What do you think? Cross about the situation we a puppy we bred....

[Mongoose11]

Ok, so one of our lovely golden labs was sold to a friend of a friend. Respectable people, had a lab already - he is well looked after.

Reports came back that new owner too lazy to keep on top of letting pup out a few times an hour to go to the toilet, pup frequently messing in house. Ok, so this happens but can be trained out of very quickly if you put the effort in. Pup now coming up five months and still messing in the house - not everytime but from what i can gather a couple of times a week at least, if not more.

They now crate her during the day - all day. Decided to try her out of the crate yesterday and came home to a detroyed bed and wee everywhere.

I am cross. They are going to 'buy a bigger crate'.

They also plan to breed her but work full time.....

 

[echodomino]

That's appalling but not sure there's an awful lot you can do beside offer advice. Re the breeding that's why I endorse my puppies, in the vain hope that unregistered they aren't worth much is enough of a deterrent. I will lift it for the right people.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Did you not have a contract? Particularly with endorsements on breeding?

Why are they already thinking about breeding a dog they can't or cannot be bothered to train/if she is only five months how can they be sure of her quality as a breeding animal or if she will pass her health tests once she is twelve months?
Actually don't answer that.....

 

[MurphysMinder]

If you have a contract with endorsements its worth contacting the KC and emphasising they can't be lifted without your express permission. Were you aware they worked full time when you let them have the pup, if not then you might just be able to guilt them in to returning the pup if they weren't honest with you but unfortunately I don't think there is a huge amount you can do otherwise. Have you offered them advice with the house training over the past few months , that would be my first course of action and maybe offer to have the pup back if they are finding her too much, they might just decide they have had enough of the mess if you are very lucky.

 

[lexiedhb]

What do i think? stop breeding ??

Ok apart from that without a contract nowt you can do- and I doubt there would have been a clause in it to say "you will agree to toilet train the dog".

How well did you check out this home/owners for these issues to arise so quickly. Did you ask em if they intended to breed/ had had a pup before/ would be out all day with no provisions for the dogs etc etc etc sounds to me like you just took your friends word that this would be a good home for said pup.

 

[Jools2345]

What do i think? stop breeding ??

agre, i wont breed from my bitch as i can only be sure of 6 good homes with direct friends and family who know what they would be taking on. so no puppies for us

but its done now so i would offer to but the puppy back at the amount they paid for it and go from there

 

[Mongoose11]

Ok so I should have made myself clear - in all honesty, this puppy was bred by my mother - despite my advice that she shouldn't.

The buyers were secured very early and each Saturday or even twice a week the new owners came together to spend time with the puppies, my Mum sent weekly photos to the buyers and excellent relationships were built. We had lunch with them, countless cups of tea... it really wasn't your regular 'deposit down, turn up 6 weeks later' kind of situation. The pup owners are all connected on Facebook - a couple of the pups now have their own pages and we are in almost daily contact with the buyers who all share milestones and pictures with each other. The homes are first rate and we went to the effort of checking and having a lot of conatct with the buyers prior to sale.

Since purchase every single pup has visited back, met up with Mum and her pack out for walks and I feel strongly about people assuming that we didn't do everything that we could to check out the buyers.

This pup's buyer was slightly different. The pup was a suprise - she is the best friend of my horse's sharer and so we had a very positive recommendation. What more could I have done? Their older Lab is well trained, is always with them and in good health.

The fact is, the pup is now not being mistreated but not being trained as I would like.

Sorry if I sound cross. Please don't assume that once the pups were conceived I didn't do all I could to make sure that these pups had great homes. The bitch even had mother's day cards sent to her by some of her brood!

Since we sold the pup, the owner got a new job - prior to this she was working from home for part of the day.

 

[AmyMay]

Have you contacted them yourself to offer some support (or even have the pup back)?

 

[Mongoose11]

Have you contacted them yourself to offer some support (or even have the pup back)?

This is my next step, as she hasn't come to us directly it has been difficult (I have been talking about the situation with my lovely sharer and trying to pass advice through her). I am having dinner with my sharer tonight and will try to get a complete understanding of the issues as she sees them and I will then see if it is appropriate for me to approach the owner (I am linked with her on Facebook and had met her a couple of times long before the pups were born as she also rides). I think I will message her and ask her how things are going specifically.

She doesn't appear to be the type to take advice. Sharer also had a pup from us who has been brought up as an absolute angel, despite it being her first dog, because she has worked tirelessly with him.

Yes, I need to make direct contact. I can't bear the thought of her being crated all day - she just hasn't been trained properly. I crate my boy but only for a few hours at a time when necessary. My husband works from home too.

 

[Dobiegirl]

Did you sell with endorsements and did the pups go with a contract?.

 

[Mongoose11]

No my mum didn't. Like I said, she shouldn't have bred them.

 

[Mongoose11]

Urgh. My family has done exactly what I rant about. Unregistered, unproven breeding.

 

[Dobiegirl]

What does your mother think about the situation, has it put her off breeding in future do you think?. Im sure you are using the situation to try and put her off breeding in the future.

Even with everything in place things can go wrong thats partly why we would never breed our Lancashire Heeler bitch even as a rare vunerable breed.

 

[Mongoose11]

I haven't spoken to her about it yet, she would probably be really defensive. Both bitches have now been spayed.

 

[stormox]

I honestly dont think theres anything you can do- apart from offer to buy the pup back. She belongs to someone else now, and, as long as theres no ill-treatment, how they keep her, or if they breed from her, is their business. Maybe things will turn out OK in the end- they might build a dog run, change to a part-time job, get someone to come in and walk her, etc.etc.

 

[lexiedhb]

What more could you have done? Had back up homes in place to ensure any 'Surprises' were covered. Offer lifetime support for the pup including having said pups back if the new owners are no longer able to care for them

You cant dictate how a new owner trains a dog Im fairly sure, offer advise if they want need it sure- but these folk don't seem to want that.

Am glad your mum is not thinking of breeding any more litters.

 

[Mongoose11]

Why do you presume we haven't offered lifetime contact or support - we have. This owner has not yet asked us to intervene so I am working around it. Why do you presume we wouldn't have the pup back? If she delivered it tomorrow it would have a home for life. Thanks for your judgement.

 

[Mongoose11]

What more could you have done? Had back up homes in place to ensure any 'Surprises' were covered. Offer lifetime support for the pup including having said pups back if the new owners are no longer able to care for them

You cant dictate how a new owner trains a dog Im fairly sure, offer advise if they want need it sure- but these folk don't seem to want that.

Am glad your mum is not thinking of breeding any more litters.

In fact - have you even read the thread? This owner has not contacted us to say that she needs help, she has not asked to give the pup back. The problem is that I don't think she has trained her effectively and is currently crating her. What would you suggest I do call the RSPCA, steal the dog back? Hardly necessary. This thread was to share my dismay and ask for advice about how to approach the situation. What would you do? Call the owner and say that you had heard things weren't perfect and would she like some help? That's about all I can do so I am not sure what you are getting at. I am first going to see if My sharer can pass on my advice as it is her that the owner has shared the problem with.

How would a 'back up home ' be of help here? The pup isn't being handed back. What's your point? If she was to find herself needing a home she would go back to my Mum. Again, what is your point?

 

[Kaylum]

Billie I think you need to speak to your mum cause maybe they will listen to her advice as the breeder.

 

[Sue C]

What do i think? stop breeding ??

Ok apart from that without a contract nowt you can do- and I doubt there would have been a clause in it to say "you will agree to toilet train the dog".

How well did you check out this home/owners for these issues to arise so quickly. Did you ask em if they intended to breed/ had had a pup before/ would be out all day with no provisions for the dogs etc etc etc sounds to me like you just took your friends word that this would be a good home for said pup.

I agree STOP BREEDING, how many unwanted dogs are in homes

 

[Mongoose11]

I agree STOP BREEDING, how many unwanted dogs are in homes

I agree! This litter wasn't my choice! Thanks for your help with regard to the problems with this pup.

 

[pogface]

I agree STOP BREEDING, how many unwanted dogs are in homes

This isn't what Billie is asking. The puppies are now 6 months old, ok so people believe that they shouldn't have been bred - fine. The fact of the matter is that they have!

I am said sharer, I have one of the puppies, his name is Frank.

The girl being mentioned just needs a bit of a push in the right direction. In my opinion (limited! Frank is my first dog) she needs ideas how to stop the puppy from being the ultimate destroyer and peeing everywhere. The other dog in the house, also a lab, was very easy to train and is very chilled out. Pup isn't quite the same, more needy. This has caught them off guard I think as dog number 1 was so simple. Owner believes that pup becomes stressed when they leave her which is why she destroys/wees. In the crate she does not destroy and obviously won't wee as its her bed. Owner thinks that all the issues are down to separation anxiety.

The dog is loved, looked after, fit and healthy. The owner is the type of person that doesn't take advise easily on something she considers herself to be fairly knowledgeable about. She has not asked for help, she has just told me what's been going on. Please don't think her a bad person, she's not. Just needs some suggestions from you knowledgeable people.... which is why this thread was started in the first place.

Any helpful suggestions?........rather than reminders that people shouldn't have puppies willie nillie which we are aware of...

 

[galaxy]

Pogface... Tell her crating a pup as an aid to house training and to keep her safe from eating/chewing things that are harmful are fine and that is wise. However you need to tell her it is unacceptable to leave a dog (especially a pup of that age!!) home alone all day especially in a crate! She needs to arrange doggy daycare ASAP.

 

[pogface]

Galaxy - thank you I will attempt to give her some help. Someone pops home to let her out the crate at lunchtime, so she is in the crate for maybe 4 hours ish at a time. But I want her to recognise that she shouldn't be crating her at this age, it also isn't a long term solution!

 

[Venevidivici]

I have a 7mth old German Shorthaired Pointer pup. (Slightly diff in character/energy but still a working breed like the lab.)
He would be absolutely mentaaal if left in his crate all that time (let out at lunchtime is better than not but it's still all day.)
Poor pup,it is effectively spending its life caged. My boy would be desperate,crazy,depressed,wild even, if that was how I kept him!
I agree-she needs dog daycare ASAP.

 

[Clodagh]

Galaxy - thank you I will attempt to give her some help. Someone pops home to let her out the crate at lunchtime, so she is in the crate for maybe 4 hours ish at a time. But I want her to recognise that she shouldn't be crating her at this age, it also isn't a long term solution!

Nothing at all wrong with crating, our lab pup went in at mealtimes (ours and hers!), slept in it at night and any time when we had to go out and leave her. Cages weren't invented when I last had a pup, and they make life so much easier. Main thing is a puppy shouldn't be left for 8 hours a day, being let out for a wee isn't proper interation. Labs are working dogs and very energetic so need lots of interest in their lives. Our lab pup is now 4 and is still a PITA if she hasn't had enough exercise!

 

[pogface]

Hi clodagh, yup I agree. we have crated frank when he was younger, we still have one in the lounge which he pops himself in now and again! It's the 8 hours in a crate at a time that I think is the issue. Um what's a PITA???

 

[Mongoose11]

Pain In The Ass

 

[Clodagh]

^^^

What she says!!

 

[CorvusCorax]

Walks aside (one or two a day five days a week), all this dog will see is the same four walls, assuming it lives in the house. I would suggest an outdoor run with a roof and a kennel for during the day so at least the dog can get some fresh air, see birds, trees, etc!.
I crate my dog overnight, but that is when he sleeps and he is outside during the day on the days I work.