WHAT DO YOU THINK OF OUR REFORMED 2 YEAR OLD-PICS!

B

blueberry

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This is Max our homebred 2 year old (some may remember and earlier post about him biting and being bossy).

I am pleased to say he has improved by approx 60% and has now seen the error of his ways.

Thought you might like to see him and special thanks for the advice we were given but not the comment to never breed again and you know who you are!
 
To be honest, we just had to let him know that he was not top of the 'pecking order'. We have had to be quite assertive with him as at 16 hh and still growing it wasnt healthy for him to be in charge.
We just havent given him an inch, he has sulked a bit but grooming and spending time with him is much more pleasurable for both of us.
 
[quote
This is Max our homebred 2 year old (some may remember and earlier post about him biting and being bossy).
I am pleased to say he has improved by approx 60% and has now seen the error of his ways.
Thought you might like to see him and special thanks for the advice we were given but not the comment to never breed again and you know who you are!

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<font color="blue">
Oh, well done - you have made great progress from 'vicious' to this in less than a week!
And it was me who thought you shouldn't breed from his bloodlines again....the exchange went a little like this: </font>


Blueberry said:
i feel though that genetically he may be pre-disposed to have this personality and yes, environmental factors can affect this-ie: handling etc but we saw a big change when we brought him back him after being turned away with youngsters and he is the only one like this.
it does maybe seem like he is trying to be the 'alpha male'. I have never felt like this before but i dont trust him and we have had some tricky youngsters but he is different.

<font color="blue"> Shilasdair said:
If you think he is genetically pre-disposed to be a difficult child, then avoid breeding from the mare and/or stallion ever again! The world is full of pleasant horses - no one needs problem ones.
If you really feel out of your depth, either send him to someone else for training (but he may still be a little snake with you), or sell him if you don't like him. If he finds someone to have a fresh start with, he may improve.
Perhaps one of the rescue charities would help you out - they are usually very good at matching horses with suitable homes and handlers who won't be scared of them.
But don't breed any more
Good luck.
S </font>

Blueberry said:
This was the 1st foal bred from this mare and to be honest we did decide not to breed from her again, she found him very difficult to cope with. Of course he would not have a suitable temperament to breed with if he was entire-which he isnt.
The mare is very correct and is a wonderful type for her breed and she has a great temperament so we did not make a foolish decision in breeding with her and her stallion was carefully chosen for his temperament too.
So really his temperament should have been a foregon conclusion but he is an exception to the rule.
We are not scared of him, that is not the same as not trusting him.
I am just wanting to think carefully about the way forward with him. He will not be sold , he will one day in the near future have a good ridden job. All our horses are carefully handled and schooled and become very genuine schoolmasters/mistresses in time. I am very proud of our home produced record and our ponies and always notiably well mannered in the ring, so it isnt all bad.
Being honest and asking for other peoples advice is not a failing but it is because i am confident in what we do that i am able to ask.
We will always consider breeding in the future if we choose to but obviously consider the parents.


<font color="blue"> In which, correct me if I'm wrong, you seem to agree that this particular stallion/mare combination is not a good idea.
S
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Sadly shilasdair you are not always right and the superior authority on all things equine.
I do not believe the combination to be the real problem. The mare was in fact too good a mum, she was ever so proud of her baby. So much so that she allowed him to do whatever he wanted and she never 'disciplined him.
He would jump on her, bite her ears,mane, legs and she never told him off, .
If she tried to rest and lie down he would rear on her and she would promptly stand for him. He always wanted her stood just in case he wanted a drink.
She let him get away with far too much.

Ane yes 60% improvement in one week is very possible, he has improved by more than half.
He became aggressive at a time when we moved him off our yard as we had leased it out and was resting his field.
the new yard is also an NVQ centre and his handling became varied, not just ourselves.
I posted about him at a time when i was evaluating his beahavour and was interested in advice/ opinions.
Unfortunately your reply was one typical of one of those annoying livery types who cant resist being smart.
Sorry but thats how it sounded.
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[ QUOTE ]
Sadly shilasdair you are not always right and the superior authority on all things equine.
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I do not believe the combination to be the real problem. The mare was in fact too good a mum, she was ever so proud of her baby. So much so that she allowed him to do whatever he wanted and she never 'disciplined him.
He would jump on her, bite her ears,mane, legs and she never told him off, .
If she tried to rest and lie down he would rear on her and she would promptly stand for him. He always wanted her stood just in case he wanted a drink.
She let him get away with far too much.
<font color="blue">I'm sorry, but somewhere along the line you have to take responsibility for the animals you breed. If they're 'vicious' then it is either your mishandling/mistreatment, or basically a foal with an unsuitable, unpleasant temperament. </font>
Ane yes 60% improvement in one week is very possible, he has improved by more than half.
He became aggressive at a time when we moved him off our yard as we had leased it out and was resting his field.
the new yard is also an NVQ centre and his handling became varied, not just ourselves.
<font color="blue"> I'm glad you have got some experienced help from him...perhaps he will continue to improve if others are handling him properly on your behalf. </font>
I posted about him at a time when i was evaluating his beahavour and was interested in advice/ opinions.
Unfortunately your reply was one typical of one of those annoying livery types who cant resist being smart.
Sorry but thats how it sounded.
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<font color="blue"> I know, you wanted everyone to sympathise with your production of a 'vicious' biting youngster who had, according to your post, bitten people badly, and whom you couldn't trust. But as all irresponsible people, you don't want to take any responsibility for his behaviour yourself.
If my horses are gits, it's because I am not disciplining them appropriately, or managing them correctly. I would suggest you are not exempt from this concept of responsibility either.
S
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Sorry to dissapoint you but we did not get any help in dealing with our youngster, we dealt with the issue ourselves-as responsible horse owners.

Can you truly believe that i was looking for sympathy in my post, now come on, that is just silly.
When did being honest and discussing a problem with other forum members become a failing or open to criticism?

You have posted yet again with no intention but to be obtuse, which is sad really but you must get something out of it. I feel sorry for you.
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[ QUOTE ]
Sorry to dissapoint you but we did not get any help in dealing with our youngster, we dealt with the issue ourselves-as responsible horse owners.
<font color="blue"> So when you say 'his handling became varied not just ourselves' that means....just yourselves? You change your story constantly....it is hard to keep up. </font>
Can you truly believe that i was looking for sympathy in my post, now come on, that is just silly.
<font color="blue"> No, maybe letting a 2yo become vicious and bit people to hurt them could be considered 'silly' though - oh, I forgot, it wasn't YOUR fault, was it. No, he was born bad. Oh, wait, no he wasn't. It was just circumstance...which has changed now others are handling him...oh, wait, again - no, you're handling him...but you couldn't sort him out originally (before lots of people advised you to beat him with blue pipe).
D'uh! </font>
When did being honest and discussing a problem with other forum members become a failing or open to criticism?
<font color="blue"> It's an open forum, you can ask for as much advice as you need. But you also have to recognise that people won't always say what you want to hear. Then, I suppose, you could become abusive, call them 'silly' or 'obtuse' but I'm sure you are more skilled in discussion than that
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You have posted yet again with no intention but to be obtuse, which is sad really but you must get something out of it. I feel sorry for you.
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<font color="blue"> Thanks, all sympathy accepted. I really am a tragic figure. My youngsters don't bite me or kick me, I've never sold a horse on Projecthorse because I couldn't manage it....life is hard in Shilasdairland.
S
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My youngsters don't bite me or kick me, I've never sold a horse on Projecthorse because I couldn't manage it....life is hard in Shilasdairland.
S
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Neither has Blueberry, come on lighten up
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My views are that if you make the decision to breed from a mare, pick the stallion, and produce a foal, then you are responsible for its welfare and behaviour until such a time as you sell it. And even then you have a responsibility to ensure it is equipped to have a happy, useful future working life.
To breed a youngster and say 'What a shame, it's crippled - someone else have it' (look at Fuglyhorseoftheday) or to allow a youngster to develop behavioural issues without trying to correct them asap, is, in my opinion, unfair to the horse, and the future owners/handlers.
That is why I say someone who allows their youngster to bite/kick/strike is irresponsible.
If that doesn't apply to your Mum, fine. But it is still my opinion. She is welcome to her opinion about me.
S
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whats this `blue pipe` stuff about?
is it blue water pipe and how do you use it?

sorry,never heard of this before.
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[ QUOTE ]
whats this `blue pipe` stuff about?
is it blue water pipe and how do you use it?

sorry,never heard of this before.
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It's blue plastic piping stuff...quite lightweight, and about two inches in diameter. It may be for water pipes, but I don't really know, as I don't use it myself (it was other posters who suggested it).
I believe it is used to discipline naughty ponies because it doesn't hurt them but makes an impressive thwack noise.
S
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thanks.thought it was summat like that.is it a pirelli thing?

(wouldn`t resort to that myself,sounds a bit nasty to me and like it would cause more probs imho)


edited to say,didnt think you suggested it,shildsair.
 
An old horseman we know used to use a length about 3 feet long, he never touched a horse with it, but loaded ours in a waggon by quietly walking behind her with the pipe visible and VERY gently waving, the bolshy Appy walked up the ramp with absolutely no problem when Jos was there with the length of blue pipe.
 
[ QUOTE ]
thanks.thought it was summat like that.is it a pirelli thing?

(wouldn`t resort to that myself,sounds a bit nasty to me and like it would cause more probs imho)


edited to say,didnt think you suggested it,shildsair.

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Ok
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I don't think it is nasty, they had some at a hunt yard where I stabled one of mine...and I tried thwacking OH with it
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- you can't really hurt someone because the air resistance (it is quite thick) seems to slow it down...and it sort of flexes slightly.
S
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Yes of course that is your opinion, she has her opinion and I have mine.

Blueberry is not my mother.

By addressing the matter does she remain irresponsible or do you mean it should have never happened in the first place?

Blueberry is experienced and has broken/home schooled many youngsters which have turned out to be shoolmasters/mistresses and her daughter competes at a high level.

She must be doing something right along the way.
 
It's an open forum, you can ask for as much advice as you need. But you also have to recognise that people won't always say what you want to hear!!!!!

Agree entirely,there are soooo many people with varying views on here that it should all be taken to the head not the heart!
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S is great
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(No i am not stalking you u bugger,lmao)she will say what she thinks and offer her views,regardless of how the said person will react(after all we ask!!!!)!
I respect the gal for that,all you get is honesty!!!If we dont want to hear others opinions then we should not post in the first place eh!!
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[ QUOTE ]
thanks.thought it was summat like that.is it a pirelli thing?

(wouldn`t resort to that myself,sounds a bit nasty to me and like it would cause more probs imho)


edited to say,didnt think you suggested it,shildsair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Def NOT Parelli, it's an old nagsman trick and a lot kinder than it sounds - don't knock it until you actually understand the principle
 
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Meant to say....He is a cracker,would like to see a head on shot!!
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But with mouth closed and ears forward
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S

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PMSL
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!!!I should have known better eh!!!!
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I appreciate people dont always hear what they want to hear, Blueberry is just being honest too, she would not have posted in the first place if she was scared of opinions.

I can be blunt but it doesnt make me right all the time (unless I'm in discussion with my hubsband)
 
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