What are your thoughts on this story (horse prosthetics)

If it could be done successfully and be successful in the long term racing would have done it. Not for your bog standard horses no. But for your big money bloodstock. They tried with Barbaro - he shattered a hind pastern. They tried to put it back together with various bits of metal and plastic. All that resulted in was an incredibly lame, unhappy, laminitic horse who got pts over a year later than he should have been. Should they not have tried? No, they should have tried at the very least because it evolves veterinary science. Now they know it doesn't work they won't try it again. If it had worked then amazing! The horse would have gone on to have a great stud career and you would have learnt a lot more about injuries and the possibilities.

In Ireland Coolmore did kind of the same but to a Canon bone - rebuilt the bone with other bits and pieces. He was a month away from being turned out in a field. He had been walking fine, building up muscle etc. And then he colicked. And that was that. So from that you learned that some things can be fixed to an extent but the process is a very long one. And we do not know the long term outcome ie years down the line.

I do draw the line at prosthetic limbs for such large animals though. Its one thing remodeling bones with added stuff it's another taking away a limb entirely and replacing it with an inanimate object that has no feeling to it.
 
It’s absolutely barbaric.

So many sequelae from amputations. Contralateral limb laminitis, pressure sores on the stump, phantom limb pain, Whole body compensatory muscle pain.

In horses you are depriving them of the inherent ability to flee.

It makes my sick to think that people are so selfish they would put a ‘beloved’ horse through this torture.
 
I was about to say that 'boundary-pushing' vets have a lot to answer for
But I guess that in the early days of colic surgery there were many more failures than successes, and people might have thought it barbaric

Whatever; I don't know how an owner can prefer to see their beloved horse peg-legging around than allow them a dignified end, with memories of a whole and healthy horse to treasure
 
Casey76 said:
It’s absolutely barbaric.

So many sequelae from amputations. Contralateral limb laminitis, pressure sores on the stump, phantom limb pain, Whole body compensatory muscle pain.

In horses you are depriving them of the inherent ability to flee.

It makes my sick to think that people are so selfish they would put a ‘beloved’ horse through this torture.
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I kind of feel the same about giving animals chemotherapy. It’s bad enough for a human to go through when they have a choice and are able to weigh up the potential benefits, but at least they know why they’re going through it.
 
stormox said:
A horse near me when I lived in Northants had one - from below the knee.
Too much strain was on the other leg and it contracted laminitis and was put down not long after.
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Im sure this must be the same horse I went to see at a yard many years ago.
I won’t comment as I went on a professional basis.
Personally I wouldn’t put my horses through it.
 
It's really interesting as this was posted on my counties horsey Facebook page and my gut reaction was absolutely not.

It was interesting that people thought the same but even more people thought it was amazing and the people who didn't were called out as being negative and obviously didn't love their horses and would probably PTS rather than keep their horses going.

Obviously this struck several chords and it was no surprise that some of the pro comments were the same people that bullied me about my "choice" to put J to sleep.

Also a lady whose husband had a prosthetic leg said she would never do it as he is in pain most of the time, has phantom pains as well and also can take it off as it rubs and causes sore points.
 
i couldnt watch the video, the still picture was bad enough. i dont watch fitzpatrick because i think owners want too much done just so they can keep the pet longer, i dont believe many of these decisions are made for the benefit of the animal.. havent they heard of QUALITY of life? i also cant stand it when those poor dogs have wheels, what happens when they want to wee or poo? PTS isnt the worst that can happen IMO
 
cauda equina said:
It's a photo of an alert horse, looking at something
It's a bit of a stretch imo to say that he looks happy
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ah, well I based my comment having looked at quite a few pics/videos of him not just the one on the link.

So if this isn't acceptable (and I am not saying it is or it isn't) how do you (people in general) reconcile everything else we do to horses that could be just as painful (if this is) and unacceptable? If this is unacceptable and the horse should have been PTS should a lot of the other instances also to save horses from suffering?
 
paddy555 said:
ah, well I based my comment having looked at quite a few pics/videos of him not just the one on the link.

So if this isn't acceptable (and I am not saying it is or it isn't) how do you (people in general) reconcile everything else we do to horses that could be just as painful (if this is) and unacceptable? If this is unacceptable and the horse should have been PTS should a lot of the other instances also to save horses from suffering?
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oh ok I had only seen the one on the link
 
paddy555 said:
ah, well I based my comment having looked at quite a few pics/videos of him not just the one on the link.

So if this isn't acceptable (and I am not saying it is or it isn't) how do you (people in general) reconcile everything else we do to horses that could be just as painful (if this is) and unacceptable? If this is unacceptable and the horse should have been PTS should a lot of the other instances also to save horses from suffering?
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Some of it, like soring, can't be justified and absolutely should not happen. Things like rollkur and badly fitting saddles shouldn't happen either but at least they are not permanent. That horse will have to wear the prosthetic *all the time* with no possibility of rest from it. My amputee aunt has to take Gabapentin to control the nerve pain from the phantom leg, why would anyone want their horse to have to take strong meds in order to just exist. Where is the quality of life for this horse?
 
TheHairyOne said:
Utterly not with how thats fitted.

However, there is some interesting work with small animals implanting titanium rods into the bone to remove the pressure sore and fitting issues. Maybe that will one day benefit people.
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The biggest difference between cats/dogs versus horses, besides the size difference, is that unlike cats/dogs, horses are flight animals. So even if they do lie down, they're probably more likely to want to feel that they're able to just get up, and run away if they feel that they need to. Which it seems unlikely that they'll be able to do with a prosthetic leg like the one in the picture.

But like TheHairyOne, I, too, think that the prosthetics which is actually connected through titanium rods/screws to the skeletal bones are interesting. They seem to be much more closer to imitate nature, so if it had been my cat or dog, I'm not sure, maybe I would consider a prosthetic of that type.

However, I've seen a documentary about an Elephant rescue, where the founder was so enthusiastic, and proud over that some of their elephants had prosthetic legs. Even though it feels wrong that the elephants should have to be euthanised due to injuries from stepping on land mines, or getting caught in illegal hunting snares, I thought it mostly didn't feel right to see them stand or carefully walk around their not that large enclosures, or carefully walk while being taken out on walks.
They looked very well taken cared of, but I have to say that the few times I've seen elephants in Swedish zoos, they've seemed happier, and more active.
 
I can sort of understand the emotional attachment of the owner who loves their horse and can't bear to lose it and the prospect of saving it blinding them to the consequences- but it is the duty of the vet to "first do no harm" and explain to the owner when a proceeding will affect quality of life / cause suffering and not just take their money.
 
paddy555 said:
ah, well I based my comment having looked at quite a few pics/videos of him not just the one on the link.

So if this isn't acceptable (and I am not saying it is or it isn't) how do you (people in general) reconcile everything else we do to horses that could be just as painful (if this is) and unacceptable? If this is unacceptable and the horse should have been PTS should a lot of the other instances also to save horses from suffering?
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There is lots which goes on in the name of treatment which should be discouraged imho. A lot of people keep their acutely laminitic horses going far longer than what I would consider humane.

I know of a horse who fractured their shoulder and was kept on 24/7 box rest for 6 months before he was euthanize after he developed laminitis. The last photos of him were heart breaking as he has lost so much weight and muscle, he looked emaciated.

Another horse spent almost 2 years out of their 7 year life on box rest after injuring ligaments in three legs in succession, including one period of 6 months where she was sedated every single day so she wouldn’t fuss when the others were getting breakfast and being turned out. The horse was retired to be a broodmare after being unable to be rehabbed back to riding after damaging her SI joint.

A top physiotherapist in France is currently treating a horse who has fractured her femur. The horse requires a harness to keep it standing and to take some of the weight bearing load off the leg.

Horses live in the now, don’t perceive the future, don’t understand that the pain their in now will (may) get better over time. To be a prey animal and in acute unending pain must be absolutely horrific.
 
TPO said:
Look at the televised nonsense about "saving" animals that is promoted on our mainstream TV.

Some vets clearly want to push the boundaries of what they can do & what can be done. The best interests of the animal are not he number one priority as they should be.

Edited because I forgot my actual point.

Just because something can be done, prescribed or administered by a vet I wouldn't use that as an ethical or moral compass.
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not to mention the added pressure for owners to spend thousands in the hope their animal will live.

I can remember one programme. Staffie had something wrong with it’s leg. Two or three operations hadn’t fixed it, and the poor thing was in pain.

the fourth operation was to amputate. If they’d have done that to start with, would have been better for the dog, and cost an awful lot less
 
Rowreach said:
I kind of feel the same about giving animals chemotherapy. It’s bad enough for a human to go through when they have a choice and are able to weigh up the potential benefits, but at least they know why they’re going through it.
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I felt like that and I wouldn't have chemo for myself therefore it seemed logical for me to refuse for my animals. I worked on the basis that the side effects they would have would be exactly the ones I would suffer.

Then push came to shove and vet advised that in his opinion it was very likely my horse was going to require chemo. I was unhappy and he explained in detail and it wasn't going to produce the side effects that it would have done in humans. I should not extrapolate humans to my horse. The lab report came back and to everyone's amazement chemo was not required. However if it had been required I would have gone ahead.

I think there are very few horses that would mentally cope with the prothesis, most likely pure bred arabs. At the same time I don't think we should transfer human thoughts and feelings to horses.

There are comments about mental stress and prey animals. What about people who keep their horses stabled 24/7 in winter. Those who stable and turnout is a tiny paddock with individual turn out. The horse cannot indulge it's instincts to be able to gallop if frightened, nor it's instincts for horse company.

What I find far more distressing, since FL brought them up, are animals in zoos. That sort of captivity is no place for wild animals. They are not pets yet it is OK to restrict them. I remember the last zoo I went to (I would never go again) had Colybus monkeys in a tiny cage.

It is difficult to say this should not be allowed, made illegal as many seem to want yet so much else goes on apparently quite happily.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Things like rollkur and badly fitting saddles shouldn't happen either but at least they are not permanent.
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you mean when the rider gets off all is well but is that really the case? I would suggest that if you say have an overweight/unbalanced rider flopping around on a poorly fitting saddle for long periods of time (let's say a day's hunting) repeating this exercise they are going to cause underlying pain and damage. You may not be able to see it, you may assume that once they dismount it is going and problem solved but is that really the case? The only damage you may see is the broken skin and the white hair when it has healed. You cannot see the internal bruising yet the horse may continually feel this each time it is saddled and ridden.

`I am not saying the prothesis is right or wrong just that whilst everyone is instantly condemning it there are lots of other things the horse suffers which are apparently acceptable even though they may be in daily pain.
 
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