What do i do!?

[southerncomfort]

I doubt very much that your vet will refuse. Their are very strong ethical grounds for PTS. With some vets, they may think it is the best option but are reticent to suggest it while the owner is keen to keep trying.

Have the conversation with the vet. I'm sure it will be easier than you think.

 

[rascal]

I would also pts, sounds like she is in pain. Think your vet will probably agree.

 

[dorsetladette]

I'm in agreeance with others. I think PTS is the kindest thing to do for both you and the horse.

 

[Dexter]

This doesn't sound anything like PSSM to me, it would be unusual to show like that at that age in an unridden horse.

You can blood test for muscle enzymes, biopsy bum muscle, and you can hair test for DNA.
.

It sounds very like it to me. Please test her before you PTS

 

[Ranyhyn]

I must admit, I definitely agree there are worse things that being PTS.
I have 1 fear.. that I will bring pts up with my vet and they will refuse/not agree. In which case I would not know what to do.

I do agree, she does not seem happy and there is clearly something causing her pain at one time or another. Grooming is a thing of the past as it seems to cause her pain. she turns V agressive with biting when this is done.

She breaks my heart, she is my one in a million. Although she is typically very bitey I do believe this is a pain response. She will also stand for hours and be kissed and cuddles and given scratches.

any further advise would be greatfully recieved! Thankyou!

I had a fabulous 8yo sports horse knocked on the head that the vet said could retire as a field ornament. In these cases I am sure you will not find resistance. Sure if it was a healthy horse but mine wasn't and yours is not. Good luck, horrible situation

 

[SEL]

Do you want to do more investigations or is your heart telling you it's enough now?

If you asked the vet what would they do next then I think that can give you a clue as to whether they'd support you.

 

[Ambers Echo]

It's incredibnly hard to PTS when there is no diagnosis and therefore no prognosis either. My vet never raised PTS with me either re my daughter's pony but was alwas offering the next option and the next and the next. With vague symptoms and lots of options there is no real end to the ability to keep looking for one thing or another. It was my daughter who had the courage to to take a step back and say 'she's miserable and she is getting worse over time not better'. As soon as I raised PTS with my vet he was incredibly supportive and said he felt it was the right decision as overall it was a deteriorating picutre despite 15 months of effort including hospital admssion. She was only 6. I doubt very much your vet will question it at all. I am so sorry you are in this position.

 

[dorsetladette]

If you asked the vet what would they do next then I think that can give you a clue as to whether they'd support you.

When I had to have my old boy PTS my vet gave me all the options she could think of to fix his shoulder (broken shoulder after a kick in the field). We went through the recovery and what the prognosis would be. Then I ask her 'if he were yours what would you do?' she said she wasn't allowed to answer' that told me enough. He was 24 and had never had a lame day in his life - we PTS 20 mins later. sometimes its not what your vet says but how they say it.

 

[Sprig]

If you think your vet might refuse to pts, or even just be difficult about it, hence making the situation even more miserable for you why don't you contact the local hunt kennels/fallen stock company. I was in a very similar situation to you. I kept him for a few years as a field ornament, he was never really quite right. My vet was keen to try all sorts. I wasn't. In the end he clearly wasn't sound even in the field so I had a fallen stock company come and pts. The relief of making the decision was almost instant and I still feel guilty that I didn't do it sooner. Just because a vet can try something doesn't mean they should. In my experience they often forget this.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

I agree that for this poor pony PTS is the kindest thing. As regards who puts her down, what is she like with the vet and needles? If she has no objection to needles then no problem but if she does then death by injection is, in my opinion. unkind. Shooting might sound horrific but it really isn't, it is instantaneous and you don't have to watch. I always hand over and turn away with my hands over my ears.

 

[ycbm]

It sounds very like it to me. Please test her before you PTS

Even if repeated colic, scarred and enlarged liver, raised liver enzymes getting worse, stifle inflammation injected but not resolving hind leg lameness, ulcers, laminitis and excessive pain reaction to simple grooming were symptoms of PSSM I would still argue that a 5 year old unridden horse with a known bad start in life should be PTS for its own sake and that of its owner.
.

 

[windand rain]

Too true YCBM

 

[dorsetladette]

Even if repeated colic, scarred and enlarged liver, raised liver enzymes getting worse, stifle inflammation injected but not resolving hind leg lameness, ulcers, laminitis and excessive pain reaction to simple grooming were symptoms of PSSM I would still argue that a 5 year old unridden horse with a known bad start in life should be PTS for its own sake and that of its owner.
.

Completely agree - there's a time and a place for thinking outside the box and this isn't one of them.

 

[NinjaPony]

Poor pony, and poor you. What a horrible situation. You have my sympathy, and I agree that PTS would be in her best interests. Spoil her rotten, and let her go while the sun is shining. You've done your best for her, and you should take some comfort from that.

 

[Leandy]

I must admit, I definitely agree there are worse things that being PTS.
I have 1 fear.. that I will bring pts up with my vet and they will refuse/not agree. In which case I would not know what to do.

It is not up to the vet it is up to you. Agree that the vet does not even need to be involved if you would prefer not. Rest assured though that they will have helped owners through such decisions on many occasions and are very unlikely to disagree with any decision that does not involve suffering. You won't be the first or the last. There is no requirement that the horse is irreparable or somesuch. Many animals are "PTS" without the issues you have outlined for no reason other than they are superfluous to requirements or needed in the food chain. Don't feel guilty that it is a rescue so you must do everything possible at all costs. You have done right by the horse by trying within reason to give it a chance. Sadly it doesn't always work out but supervising a dignified end may well be the best you can do at this stage, or if not now, at some point. Better too early than too late.

 

[Dexter]

Even if repeated colic, scarred and enlarged liver, raised liver enzymes getting worse, stifle inflammation injected but not resolving hind leg lameness, ulcers, laminitis and excessive pain reaction to simple grooming were symptoms of PSSM I would still argue that a 5 year old unridden horse with a known bad start in life should be PTS for its own sake and that of its owner.
.

Quite a lot of those ARE symptoms of PSSM and may well be resolvable with the correct maintenance. As the author of this post doesn't really want to PTS then its an option that can be explored very quickly.

 

[ycbm]

Quite a lot of those ARE symptoms of PSSM and may well be resolvable with the correct maintenance. As the author of this post doesn't really want to PTS then its an option that can be explored very quickly.

Yes, I meant if they were symptoms of PSSM in that particular 5 year old unridden horse which is known to have had a bad start in life i would still PTS if it was mine., because I don't believe PSSM can be a full answer to all its issues, and those issues are far too serious in a horse which has never even been ridden to keep it going.

I don't read this thread as the poster not wanting to put the horse down, to me it sounds far more like she is looking for permission to do exactly that, think the unthinkable. She has stated that she does not want to put the mare through any more investigations, but to positively rule out PSSM would require a muscle biopsy.
.

 

[FantaPlease]

How very sad but it does sound kindest option would be PTS... please from experience do not fear the bullet. Head in a bucket of feed...then gone. Just like that. So very dignified. I have nothing against injection but i would break if my horse started swaying, staggering, fighting ect before letting go. God bless you and the pony.

 

[BBP]

I get what everyone else is saying, but if it was mine I would first get a second view from a vet that didn’t dismiss the ulcer aspect. I’d be looking to trial ulcer treatment and see if her miserableness and even some of the lameness disappeared. If not I would agree to PTS. The liver enzymes wouldn’t bother me as much as mine was raised for two years and now 5 years down the line are completely normal. I haven’t had a colicky horse so I’m not qualified to comment on that.

How to PTS definitely depends on the horse. Mine is great to sedate/take blood but hates having his face touched so I would go with injection for him.

 

[millikins]

I thought I read somewhere that vets aren't allowed to suggest PTS unless it's an emergency like a broken leg. They have to subtly nudge you into asking them. I too would PTS, I've just had my beloved little driving pony put down because I couldn't balance all her medical needs and allow her some sort of normal horsey life. I used the knacker man, the last thing she knew was a nice chap feeding her polos.

 

[ycbm]

I thought I read somewhere that vets aren't allowed to suggest PTS unless it's an emergency like a broken leg. They have to subtly nudge you into asking them.

I think it's the suing culture that has caused this. Fear of people coming back later and saying 'you told me to put the horse down and now I've found out I could have tried xyz therapy and saved her! '. Some bolder vets will still do it but they are few and far between.
.

 

[Dexter]

Yes, I meant if they were symptoms of PSSM in that particular 5 year old unridden horse which is known to have had a bad start in life i would still PTS if it was mine., because I don't believe PSSM can be a full answer to all its issues, and those issues are far too serious in a horse which has never even been ridden to keep it going.

I don't read this thread as the poster not wanting to put the horse down, to me it sounds far more like she is looking for permission to do exactly that, think the unthinkable. She has stated that she does not want to put the mare through any more investigations, but to positively rule out PSSM would require a muscle biopsy.
.

You might not believe PSSM can be responsible, but people who know what they are talking about will tell you its perfectly possible.

You can test for all known types of PSSM with the exception of P8 and K1, which are coming shortly, via a hair test. No biopsy needed. You don't even need to do the hair test if you need an immediate answer. A change in management should see improvements very quickly so long as its done properly.

Theres no shame in putting any horse down, but for the sake of a hair test I'd want to test mine.

 

[ycbm]

You might not believe PSSM can be responsible, but people who know what they are talking about will tell you its perfectly possible.

You can test for all known types of PSSM with the exception of P8 and K1, which are coming shortly, via a hair test. No biopsy needed..

I believe that those tests are a) not 100% reliable and b) known not to cover all genetic variants of muscle myopathy disease.

If that is correct then the only way to obtain a conclusive negative (which was what I said) is to biopsy.

If the pony does have PSSM, then even if management helps, the pony had a bad start in life, PSSM is a progressive disease and the poor little thing is only five years old and has never even been put into work. What likelihood is there that it has any quality time left to it?

That's why my own decision would still be to PTS. If I was the OP I don't think, with the information that we have, that I would be prepared to spend the horse's lifetime battling a progressive disease that has already had more severe effects on the pony than would be normal in a 'run of the mill' PSSM case.

I understand that your viewpoint is different, and there is no problem with that.
.

 

[windand rain]

I think the point is this pony is suffering has suffered enough and probably has permanent or possibly terminal liver failure liver failure is a horrific way to die

 

[CavaloBranco]

This situation is very raw with me as I have just had my beloved old boy put to sleep last Thursday. He was 21 and had 2 episodes of impaction colic in the space of 2 days due to melanomas, treated by our experienced vets.
The reason I'm sharing is that I decided on the course of action by myself. I may be wrong but my vets seemed reluctant to suggest pts as a definite outcome. My beautiful boy went out into his field stuffed with carrots and apples, I said goodbye and the very kind and experienced knackerman took his rope. We left and on our return all was tidied. I would really recommend this method, I'm so heartbroken but know I did the right thing. There are worse things than PTS as everyone says.

 

[allaboutponies]

Hi all, thank you for all of your replies.
I spoke with my vet who was keen to explore other issues first before deciding anything "permanent".
The pony in question was scoped for ulcers sucessfully and has grade 2/3 ulcers. we are treating these currently.

completely at a loss and my mind is fuzzy. Fell like ive been completely steam rolled by the vets.

 

[Cob Life]

I think it's the suing culture that has caused this. Fear of people coming back later and saying 'you told me to put the horse down and now I've found out I could have tried xyz therapy and saved her! '. Some bolder vets will still do it but they are few and far between.
.

I tend to ask 2 questions:
1. are they suffering?
2. is treatment (if availabl) likely to be unsucessful/distressing?

if the vet answered yes to both these questions I take that as them suggesting PTS. Obviously more discussion happens but I think as owners we often know when it’s time to say goodbye.

 

[allaboutponies]

I tend to ask 2 questions:
1. are they suffering?
2. is treatment (if availabl) likely to be unsucessful/distressing?

if the vet answered yes to both these questions I take that as them suggesting PTS. Obviously more discussion happens but I think as owners we often know when it’s time to say goodbye.

Hi, thanks for your comment. I think she definitley has days were the pain is worse and she is uncomfortable. but at the moment she is enjoying being out in the field for half a day before she starts to call to come in. an improvement from a few months ago when she would just stand at the gate and scream until someone brought her in.

she is no longer on steroids for her liver as her levels came down a fair bit ( but still high for a "normal" horse) she is on peptizol for the ulcers. Shes not keen on the syringe medication but i wouldnt say she found it distressing.

there is of of course the potential for this medications not to work. the ulcers could return or not even heal/go away. and her liver could rocket again.

 

[Cob Life]

Hi, thanks for your comment. I think she definitley has days were the pain is worse and she is uncomfortable. but at the moment she is enjoying being out in the field for half a day before she starts to call to come in. an improvement from a few months ago when she would just stand at the gate and scream until someone brought her in.

she is no longer on steroids for her liver as her levels came down a fair bit ( but still high for a "normal" horse) she is on peptizol for the ulcers. Shes not keen on the syringe medication but i wouldnt say she found it distressing.

there is of of course the potential for this medications not to work. the ulcers could return or not even heal/go away. and her liver could rocket again.

I think if she’s making improvements then you’re doing the right thing curren.

by distressing treatment I mean some of the supervet things you see, where a dog has an op that’s going to extend its life by 6 months but has to spend 4 of those months on restricted exercise but its an active dog.

 

[allaboutponies]

I think if she’s making improvements then you’re doing the right thing curren.

by distressing treatment I mean some of the supervet things you see, where a dog has an op that’s going to extend its life by 6 months but has to spend 4 of those months on restricted exercise but its an active dog.

she seems to have made improvements within herself, unsure of medical improvements as yet