alice gets flustered and rings the local Womens Institute instead of the fire brigade, and tells the lovely ladies that her mummy is doing bondage with Ted and needs help. Oh, the embarrassment, 27 of them turn up, their disappointment was palpable when they saw a hairy black carthorse instead of an adonis.

Can't wait to see what tonights episodes will reveal. I should be out of A and E in time to watch the programmes.
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I think you could make a lot of money if you sell tickets to your next performance :D
 
To answer the Q: the horse trained by parelli has to be submissive.
The horse trained by an experienced horseman will understand who is the leader and what is being asked of him, there is no confusion, no tricks, or the need to resort to bullying if he is not submissive.
A person who takes a parelli course is not, and never will be a horseman.
I saw an inteview with PP, he was asked a few simple Qs, and he was unable to explain his system........ what chance does a horse have?
 
I think we need a Ted meets Hovis story. :D They can discuss the abuse they have suffered at the hands of people determined to disrupt their all important eating time by making them run round in circles.:p
 
Yes, the size of a laptop strapped on complete with a robotic whip. They shift at quite a rate and didn't look like they would go round anyone in the way !
 
cptrayes said:
I know plenty of people who could have got that horse to accept a bridle, and believe I am one of them.
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Oh, I very much doubt it if what Pat Parelli wrote is true: "In over 30 years of public problem-solving, this is without a doubt the most extreme horse I have ever had. In fact he ranks in the top 3 of all challenging horses in my experience."
 
fburton said:
Oh, I very much doubt it if what Pat Parelli wrote is true: "In over 30 years of public problem-solving, this is without a doubt the most extreme horse I have ever had. In fact he ranks in the top 3 of all challenging horses in my experience."
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Yeah, right Mr P, whatever you say!

My problem with parelli (apart from the fact that i always thought naming your training 'games' just sounded very silly off-putting) is that there seems to be an awful lot of hype and showing off and very little actually explaining what it's about and how to do it. Have to say I watched one of Montys Backstage Passes programmes today and it was more of the same. Most parelli trained horses I've seen (depending on their horsinality -sigh) are either completely confused and freaked out, or glazed over and (using my own term) Parellied to Death!

Personally I've found remedial horses who haven't responded to purely traditional methods, respond well to (amongst others - I believe in being open minded enough to use different methods where appropriate) Richard Maxwell's methods, and am, quite honestly, mortified if people think how i train is even remotely like Parelli. Because it's basically just horse sense, they become easy handle by anyone (I wanted to end that sentence "with a bit of savy" but won't, for obvious reasons!)
 
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Well, my 3 ponies have been trained original PNH style since birth and I am happy to allow newbies to ride them, especially if they listen to my guidance - ask lightly, reward correct response etc.....from quite a few of the responses to this thread there is no way I would let you within 50 yards of my horses, let alone ride or handle them!!! It is quite interesting that when my ponies and I are being watched by people who don't understand what I am doing think that my ponies are either 'being naughty' or are 'highly strung and hypo'!!! Which is so far from the truth it is laughable!!!! Personally I have moved on from PNH, but I wouldn't have understood half of what I have learned since if I hadn't learned the basics from PNH.....and when I started PNH it explained WHY I have always done what I did, and WHAT ORDER to do things....which traditional training didn't do....at my into clinic I kept thinking 'that's what ....said' or 'that's what....told me to do'...but none of my original teachers explained why or when to do what they told me to do!! And some of them became very highly qualified in the BHS!!! It's like dismissing Anky for using rollkur without learning her other techniques!!! As for PNH people not riding their ponies - talk about ridiculous!! If you understand the principles you will understand that everything comes to the 7 games.....for an easy example take dressage enter at A working trot X halt salute proceed working trot....that's the yoyo game if you didn't know!! So please take time to think before making snap judgements! And in case you are dismissing me as a 'dope on a rope' I passed my Pony Club A certificate and have been involved with horses and ponies in various ways since 1955!!!!!
 
I think Parelli and many NH methods appeal to people who don't want to be conventional as opposed to traditional methods which can be cliquey and elitist. These methods also allow you to progress quickly in complete confidence (that you know what you are doing) without the real work, sweat and feelings of uselessness which you get with 'traditional' methods.
Traditional methods can be hard work, I don't know anyone who doesn't despair at times or feel useless. Some people just 'get' horses, some don't. Those who don't want to find an easier way, and one which makes them feel good.
It takes a lifetime to be a decent horseman in the real world. In the wierd world of parelli it takes a series of DVDs.
As far as the horse is concerned I can't see any benefits to being trained in a way which will make them ill equipped to be handled by anyone at any point.
 
It does annoy me (not talking about any particular brand) when I've spent good money on DVDs or books and it's just full of cryptic jargon and twaddle, more like an advert of look how good I am but you'll have to cough up more money to find out more..

I love Richard Maxwells books and recently bought Perfect Manners by Kelly Marks and just thought at last a proper comprehensive guide that you can actually relate to and understand! I could have saved a lot of money just buying that one book it's excellent to refer to and offers alternative approaches not just one size fits all.
 
fburton said:
Oh, I very much doubt it if what Pat Parelli wrote is true: "In over 30 years of public problem-solving, this is without a doubt the most extreme horse I have ever had. In fact he ranks in the top 3 of all challenging horses in my experience."
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I assume this is tongue in cheek fburton :D ?

If not, then I'll repeat that I am absolutely certain that I could have got that horse which I saw on that video both in the ring and in the later training to accept a bridle.

Top three of all challenging horses? Don't be daft. It was already well handled and was leading quietly into an arena full of spectators.

It he thinks that horse is a top three a challenge, he doesn't have the experience he claims to! A top three horse would have tried to kill him, it certainly wouldn't have stood quietly with its mouth tied to its knee.
 
Alyth said:
It is quite interesting that when my ponies and I are being watched by people who don't understand what I am doing think that my ponies are either 'being naughty' or are 'highly strung and hypo'!!!
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I am baffled as to how anyone could make this mistake with a horse which was behaving as you want it to :confused:. On the other hand, if you want your horses to behave in such a way that they are easily mistaken for being naughty or hypo, then that's not something which I would want to learn to do with mine :confused:
 
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