What do you do if a horse bites, kicks, or threatens to?

OrangeAndLemon said:
I think its impossible to give a clear answer on a forum. We all know our own horses (I know from his facial expression if he understands from my reaction if he did something wrong) and we manage our own risks.

Ideally we wouldn't smack / scare or intentionally cause harm unless it was in the interests of removing a greater risk. We are on this forum because we care about our horses and want to do our best for them. Sometimes that means being clear about boundaries. If these are well established early on then the need for reinforcement of rules should be relatively easy to deliver.

In the real world, some of us are brave and kind enough to give a second chance to a horse who didn't enjoy the best education and we need to be able to clearly and effectively communicate when a line has been crossed. As long as this is done with the best interests at heart, then it can't be judged at a distance on a forum.
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^^ good post

Also agree with MoC, when horses go to properly bite each other, they bite HARD. not something you want to mess about with. I know someone who got on the receiving end of a bite intended for another horse and she needed a skin graft, it was a serious injury.
 
If you want to see what a bite mark looks like try to find Mrs B's thread from about three years ago. H took a serious chunk out of her hand for no reason at all and it was gruesome. I've never seen anyone go so white before while still remaining upright.
 
milliepops said:
^^ good post

Also agree with MoC, when horses go to properly bite each other, they bite HARD. not something you want to mess about with. I know someone who got on the receiving end of a bite intended for another horse and she needed a skin graft, it was a serious injury.
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Both the times mine has bitten me seriously I've been in winter coats and still the bruises were awful. The first time was out of the blue in the field (food related) and through tears of pain I can remember thinking I need to keep her head towards me because if I let go of her lead rope I'm going to get kicked badly.

I'm so very glad those days are pretty much behind us. She was vile this morning (drop of 20 degrees and rain!), greeted me with a rear, belted her fieldmate and then after a few choice words from me calmed down and led in like a normal horse. Even before her physical problems came to light I made a commitment I'd be her last home. When she's good anyone can handle her, but when those anxiety levels escalate she's pretty nasty.
 
The thing to remember is that a bite or a kick from a horse, even a "playful" one, can seriously injure or kill you. There can be no excuses or rationalising when a horse goes to attack: it CANNOT be tolerated, this is a non-negotiable fundament of the horse/human relationship.
 
Cortez said:
The thing to remember is that a bite or a kick from a horse, even a "playful" one, can seriously injure or kill you. There can be no excuses or rationalising when a horse goes to attack: it CANNOT be tolerated, this is a non-negotiable fundament of the horse/human relationship.
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Absolutely. You've also got to consider it might not be you on the end of the bite/kick. As someone mentioned earlier the best thing you can do for a horse is instil good manners, and if that involves a timely smack on the shoulder when they get a bit physical or a sharp reminder that teeth are for food only and not for people so be it.
 
milliepops said:
^^ good post

Also agree with MoC, when horses go to properly bite each other, they bite HARD. not something you want to mess about with. I know someone who got on the receiving end of a bite intended for another horse and she needed a skin graft, it was a serious injury.
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A couple of years ago my ribs got a chunk taken out of them by a horse who wouldn't even dream of hurting a fly! He went to nark at the horse in the next stable at feed time and I happened to be in the way. Not his fault in the slightest. I just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. He shot to the back of his box in a panic and I curled up on the floor not knowing whether I was going to laugh or cry I was in that much pain! It turned into the most wonderfully coloured heart shaped bruise! The horse never had a finger laid on him. He didn't mean it, it really wasn't his fault! Sometimes accidents just happen.
 
Cortez said:
The thing to remember is that a bite or a kick from a horse, even a "playful" one, can seriously injure or kill you. There can be no excuses or rationalising when a horse goes to attack: it CANNOT be tolerated, this is a non-negotiable fundament of the horse/human relationship.
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Basically this. If ya want to be a bit of a bunny hugger....get a bunny. Lol.
Being kicked hurts :o
 
Chinchilla said:
Basically this. If ya want to be a bit of a bunny hugger....get a bunny. Lol.
Being kicked hurts :o
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No, if you want to be a bunny hugger, you should get a stuffed bunny. Or stuffed horse, or stuffed tiger if you like. Don't inflict your desire for affection onto an animal that can't understand, or deal with, your behaviour.
 
Personally I would want to work out why the horse felt the need to kick/bite, so many people (on here clearly) are very quick to punish when they dont stand back and look at the big picture and ask WHY the horse is doing it. Of course, it is unacceptable but I dont believe many horses are just being genuinely nasty. I had a big 3yo welsh cob who was very defensive over his feed when I got him - I just kept safely behind a fence with him the other side and ignored the behaviour, if Id hit him he would have got even worse as he was just so anxious. If he threatened anything while I was grooming (which he did early on) then I did growl loudly - that was enough for him to understand it was unacceptable. Once he settled, it stopped completely. People are so quick in the horse world to hit IMO and no that doesnt make me a "bunny hugger", funnily enough Ive had a few horses over the years and not ONE of them has been badly behaved to handle once Ive had them a while. Weirdly though I know of people who do hit their horses and demand good behaviour that way, funnily enough those horses are usually visibly unhappy and behave "badly" most of the time...
 
In the field a bolshy horse in my space and ears flat or threatening to bite, I turn face on and hands in air growling loudly and make it back down and turn away or flick. A rope in its direction. If it goes to follow me again I will repeat stamping my foot towards it to make it back down.
I never hit on face, if a horse did bite me the most I would do in a sharp smack (once only)with my hand on the shoulder and a growling voice at same time.
Generally I Prefer to find other ways to show a horse it's done wrong rather than hit.
 
My horse occasionally gets a bit full of himself, in the field and will try and play with me! shouting at him does work, so I usually chuck a bucket at him! i usually miss but the shock of it come towards him always stops him being an idiot!
 
Ok ... well quick warning that this photo is not too pleasant if you're eating (oops! Too late!)
And some of you will have seen it before. But in the context of the thread, I think it's justified to repost it to show what a bite can mean.

I am not a great rider. I admit it and bumble along after 40+ years, still learning more as I go.
BUT ... I think I am pretty good at reading and handling horses of all types. Have helped run many yards including our own and finally think I'm fairly competent.

My current horse did this. I had owned him for about 8 months and I merely leant on his door for a split second to check he had enough hay. There was no warning. It was through gloves and I am very fortunate that an amazing plastic surgeon was on duty that day.

ETA He said that they only usually saw that type of bite from a zebra ...


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JFTD said:
No, if you want to be a bunny hugger, you should get a stuffed bunny. Or stuffed horse, or stuffed tiger if you like. Don't inflict your desire for affection onto an animal that can't understand, or deal with, your behaviour.
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i t____w a s _____a_____j o k e
 
Mrs B - if ever I was in doubt that my bad mannered mare deserved that whack with a whip when she had her teeth in my arm that photo makes me realise quite how bad it could have been....
 
I'm a big fan of "Batshit Crazy Woman" when a horse threatens to bite or kick. I must look like a lunatic, leaping around, waving my arms and screeching - but it does shock them into backing off. I'm cautious about going after a horse who thinks it might like to kick - I find that if they are mean enough to kick, they are generally mean enough to come back at you if you face up to them. I'd far rather throw something at them from a safe distance.

I'm also mindful of motive - sometimes you're just in the wrong place at the wrong time. I got kicked this evening, by a horse who waves a hindleg at other horses, but doesn't follow through. I walked past him, leading another horse, and he got me on the thigh. It was absolutely my own fault - and he was so horrified that he pulled back, broke the tie-up, and ran away. I didn't do anything, as he didn't mean to get me, and he was well aware that he'd done a bad thing. Bloody hurt though!
 
Chinchilla said:
( I'm not saying what I do until some others have commented. Reading some other threads on here I feel like I'm pretty harsh! :eek: )
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My horse stands in the corner of the stable and cocks one leg if he does not want to be ridden, I ignore him and walk to his front side with his bridle and put it on. He did a pulled double barrel kick at my chest because of this a few weeks ago I still ignored him. This would not work if I did not know him so well and I would not trust another horse not to give the full force version
 
GTRJazz said:
My horse stands in the corner of the stable and cocks one leg if he does not want to be ridden, I ignore him and walk to his front side with his bridle and put it on. He did a pulled double barrel kick at my chest because of this a few weeks ago I still ignored him. This would not work if I did not know him so well and I would not trust another horse not to give the full force version
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I had a horse that did this when I first got him. He had a sore back and an ill-fitting saddle.
 
oldie48 said:
I hope you don't mind me going back to this post but the question was "What do you do if a horse bites, kicks or threatens to?" I am not a novice owner and I know my horses very well, as indeed do most of the others who have posted on here. Over the years we've had everything from pc ponies, youngsters, competition fit eventers, well bred big horses with quite a bit about them and without exception they have always been well mannered and polite to do in every way. When I was a novice owner I got support from people who were experienced and who also had well mannered horses What I realised very quickly is that horses read your body language and confident handling makes for confident horses but I put great store by how horses and ponies are started, this is when the boundaries are put in place. so, if one of my horses went to bite me, I'd know something was awry because it would be completely out of character. However, horses still need to mind their manners and a quick jab with the elbow or a sharp smack is not going to do it any harm and as I said in my earlier post, I'd be looking for the reason the horse reacted. With horses that bite or kick on a more regular basis, I think you are looking at a different issue which would need more than just a quick reprimand and tbh my first reaction would be to ensure I didn't put myself in a place where i could be bitten or kicked in the first place and I would be thinking that they were unsuitable horses for novices to be handling.
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I agree with most of your post!

Two things I would add comment too - yes a horse gets boundaries set during the growing up / backing / training process but that doesn't mean that you can't add further training/ boundaries at a later date.

The other thing I can't agree with is elbowing or sharp slapping, respect works both ways.

As soon as I get a horse home I will start with the ground training. Teaching the horse (if it doesn't already know) not to come into my space without being asked, yielding the front end or hindquarters at will, backing up etc without having to touch the horse.

People have already said on this thread about making themselves big and moving / stopping the horse - that is something needed with some at the start but once training is good enough you can be much more subtle. The horse I've had since a foal only needs me to look at his quarters in a certain way and he will move them over, the newer horse is still learning, I have to point at his quarters

Other people have said that threatening to bite needs a quick response and I agree with that but it can be just as shocking for them to get backed up very quickly from a distance as it can from getting a slap on the shoulder AND it's safer for the handler because you are at a distance and the horse does not get a chance for a repeated try.

Of course there may be freak occurrences like with Mrs B but one incident like that would not make me change my approach.

None of my horses bite, kick, barge, resist moving over when asked to or any of the other things that people seem to hand out slaps / taps / elbows or whatever else.
 
Auslander said:
I'm cautious about going after a horse who thinks it might like to kick - I find that if they are mean enough to kick, they are generally mean enough to come back at you if you face up to them. I'd far rather throw something at them from a safe distance.
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I find that rubber feed trugs make good missiles for distance walloping.

*Alert to bunny huggers* Like Aus, I do not routinely advocate hurling anything at a horse. However, if you are confronted by a bolshy colt hurtling towards you across the field intent on mischief, then I would use whatever came to hand. I DID know why he did it. He had been owned by novices, and had learnt by the age of 10 months that he could terrorise them and chase them out of his field with teeth and heels. If he'd have gone to a competent home initially, he wouldn't have learned so many bad habits.
 
I didn't mean for this thread to get quite as heated as it has done. Oops. Sorry *hides face in hands*

Maybe I should repost the photo of my mangled face after the thoroughbred rearranged it with his hind feet. It's pretty persuasive evidence as to why hitting can be condoned; you can never hit harder than they can ;)
 
Tiddlypom said:
I find that rubber feed trugs make good missiles for distance walloping.

*Alert to bunny huggers* Like Aus, I do not routinely advocate hurling anything at a horse. However, if you are confronted by a bolshy colt hurtling towards you across the field intent on mischief, then I would use whatever came to hand. I DID know why he did it. He had been owned by novices, and had learnt by the age of 10 months that he could terrorise them and chase them out of his field with teeth and heels. If he'd have gone to a competent home initially, he wouldn't have learned so many bad habits.
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i like a rubber trug too!

I freely admit that I have a lunge whip by the mares field. I've never hit anything with it, but I can crack it like a pro, and I find it a very useful dissuader when the flying carthorse is charging around with teeth and heels flying at all the others!
 
Chinchilla said:
I didn't mean for this thread to get quite as heated as it has done. Oops. Sorry *hides face in hands*

Maybe I should repost the photo of my mangled face after the thoroughbred rearranged it with his hind feet. It's pretty persuasive evidence as to why hitting can be condoned; you can never hit harder than they can ;)
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If horses are never hit by a human, do you think they would feel the need to defend themselves so vigorously?
 
Wheels said:
If horses are never hit by a human, do you think they would feel the need to defend themselves so vigorously?
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The horse in question was actually lashing out because he was spooked by someone screaming/shouting and had not been hit at all. MY point was more about how powerful they are and why misbehaviour therefore shouldn't be tolerated.
 
people do just go about in their own bubble and don't know notice the early warning signs, the horse then maybe feels like they have to escalate behaviour to be heard. I come across this a lot.

A horse may very subtly flick an ear or turn his head away or go and stand at the back of the stable when the tack comes out. If the owner / rider is the type of person that just goes and grabs the horse and gets on with it all anyway then what is the horse to do but start lifting a leg or putting his ears back to try and ensure he's heard? What if that gets met with a slap to the shoulder? Then comes the bite.

Wouldn't a better way be to notice the small things and resolve whatever the real issue is be that tack fit, work too hard or boring, horse doesn't want to leave his friends, scared of hacking or whatever it is that means the horse does not want to be ridden

(This is just an example, not saying that this is the only reason horses bite etc and not aimed at anyone in particular either, musings from my observations of watching people and horses over many years)
 
oldie48 said:
Mine don't either but i think we'll need to disagree on how I'd deal with it if they did. however, little Fatty, who is a cheeky monkey, tried to nip the farrier this week when having his feet done, he got short shrift from the farrier and I doubt he'll try that again! (sorry i suffer from last worditis!)
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Lol So I've noticed :p - so your horse doesn't bite but did bite the farrier, gotcha.

But happy to agree to disagree on treatment of same, I wasn't actually going to respond any further to the thread but you asked me directly and now you've got me on my soap box lol
 
Wheels said:
people do just go about in their own bubble and don't know notice the early warning signs, the horse then maybe feels like they have to escalate behaviour to be heard. I come across this a lot.

A horse may very subtly flick an ear or turn his head away or go and stand at the back of the stable when the tack comes out. If the owner / rider is the type of person that just goes and grabs the horse and gets on with it all anyway then what is the horse to do but start lifting a leg or putting his ears back to try and ensure he's heard? What if that gets met with a slap to the shoulder? Then comes the bite.

Wouldn't a better way be to notice the small things and resolve whatever the real issue is be that tack fit, work too hard or boring, horse doesn't want to leave his friends, scared of hacking or whatever it is that means the horse does not want to be ridden

(This is just an example, not saying that this is the only reason horses bite etc and not aimed at anyone in particular either, musings from my observations of watching people and horses over many years)
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No this is what people definitely, definitely need to aim to do....I've never been bitten and only kicked* once though. I don't take pride in hitting a horse and only do it as a very, very last resort.

* or bucked at and got by mistake really by a terrified horse. In that instance hitting was 1) impossible and 2) inappropriate.
 
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Chinchilla said:
The horse in question was actually lashing out because he was spooked by someone screaming/shouting and had not been hit at all. MY point was more about how powerful they are and why misbehaviour therefore shouldn't be tolerated.
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but in that situation (as described) the horse was spooking and acting defensively, no point in punishing him for it-that would be confusing for him? and hitting previously for kicking wouldn't necessarily stop him from lashing out when spooked would it? colts/bargy/high jinks behaviour needs addressing but as people have said, if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time or trying to punish defensive behaviour then its counter-productive. Handling has to be fair.

I've never been taught more about handling than with my current Exmoor-getting a moor bred weanling that only knew quite traumatic handling (i.e. nothing until 6 months then branded then tipped over for inspection) just before I bought him. Much of what I taught him was done with him being at liberty and feed skip incident aside, he's been a biddable, well mannered pony. And I agree with Wheels, people need to educate themselves more about recognising behavioural signs-of stress, of pain etc etc
 
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