What do i do!?

[allaboutponies]

Hi all, I have a young 5 y/o with no ridden career. Never been backed. Rescued as a baby. Always been a colicky pony and multiple cases of spasmodic colic over the years. 1 case of impaction colic. All dealt with at home. Has had high elevated liver results for thr last 2 years. But significantly worse this year. Biopsy was inconclusive. Bloods came down to a more appropriate level(although still v high) after 15 weeks of steorids.

Intermittent lameness hind legs, mostly left side. Stifles injected January/February time.

Laminitis prone although not had an active case. Wears a grazing muzzle at all times when turned out. Out during the day, in at night. Adlib soaked hay.

Suspected ulcers now... Cribs now and then but not constantly or regularly. Very sensitive to touch the right side of her belly and is often caught biting at her belly.

She can typically be very bitey and quite nasty about it. Will put ears back and just go for you and bite.

Vet wasn't very happy about my wanting to scope and kind of dismissed it.

What do i do now?

Friends have mentioned pts. But I am completely at a loss.

All advice welcome. Thanks in advance

 

[rabatsa]

She sounds to be uncomfortable and going to be a money pit. There are worse things than pts.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

She sounds to be uncomfortable and going to be a money pit. There are worse things than pts.

Absolutely this.

 

[holeymoley]

That’s a very young age to have such a bleak outlook. Could she possibly have pssm? It’s a lot to manage and it will be for years to come. I don’t think anyone could say pts would be a bad decision.

 

[ycbm]

I agree, I would PTS. Sorry you are facing a decision like that with such a young pony, but it seems for the best.
.

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

She doesn’t sound like she’s having much quality of life. Looking forward, I don’t see her having a comfortable happy fulfilled life, even as a field ornament. I’m sorry, I’d also be thinking pts.

 

[allaboutponies]

I must admit, I definitely agree there are worse things that being PTS.
I have 1 fear.. that I will bring pts up with my vet and they will refuse/not agree. In which case I would not know what to do.

I do agree, she does not seem happy and there is clearly something causing her pain at one time or another. Grooming is a thing of the past as it seems to cause her pain. she turns V agressive with biting when this is done.

She breaks my heart, she is my one in a million. Although she is typically very bitey I do believe this is a pain response. She will also stand for hours and be kissed and cuddles and given scratches.

any further advise would be greatfully recieved! Thankyou!

 

[allaboutponies]

That’s a very young age to have such a bleak outlook. Could she possibly have pssm? It’s a lot to manage and it will be for years to come. I don’t think anyone could say pts would be a bad decision.

what is PSSM please? i have heard a few people speak about it?

 

[ycbm]

You do not need the agreement of a vet. There are hunts and other licensed people who do pts really well, with great care and kindness to horse and owner.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

You present the whole picture to your vet, maybe even print out your 1st post above.
It's extremely unlikely they will refuse, given all the issues you mention. A knacker will not even ask, they will turn up when booked to dispatch.
I take it you are not insured?

 

[allaboutponies]

You do not need the agreement of a vet. There are hunts and other licensed people who do pts really well, with great care and kindness to horse and rider.

Hi, thankyou for your message! I have witness horses being pts by bullet and this is not something i would consider unfortunately. Nothing against them personally but just not something i could opt for.

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Locally, we have a knackerman. I am told they come and pts, no questions asked. They are extremely experienced and are who the vet calls to remove the body anyway. I still waver over whether I want him sedated first then injected or use the knackerman and his bolt gun. So if your vet won’t pts (but I imagine they would, they’ve experienced her issues and know she’s unlikely to come right, surely?) then investigate the local hunt or knackerman if you decide on pts.

 

[holeymoley]

There’s a lot of threads about it on here. I don’t have any first hand experience of it I’m afraid so not the one to ask. In cases I know personally it presented as colic/tying up on a regular basis until bloods were done.

 

[allaboutponies]

You present the whole picture to your vet, maybe even print out your 1st post above.
It's extremely unlikely they will refuse, given all the issues you mention. A knacker will not even ask, they will turn up when booked to dispatch.
I take it you are not insured?

She is indeed insured but.. not covered for liver issues, hind limb lameness or colic so not very useful unfortunatley!

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

You can ask the vet for bloods to be done for pssm. If you search it on here, there are lots of posts.

 

[ycbm]

This doesn't sound anything like PSSM to me, it would be unusual to show like that at that age in an unridden horse.

You can blood test for muscle enzymes, biopsy bum muscle, and you can hair test for DNA.
.

 

[allaboutponies]

This doesn't sound anything like PSSM to me, it would be unusual to show like that at that age in an unridden horse.

You can blood test for muscle enzymes, biopsy bum muscle, and you can hair test for DNA.
.

I would do anything for her, but i am hesistant to put her through anymore investigations. she has been through enough painful tests and procedures.

 

[allaboutponies]

Thankyou all for your replies, theyve been very helpful.

I think now my question is.. 1) can a vet refuse a request for Pts? 2) how would i go about this conversation with my Veterinarian?

 

[ycbm]

Thankyou all for your replies, theyve been very helpful.

I think now my question is.. 1) can a vet refuse a request for Pts? 2) how would i go about this conversation with my Veterinarian?

Yes the vet can refuse but a knacker man won't even question it.

You tell the vet you think she's had enough, in pain, and you aren't prepared to continue investigations/treatment and can you please book a date for pts.

A vet will cost over £400, a knacker man £200 or less, and many of us on the forum prefer the gun to the needle for our horses, because of its speed.

 

[ycbm]

You are making a very hard and very sensible decision here, give yourself a pat on the back.
.

 

[holeymoley]

With the history and the general prognosis at such a young age I really can’t see how a vet could refuse to pts.

 

[allaboutponies]

Yes the vet can refuse but a knacker man won't even question it.

You tell the vet you think she's had enough, in pain, and you aren't prepared to continue investigations/treatment and can you please book a date for pts.

A vet will cost over £400, a knacker man £200 or less, and many of us on the forum prefer the gun to the needle for our horses, because of its speed.

Thankyou very much for your honesty

 

[allaboutponies]

You are making a very hard and very sensible decision here, give yourself a pat on the back.
.

I feel awful for even thinking and discussing it. But it is breaking my heart that she cannot live out 24/7 and be a field ornament but that she is also evidently unhappy in her current routine which is the safest for her health wise. And basic tasks like grooming causes her pain

 

[MereChristmas]

Many of us have had to make a similar decision and have come to this forum for help. There has always been sympathy and support.
We understand.
To repeat a much used quote used in these circumstances
Better a day too soon than a day too late

 

[Equi]

Sounds not unlike a little coblet I had a sad day with at last yard. He too was a rescue from a yellow field basically and he took a bad twist colic and the vet ultra sounded to see if they could see anything and they could only see his liver which was approx 3 times the size it should have been, which had then pushed the guts out of the way basically. There was no hope for him unfortunately.

a bad start can and does make a poorly horse and sometimes you just can’t fix them.

 

[allaboutponies]

Sounds not unlike a little coblet I had a sad day with at last yard. He too was a rescue from a yellow field basically and he took a bad twist colic and the vet ultra sounded to see if they could see anything and they could only see his liver which was approx 3 times the size it should have been, which had then pushed the guts out of the way basically. There was no hope for him unfortunately.

a bad start can and does make a poorly horse and sometimes you just can’t fix them.

So sorry to hear this, but yes your right. When they scanned her liver for the biopsy they said it was very big and scarred.

 

[Trouper]

While you are doing your very best for her, it does not sound as if she is at all comfortable or enjoying her life. She cannot even enjoy the life of a field ornament if her grazing has to be so restricted and the prognosis for any sort of sustained improvement seems low. I would be saying all of that to the vet and I think you might find that they will readily agree with you. So often, owners are keen to keep ploughing on trying everything to make things better that vets don't want to be the ones to say it is time until the owner does.
I agree with you that I would want the vet to pts by injection for preference, but if there were no other option I would choose the hunt as, over and above my wishes, comes the welfare of the horse.
I am so sorry for you having to contemplate this with such a young horse.

 

[Regandal]

Poor pony, she doesn’t sound happy.
Whilst keeping pts as an option in mind, I’d be tempted to try fenugreek powder, it coats the gut. Cheap and won’t harm her. You have my sympathy x

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

This is so sad but unfortunately I have seen this outcome many times over with rescue horses.

I used to volunteer in horse rescue, and unfortunately some rescues will spend thousand of euros saving the life of one young horse or pony that is already severely damaged physically or mentally or both, with no real hope of a healthy and happy long term outlook.

Long term they often find themselves rehomed in a lovely new home with good hearted people like yourself that end up ploughing yet more money and heartbreak trying to ensure the rescue animal has a happy life, and also have to almost inevitably make the heart breaking decision to PTS.

I know many wont agree with me - but I truly believe for kindness sake a good 75 per cent of 'rescues' should be humanely PTS and use donations on those that have a good chance of recovery and a healthy future.

I really am sorry for you OP and I think you are making the correct decision both for the pony and for yourself. do not feel guilty for one moment you have done the very best you could.

 

[windand rain]

As I would never use a vet for PTS unless he was on the spot I can assure you the bullet is fastest and kindest. That said PTS is the best option for a clearly damaged youngster as above rescues often come from being starved in ragwort infested field that is permanent and untreatable damage so a very wise decision indeed