What advice would you give me? (Another WWYD)

louf

louf

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Hi all,
I don't post much, but lurk a lot, and now I have a query that I can't answer alone. It is quite a long story, so bare with me!
I have had my mare for 4 and a half years, and about 16 months ago she was diagnosed with kissing spines - she has always been a bit quirky and had a habit of broncing for no obvious reason, but for a few months before diagnosis she was really unhappy, bolting with me and behaving much worse, both when being lunged and ridden. She had injections first, which didn't work, and then the op in June last year. I spent from June last year to January this year rehabbing her and she came back into work really nicely - she was much happier, worked better on the lunge and I began schooling her properly in January with really positive results. She has had regular physio and hasn't been pushed hard at all. I was really pleased with her progress.
In February, (during a winter of virtually no turn-out) her behaviour became erratic again and she began broncing, as well as becoming really girthy and quite aggressive when tacked up. I persevered for a few weeks, but nothing improved so I stopped riding her and got the vet out. The vet said it was probably ulcers and that she needed more turnout first of all to see if that was the problem. At the beginning of April I moved yards (back to my old yard) and turned her out for 2 weeks to allow her to be a grazing horse, and to see if her behaviour changed. She chilled out almost immediately so after a fortnight I started to lunge her. The first time I lunged her she seemed lame, but I left her a day or two to see if it was just stiffness due to lack of work. She was still lame, particularly on the left rein in lunge. Not on the flat in a straight line either in trot or walk, but definitely on the lunge.
To cut a long story short, I have had the vet out and x-rays, nerve blocking and box-rest/bute trials for the last 10 weeks with no change at all. Yesterday she went to horsepital and had the full lameness workout with ultrasound and x-rays as well as more nerve-blocks.
She has a hole in her right hind suspensory. A hole...!!! I am absolutely gutted. The rehab is 8-16 weeks of box rest with in-hand walking only, then, dependent on her response, 16 weeks ridden work in walk only. 6 months rehab. I have barely ridden her in 16 months and now another 6 months. They can't guarantee she will be anything other than a happy hacker. I am going up to the hospital today for more in-depth discussion but I don't know what to do anymore. She is 12 years old, an ID x.
I can't afford to keep her as a field ornament and I am struggling with it all hugely at the moment - I know this is all new information and massively shocking, but I just don't know what to do.
I also feel extremely emotional about it.
Sorry to pour all this out but I just wanted to hear others' points of view if possible.
Thanks for reading this far...
:)
 
That sounds hugely stressful!

A lady at my yard is going through the exact same thing - her horse had/has a hole in its suspensory and she is on the tail end of rehab. She said it's been absolutely gruelling and very boring.

If it were me I'd PTS. I have a cut-off point with horses in terms of how much time and money I'm willing to invest and this would be too much for me, for a horse who is still unproven. They're too big and expensive to be overly sentimental and unrealistic about. If it were a special horse to me, or if I had my own land it would be massively different.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.
 
So sorry to hear your having a rubbish time. By the sounds of it the discussion today at horsepital will be of great benefit. Just keep an open mind and be honest about your situation and how best to proceed. I suppose ultimately it would depend on what you wanted to do- do you want to be a happy hacker or do you aspire for more?
All the best today!
 
If you don't want a field ornament/ light hack which in reality even after 6 months is all she is likely to be then I would get out before spending more money, energy and emotion on her, the KS will not benefit from weeks on box rest so all your previous work may be undone as well not to mention if she has ulcers box rest is probably going to make them flare up, you could be in more of a tricky situation in a couple of months.
 
If it were me and I genuinely dont think I would have done that much with her anyway but if i was now faced with this I would not subject her to any more box rest and would call it a day! Sorry x
 
Being and ID fan myself, I assume she has a good temperament. I know you can't afford for her to be a companion, but perhaps there is someone out there who would love her to keep theirs company. If she is able to live a comfortable life turnout out, then I would have thought that was the answer. Maybe someone here needs a kind horse for theirs. I personally wouldn't/couldn't pts, but that's just me.
 
What are your initial thoughts on it? We could all tell you things that we would or wouldn’t do but what’s your own personal gut feeling?
 
Bellalily said:
Being and ID fan myself, I assume she has a good temperament. I know you can't afford for her to be a companion, but perhaps there is someone out there who would love her to keep theirs company. If she is able to live a comfortable life turnout out, then I would have thought that was the answer. Maybe someone here needs a kind horse for theirs. I personally wouldn't/couldn't pts, but that's just me.
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Sadly this attitude is how and why terrible things happen to these lovely but broken horses. There is no right or wrong answer and I'm not knocking you for being unable to PTS a broken horse but PTS is not a welfare issue. Going to a couple of companion homes who quickly forget why she is a companion and all of a sudden you start looking at her ending with a dodgy dealer or at a sales doped with bute or ending up with the meat man is a welfare issue :( This is such a common occurrence all because people dont take responsibility and pts!
 
Antw23uk said:
Sadly this attitude is how and why terrible things happen to these lovely but broken horses. There is no right or wrong answer and I'm not knocking you for being unable to PTS a broken horse but PTS is not a welfare issue. Going to a couple of companion homes who quickly forget why she is a companion and all of a sudden you start looking at her ending with a dodgy dealer or at a sales doped with bute or ending up with the meat man is a welfare issue :( This is such a common occurrence all because people dont take responsibility and pts!
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This. A quick trawl on the ‘Dodgy Dealers’ page on FB reveals many horses who have wound up with unsuspecting buyers after being ‘sold’ as ‘companions’ or ‘light hacks’. Unless you can categorically guarantee that this would not happen to your horse, your most responsible option in terms of welfare is to retain full control of its future - either by following the rehab process or by PTS.

I would suggest you have a very frank conversation with your vet and lay all the options on the table. This will help to direct you down the path that suits both of you.
 
equi said:
What are your initial thoughts on it? We could all tell you things that we would or wouldn’t do but what’s your own personal gut feeling?
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My initial thought is PTS - for the reasons that others have given - e.g. 8-16 weeks box rest will not do her back any good and I am not sure I can go through the rehab again just for her to be a happy hacker. She was meant to be my forever horse and I have really not been able to do much with her, especially over the last 2 years, and if I'm honest I would like the opportunity to do more than just hack - even if I don't do it I would like to be able to know that I can, if that makes sense. It just breaks my heart as she is such a good girl and I adore her, but I can't afford her to be a field ornament, and I particularly don't want her to go to somewhere as a companion where she may be passed from pillar to post and sold on as a riding horse or worse.
 
Well if that’s your own thoughts I’m quite willing to support you, for all the reasons stated. It’s not a simple boxrest solution for her as she has so many other things going on too that boxrest will aggravate. Have the chat with your vet, be honest about what feelings you are having and if they agree you can consider it.
 
twiggy2 said:
If she is quiet in the field and she could live out for the summer, I would turn her away and rescan in 4 months, if ready to work great, if not PTS but I won't do box rest for tendons etc especially for horses with KS history and suspected ulcers.
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I do the above and would try Dr Green over the summer, find a cheaper grass livery option and see what she's like in September. You have invested a lot and there's no real harm in trying a rest. I retired my eventer with suspensory issues (having done one round of box rest and vets advice to the letter which lasted about 3 months) and a year of turnout he was sounder than he'd ever been.
 
One of mine had a hole in his suspensory about 3 years ago they gave him prp treatment and he had 5 months box rest, and he was sound and the scan showed the hole had virtually gone I brought him back into work very slowly and his been ok he is sometimes a bit stiff on it but works through it.

So it's not all doom and gloom they can fix ! In my experience an injury like this needs more than just box rest I would speak to your vet about prp or any other procedures that will give the injury a better chance of healing.
 
There are worse fates than PTS. There is every possibility that you could rehab the mare and I am sure there will be countless people who have overcome such an injury; there will also be countless people who haven't been able to over come it, and the same again who wouldn't/couldn't put their horse through it for a variety of reasons. No-one will look upon you any differently for making the call to PTS, not only because it's a gruelling process for both horse and human, and there is a pre-existing injury which requires contradictory management, but also because you have done a hell of a lot for this mare, and you have had enough. That is just as valid a reason.

So go with your gut and I wish you all the best in whatever you decide to do.
 
It is hard to say without knowing your mare but it sounds as though she has been through it and is probably never going to be ridden by you with confidence that nothing is wrong/is about to go wrong. My own view is that animals don't know death but they do know suffering, and endless box rest, investigations in hospital etc are not enjoyed by any horse. If she is of the sweetest disposition pts is going to be doubly hard for you, I am so sorry.
 
Antw23uk said:
Sadly this attitude is how and why terrible things happen to these lovely but broken horses. There is no right or wrong answer and I'm not knocking you for being unable to PTS a broken horse but PTS is not a welfare issue. Going to a couple of companion homes who quickly forget why she is a companion and all of a sudden you start looking at her ending with a dodgy dealer or at a sales doped with bute or ending up with the meat man is a welfare issue :( This is such a common occurrence all because people dont take responsibility and pts!
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That's true enough sadly. I'm just an eternal optimist. :) Still far too trusting of people, which is why I end up in the most idiotic of situations :D
 
twiggy2 said:
If she is quiet in the field and she could live out for the summer, I would turn her away and rescan in 4 months, if ready to work great, if not PTS but I won't do box rest for tendons etc especially for horses with KS history and suspected ulcers.
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I would too.
 
I have been where you are. Kissing spine surgery followed by what turned out to be reoccurring suspensory injuries. I spent 3 years in a cycle of rehab, re-injure. Mine did better turned out 6 months at a time for rehab and I did once get her back competing where she had been at elementary. For 2 months....I love her to death but would I do it if I had my time again? Sadly no. It’s soul destroying trying to be on that roller coaster. Mine is now a companion I pay £20 week for her grazing and her field mates owner looks after like a queen. I am very lucky but her companion is 26 and when he goes she will be PTS and I know I will have done the right thing for her. Time is precious and being the wrong side of 50 realise now I’ll never get it back.
 
You would need to box rest the suspensory in a very large stable and feed the horse by putting fibre cubes in one of snack ball things the rolling of the ball about mobilises the back so would help with the KS issues there’s lots you can do for the back on box rest by using passive stretching you just need a good Physio to teach you.
The question is is that what you want to do if you don’t I would have no issue with PTS if you can’t keep the horse yourself .
I would not pass her on .
 
I am so sorry for you and your horse....I have one that has PSD in both hinds and KS (diagnosed after 6 months box rest and rehab for PSD), but as I am lucky enough to have my own land so he is a field ornament. He will remain as a field ornament for as long as he is comfortable..then he will be PTS - so far he's managed 8 years! I am aware the decision is getting closer as he can be hopping lame for a few strides after he has been lying down, but at the moment he is able to 'walk it off'. If he also had ulcers I would think that is was time to PTS.....heartbreaking and difficult though that is - quality of life is far more important than quantity of life.
 
I don't have any advice to offer as I think it's all been covered...but I do think you need to be brutally honest with yourself and go with your gut instinct.
Such a tough decision to make :( xx
 
Thank you all so much for your replies. I have a lot of thinking to do - my lovely yard owner has given me some really good suggestions and loads of support so all is not lost! Luckily she is not the sort of mare to worry about not being worked for weeks on end - as long as she has food and a scratch occasionally she’s fine. She’s so easy I am very lucky in that way! :)
 
louf said:
Thank you all so much for your replies. I have a lot of thinking to do - my lovely yard owner has given me some really good suggestions and loads of support so all is not lost! Luckily she is not the sort of mare to worry about not being worked for weeks on end - as long as she has food and a scratch occasionally she’s fine. She’s so easy I am very lucky in that way! :)
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Ask the vet how long a box rest is essential twelve weeks passes quickly , and I do believe there’s lots you can do to help the back during that time .
They may also allow you to do some in hand grazing from the start this would be good for the back .
 
TBH, I would have been unlikely to have had the KS operation. Now, unless the horse can be turned away, rather than box-rested, I would probably pts. I am of the opinion that quality of life is more important than quantity.
 
I'm another who doesn't do box rest. Mine did her hind suspensories about 8 years ago. She was chucked in the field for a long time and brought back in slowly. She has had issues higher up with stabilizing her pelvis so rehab was slow not helped by the fact she is an utter fruit cake. She is now back doing endurance including race rides but we have stuck to 80k mainly because to do longer you are looking at FEI rides and above that they carry over 70kg which as she isn't big I wouldn't expect her to do. A frank chat with the vet may be in order. They are a nightmare and if I only had one I don't know what I would have done.
 
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