What do you think about Parelli?

[ges]

Hi, interesting reading

maybe the horses were not dull looking but actually relaxed which is a key factor in parelli and an ultimate aim - if your horse is relaxed they are relaxed with - even tail swishing is an indicator that your horse is not happy with something you are asking it to do.

Likewise, with the field scenario - don't you think that horses sometimes get bored with each others company - playing for them stimulates their brain - how, depends on whether they are left or right brained and if their rider can stimulate that more for them then of course they are going to look forward to that person arriving - its not a negative response.

 

[RuthR]

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From the e-news:
An announcement of our evolving presence and commitment to the growth of natural horsemanship in the UK—interestingly it says that Pat will be teaching clinics at Stoneleigh himself....which is news to us!! How interesting—but it never hurts to put it out there! What is exciting, they are asking for YOUR opinion on WHAT you think about Parelli? So please post your views on www.horseandhound.co.uk/parelli

So far the poll is only two hours live and there are 136 postings....lets show how much WE CARE about increasing knowledge around horse human relationships! Thanks for sharing the journey with us all!

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That has made me PMSL! Obv there are no inside Parelli people contributing to that forum - seeing that Pat himself has quoted about being so happy to be based at Stoneleigh

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That didn't come from a forum. It is from the official Parelli e-news that is sent weekly from their headquarters. You can view it if you visit Parelli.com and click e-news.

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Still think it is rather funny that they do not know that Pat is already set up at Stoneleigh - or is he lying...

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There seems to be confusion over this point. What was implied in H&H was that Pat Parelli would personnally be instruction courses at Stoneleigh from next year. This is what the Parelli e-news are refering to when they say 'news to us'. The e-news is not saying that they are not going to be at Stoneleigh...just that Pat won't be teaching the courses. The courses will be taught by endorsed Parelli instructors.

I hope that clears up the confusion.

 

[kellybeau]

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So are any Parelli advocates going to justify and answer my previous comment about Parelli backing 2 year olds and setting up and competing in distasteful "contests" in the US?

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Firstly, HE didn't set the competition up...he was just a competitor!!!
Secondly, that contest took place quite a number of years ago and as far as I'm aware it's the only time Pat ever competed in it. Maybe this is because he realised it was a mistake...Pat Parelli is not a god, he IS capable of getting things wrong and making mistakes like everyone else......
Trouble is there's always folks eager to criticise PNH at any chance they get - even dwelling on one competition that happened years ago.

 

[RuthR]

Ok, I hope I have figured out how to use photobucket! I've never posted pictures in this way before so I hope it works ok. Most of the pictures are quite old now - I tend to be out in the field by myself so don't have a lot to choose from but I hope you will see that both me and my horse are happy. We are not doing anything particularly fancy but we are having fun. As I say they are a bit old so we are a bit more advance now.

The last one is really just to show that he can be very cheeky!

I can't figure out how to make them smaller...sorry...any advice?!

 

[Kate_13]

Thanks for the pics, what is the red string hanging from your saddle?

Also I can't honestly see what you have done differently to what we do??? Except swap a bridle for a piece of rope and carry an orange stick everywhere.

I am not trying to be rude, just understand.

 

[gemmah]

Hey ruth! lovely pics! Well done for managing to post them! I don't even know how to get mine on the comptuer in the 1st place! LOL! I think it looks like you're both having gr8 fun! I am going to pre-empt some comments that I am sure will follow though! As you said these are oldish pics that show you fairly near the beginning of your journey and although only slightly visible in a couple of the pics, I know from somewhere comments will probably come re the shape of the horse and lack of engagement etc etc ie the fact that he is not working correctly with the correct muscle development esp in his belly area where he has the low slung look of not using the top line correctly. I know this is an issue as I have experienced it myself!! However for anyone that it thinking this, please remember that what you are seeing is not the finished product but only part of the process. Please don't judge the cake by what the cake mix looks like! Ruth Please don't take this as a critisism it isn't, only I have, in the past, had the same things aimed at me and I thaught I'd mention it b4 anyting negative is said. Ruth I think your pics are gr8 and I'd love to speak with you more sometime if you want to pm me. If anyone wants to see more pics check out Ingela's site www.kingdomhorse.co.uk. There are som gr8 1's there!

 

[RuthR]

The red string is just something you get when you officially pass Level 1 - its just like in karate as you go up the levels you get a differnet coloured belt.

I guess it doesn't look much different but thats the point - good natural horsemanship shouldn't look different to good 'traditional' horsemanship. The reason I agreed to post these pictures was because someone asked for photos of horses enjoying Parelli. I hope these pictures show that my horse is very happy and enjoying himself.

He was a horse who had had his personality surpressed and he was forced to do a lot of things that he didn't want to do. Pre-parelli he wouldn't catch (he landed me in hospital when I was trying to catch him one day - he spooked and double barrelled me in the chest as he tried to run away), wouldn't stand to be groomed, tacked up, rugged up etc, he would bronk when being ridden, he would spook frequently (this ment he would spin 180 degrees and take off bucking in the other direction!), he wouldn't trailer load, he couldn't be left in a stable cos he would rear and plunge at the door...do I need to go on?!

Now he's a calm, happy and relaxed horse who greets me at the gate, is happy to be with me, I don't need to tie him up to groom him or saddle him, he will load at liberty (in fact sometimes I can't keep him out the trailer!) - basically now, thanks to Parelli and the changes it caused me to make within myself , we have a wonderful relationship and we are a true partnership.

I thought I was good with horses but Naz made me realise that I didn't have a clue so I had to look outside the box to find something that would help me with this horse. For me, this method has worked and I now couldn't think of any other way of being with a horse. If you can acheive this without then thats brilliant...I just needed a bit of help.

 

[RuthR]

Yes he is not properly engaged in any of the photos and I take that on. The photos are a couple of years old now so we are lot further on - I just don't have any more recent pictures!

. I would definately recomment kingdom horse for some more 'advanced' pictures

 

[tiga7592]

This is one of my Parelli ponies. You can criticise him for looking like a christmas tree having a bad hair day but I will not have it said that he is dull and bored with the proceedings.

 

[Kate_13]

Thanks for the explanation Ruth, I wouldn't comment on conformation or engagement as that was not was required of wanting to see the photos.

Congratulations on what you have achieved.

For me I personally and fortunately do not have the problems that you have encountered, so for me I would not turn to parelli as I *touches wood* don't have any problems that require me to look outside my current equine knowledge.

 

[RuthR]

I love your horse! I want him!!

 

[Kate_13]

Me too, he's lovely!

 

[Skhosu]

So what about a fit tb who enjoys his eventing? HE can be soft as you like at home, on the buckle. Once his blood is up, and he LOVES his job, he gets strong. I compete him in two different types of snaffle, a myler for xc, and an ordinary french link one for dressage. So since he gets strong, is he not a happy horse? (And yes, he wears a martingale, as a safety net)

if they use 'at higher levels, selected curb bits,' then why can competition horses, horses at the top of their game, be ridden in anything other than a snaffle? What happened the theory of a bit is only as strong as the rider who uses it? And hackamore type bridles can be severe enough and cause significant damage...

 

[Skhosu]

Lovely horses in the pictures, both gorgeous. And both look interested and happy, so there's my question answered!

 

[Grahamp]

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Graham, you talk about the 'Human development aspect of Parelli.' Most of the Parelli people I have met have SERIOUS emotional problems (you can tell by their bodies, slightly crazed look in their eyes and fanatical attachment to a cause/leader).
I know what you mean - I have met some similar people who are not Parelli - speaking as a simple man those women scare me.
If the Parelli organisation is so good at human development tell me why do they have such a high staff turnover?
I don't know, I am an FD and I can honestly say that working with horses using the Parelli programme has been the best personal development training I have had.
why can't they keep their instructors in any country in the world?
All I can say is that the instructors I use have been so for many years.
Why are there LESS Parelli instructors now than at any other time in their history?
Are there, what are the numbers?
There's something seriously wrong with that organisation - it's NOT the horsemanship, it's the PEOPLE!

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This may be the nub of the issue. It is a business and there will be conflict between business objectives and horsemanship objectives. I do wonder about some business issues but the bottom line is that the product is good for me so I am happy to support the business by giving them my custom.

 

[Enfys]

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Your just jealous! At least WE listen to horses. Oh and if you don't listen to the horse it will start playing up as they will hate you and don't want to be with you!

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Why does there have to be a "We" and a "You" ?

I think it is this attitude that gets everyone's backs up, as well as the apparent need to defend Parelli. If a product (wrapped up however you like) is as good as it is claimed it doesn't need people clucking about it like a broody hen with chicks.

Being told, over and over again, how wonderful something is, and therefore because I am not doing it, how wrong I apparently am really gets my goat. It is like having a Jehovahs's Witness at the door, they are still talking as you shut the door in their face.

 

[kellybeau]

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Why does there have to be a "We" and a "You" ?

I think it is this attitude that gets everyone's backs up, as well as the apparent need to defend Parelli. If a product (wrapped up however you like) is as good as it is claimed it doesn't need people clucking about it like a broody hen with chicks.

Being told, over and over again, how wonderful something is, and therefore because I am not doing it, how wrong I apparently am really gets my goat. It is like having a Jehovahs's Witness at the door, they are still talking as you shut the door in their face.

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The 'we and you' problem appears to manifest more with the critics of PNH rather than the students. If a person doesn't agree with the structure of the programme, the simple solution for them would be not to follow it.

Surely anyone who follows an interest with passion (whether it be PNH, foxhunting, horseracing etc) will defend it against criticism - I know I certainly will!!

It would be intersting to read where and by whom you've been told over and over again that your wrong for not following PNH.....it certainly wouldn't have been by PP or any of his instructors!!!!!

 

[RCAWilson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bHDwVVo7n4

These horses look very happy and content to me, not stressed in the slightest. I'd find it hard to believe they are subjected to, I quote, 'harsh' or 'extreme' treatment, that being what a couple people said of Parelli. And just to clarify, I'm not saying you can only achieve this kind of trust and harmony by doing Parelli, because of course there are naturally gifted or very lucky taught horsemen who have'nt needed it, although they are'nt common!

 

[Rambo]

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bHDwVVo7n4

These horses look very happy and content to me, not stressed in the slightest. I'd find it hard to believe they are subjected to, I quote, 'harsh' or 'extreme' treatment, that being what a couple people said of Parelli. And just to clarify, I'm not saying you can only achieve this kind of trust and harmony by doing Parelli, because of course there are naturally gifted or very lucky taught horsemen who have'nt needed it, although they are'nt common!

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WOT !

No Hat

 

[PapaFrita]

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Your just jealous! At least WE listen to horses. Oh and if you don't listen to the horse it will start playing up as they will hate you and don't want to be with you!

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Excuse me?? Why do you assume that our horses play up?? My horse is very well behaved and a wonderful, willing ride. And I didn't achieve it with a carrot stick. Why is Parelli the only 'right' way? The only way to 'listen' to a horse? How arrogant!!

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Why does there have to be a "We" and a "You" ?

Being told, over and over again, how wonderful something is, and therefore because I am not doing it, how wrong I apparently am really gets my goat. It is like having a Jehovahs's Witness at the door, they are still talking as you shut the door in their face.

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Too bloody right! I'm sick of hearing that my horse must be depressed/angry/hate me because I don't train her using Parelli techniques... Or do I?? I use common sense which is apparently FAR to simple an explanation for the 'miracle' that is Parelli.
I think they're more like Scientologists, personally!

 

[RCAWilson]

Yes, many people ride without hats.
What did you think of the video?
It would be nice to hear what those who don't practise natural horsemanship think.

 

[Rambo]

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Yes, many people ride without hats.
What did you think of the video?
It would be nice to hear what those who don't practise natural horsemanship think.

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It was my (seemingly failed) attempt at humour...sorry

To be honest, i have no strong opinions on the video either way. I have seen 'ordinary' people riding and jumping horses without tack, and i have seen horses performing tricks in the circus too. I personally wouldn't ride either of mine without because (a) i don't have a death wish and (b) it would serve no purpose to me whatsover in relation to what i want to do with my horses. I believe the BSJA closed the loophole whereby you could jump a horse 'under rules' without a saddle quite recently so i'm safe in my Stubben for now....

I guess what i'm saying is, good luck to you if it's your 'thing' but don't assume that everybody 'needs' to be a part of it

 

[Skhosu]

tbhm I'm not all that impressed by riding tackless, and I think it can create problems such as pressue (bareback) and whilst I can wuite happily trundle around without bridle, and have done, for a horse to work correctly I am happy to use my bridle (bad me..bad me...) and bitless (surely not?) bridle depending on what works.
It's a stunt, done to impress but not very useful!

 

[Skhosu]

actually..just watched the video to the end and we have:
tack on when leading horse....I have no objection but for the purpose the video is used for...
and lungeing a horse in a very small circle..not good for the horse I don't think (and there appeared to be a whip involved...)
nothing special. sorry

 

[RCAWilson]

Ok, thanks for the opinions.
Could I just clarify that it's not about the tack, not having this on or that on or being bridleless. I wanted for you to see passed that and look at WHY and HOW she is doing what she is with her horse. No comments about her horse at what we call Liberty, no lines attached. She is not doing this stuff to prove to those watching what she can do, she is doing it to test herself and her relationship with her horse, not showing off, just having fun with the great friend she has.

Is this really 'nothing special'??

As for the 'lunging', this is not actually lunging, in the sense that she is nagging her horse around on a circle for 20 mins purely for the sake of the horse's physical development. The closest thing we do to this is called 'the circling game', and though is looks similar, it's not, and is used primarily for the mental (the relationship between horse and human), not physical development of the horse. 30 seconds (if that!) on a small (and not forced) circle is better than 10-15 mins on a 15 metre circle at the trot or canter, of course you must take into account the physical fitness of the horse and all are individual.

 

[ThomasTank]

Personally, I am finding this all very interesting, although I havent read the whole thread.
I just keep popping in from time to time to have a nose poke

 

[Skhosu]

yes... it is lungeing! It is also a snapshot so you have no idea how long it is...
but you say that's not the point, and then say it shows it with 'no lines' etc. so what about with tack as I presume that comes under lines.
And yes, nothing special. I can ride without tack. I rarely do as bareback I feel is causing more pressue and bridleless, no point!
I tbh see a well trained horse and yes, a decent rider.
Why she is doing it-I would imagine because she is doing it
How-she has trained her horse.
Same as your break a youngster and train it to do a job.
You can get perfectly same results (not sure how to put that) without parelli.

 

[lizgarland]

Parelli is so much more than just common sense. It is the building of trust and confidence between horse and rider. It builts a relationship with a horse that you dreamt about when you were a kid and somehow lost along the way. It brings this back to you, that closeness that you know what he is thinking and feeling just by looking at him. It is putting your relationship with your horse first before anything else because that is what is important. It is when your horse wants to be with you because he actually likes you and because of the trust and confience built up he will do anything for you, he is smarter, braver and so tuned into you that it blows your mind. That is Parelli - thanks to Pat and Linda

 

[gemmah]

Wow tiga your horse is stunning! Def doesn't look bored 2 me! kudu that wasn't aimed at u btw, just there were a few negative posts at the begining of the thread re fluidity and position etc and I am aware that all the 'freestyle' riding has caused quite alot of controversy in the past, Don't know if those guys are still reading, just didn't want all that being a new point for agro. As ruth said shouldn't really be any difference if u already have a good relationship with your horse which by the sounds of it you do kudu and so do many other people who don't practice 'natural' methods. I don't think any of this should really be an issue it seems so silly! If your horse is happy who cares, and if he isn't and you have found a way to make him so, who cares what that is either so long as it works!! LOL

 

[Taboo1968]

Sorry - there is far too much quoted here for a PM or email.... so I shall give my thoughts in appropriate areas!
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So, I guess, you get these results from your common sense,
your horse runs to you from the field when he sees you at the gate, he is as light and responsive as you could possibly want- on the ground and on his back, your horse is always tuned into you? Your horse is free, no rope attached and he follows you around running, walking, turning and stopping, mirroring you, he asks you questions? He has total confidence and trust in you, your horse sees you as a fun human, yes? You play with your horse. He is completely respectful of your space, as you are of his.

Ummmm yep, mine come running to me everytime they see me at the gate.... and yes mine follow me around in walk trot and canter, totally free from ropes etc etc. In fact there was not one parelli horse on my old yard that came running when they saw their owner!!!


Why do 'traditional' horse riders not have this relationship with their horses? When they have this 'common sense'? Oh wait, they do! Yes.... It's just not always used?? Maybe not everyone knows this common sense stuff?

I'm a traditional rider and have this relationship with all my horses! Does this mean I have common sense and am actually using it?

Of course, this common sense is so simple, who needs Pat Parelli tell you this?

You said it!!!



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Common sense to me is not continously loading your horse in and out a trailer for three hours, leading to the horse tanking off across the paddock and the owner saying its being naughty!!! Ah no, use your common sense, said horse is that fed up with being sent in and out of trailer like a jack in the box, it is trying to tell you its had enough!

Common sense to me is not paying out all that money to have an award for riding your horse bareback - I used to do this when I was 12, headcollar, rope attached and jump on in field and ride pony into yard!!!!

And quite frankly I agree with many of the statements made - Parelli is for those that are too scared to get on and ride their horses!

ETA: In reference to the lunging comment about nagging the horse on a circle - why is it I can lunge whilst other people are lunging and say the commands and the other horse being lunged at the other end of the school will follow those commands as well!