What do you think of these hooves?

Wagtail

Wagtail

Horse servant
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Anyone any idea why my horse should be so foot sore since being shod? She was sound when shod in imprints (glue ons), but is really sore in metal? She is sound barefoot on the left hoof but not the right. Any ideas? Thanks

Right front:

rightfrontfront.jpg

rightfrontside.jpg

rightfrontheel.jpg

rightfrontheel.jpg

rightfrontsole.jpg


left front:

leftfrontfront.jpg

leftfrontside.jpg

leftfrontheel.jpg

leftfrontsole.jpg


ETA The chips out of her hoof wall are where the imprints were fitted.[/
 
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Wagtail if you look at the hairline I think the right fore is drastically unbalanced and much higher on the right hand side. If you bisect the frog on the sole shot you can see how asymmetric the foot is. the other has been allowed to grow a marked deviation - flare, but not really - which has resulted in a much more symmetrical sole shot. I can see every reason why your horse would be lame on the right fore and less so on the left. I think both feet would grow a very different balance if you were able to work her without shoes.

I know she is not sound. If she was mine I would have the shoes off and be walking her miles on tarmac in hand until she rebalanced her feet for herself.

Disclaimer: photos can be very deceptive and not be representative of real life.
 
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Thank you! Any idea why she should be 100% sound in imprints? I have phoned the farrier, the shoes are coming off Thursday if there's no improvement. I only shod her in imprints because she was six weeks almost non weight bearing barefoot on her right front, after two years sound, but laminitis ruined the structure of the right fore. No lami now though, that's one thing I am certain of. Your comments do make sense to me. She is certainly better barefoot than in the metal shoes.
 
Am I right in thinking that imprints have some give to them? If so that could explain why she is struggling in metal that don't give at all - and given the imbalance the impact of her walking on them might be reverberating much worse.

Could you boot and pad?
 
TigerTail said:
Am I right in thinking that imprints have some give to them? If so that could explain why she is struggling in metal that don't give at all - and given the imbalance the impact of her walking on them might be reverberating much worse.

Could you boot and pad?
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Yes, imprints have 'give'. She won't keep them on though since she came in at night as she's a door banger. :rolleyes: Plan is to take off the shoes if they don't settle by Thursday and buy some boots and pads.
 
TBH I would be seeking a better farrier.

On the Black foot
If all the holes that are in her foot are nail holes then at some time the horse has been nailed very high, possibly travelling into live tissue. New clench's appear to be sited below old holes.

On the white foot apart from being very unbalanced the nails look to be clenched way too tight - you shouldn't be able to see a big space above the clench.

The seating for the toe clip is cut excessively - it should be just enough to allow the toes clip to be flush with the wall.
 
At least the boots last and she cant boot them off on the door! What about having a stall guardy thing and the door open until she's been fed? Or leave her out and feed out?
 
Tnavas said:
TBH I would be seeking a better farrier.

On the Black foot
If all the holes that are in her foot are nail holes then at some time the horse has been nailed very high, possibly travelling into live tissue. New clench's appear to be sited below old holes.

On the white foot apart from being very unbalanced the nails look to be clenched way too tight - you shouldn't be able to see a big space above the clench.

The seating for the toe clip is cut excessively - it should be just enough to allow the toes clip to be flush with the wall.
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The shoes were originally put on on Saturday. But she went badly lame and the farrier came back yesterday, removed the shoes and seated them out. He then used smaller nails to nail them back on. She was not lame immediately, the lameness came on over 24 hours. She was slightly better after the shoes were put back on, but still far from comfortable on two bute. Other people don't think she looks that bad, but I know her and she has a good striding walk normally. :( This farrier shod her for 5 years and never lamed her once before, or any other horse in the 8 years he's been coming here. I'm really puzzled.
 
Tnavas said:
Wagtail do you think she might be brewing an abscess by any chance?
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She has had some wet bruising come out, but that has all dried up. She was fine before the shoeing but I wonder if the nails have aggravated something? There is absolutely no heat in her hooves and no digital pulses. But I wonder if due to the bruising, the tight nails are causing her pain that otherwise wouldn't happen?
 
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Wagtail nail binds take 24 - 48 hours, unlike a nail prick, which is immediate. If the nail lies on the laminae but not into it, it takes the 24-48 hours of wiggling to produce the damage.

Hope that helps.
 
Thanks. I think if she is no better tomorrow I will see if the farrier will come and take her shoes off. Poor girl. So frustrating too that it's happened after 8 weeks of rehab when she has had 3 whole years off due to her shoulder injury. Will set me back a while!
 
Nail bind is when the farrier as hammered the nail in very, very close to the junction between sensitive and insensitive laminae. The pressure of the nail on to the sensitive laminae can produce discomfort that ranges from mild to severe lameness.
 
Being brutally honest, there is a lot that a good farrier could do to those hooves.

I don't want to criticise your farrier, I am sure you have never had an issue with him, but I would strongly advise you to get someone else, with good local recommendation to have a look.

A good farrier can balance the hooves just as well as barefoot on tarmac which is not all that easy for a footsore horse.

Also, a good farrier can offer you other alternatives, such as aluminium shoes for example...not for every horse, but brilliant for some.

What you have to remember is, what starts in the hoof can travel up the leg. Many secondary lamenesses can be caused by poorly balanced and shod hooves, causing long term problems, so it is always a good idea to get a fresh pair of eyes to take a look.

Don't worry about offending your farrier. If you went to the doctor and things weren't working, you wouldn't think twice about getting a second opinion...these are your horses hooves...don't hesitate to get them looked at by another farrier.

Out of interest, how long does your farrier take to do shoe all four feet from start to finish?

Mine takes at least an hour and 20 minutes and my mare has great feet...thanks to good breeding and his good work. But he still takes that long making sure they are perfectly balanced. He will from time to time want to see her walk and trot to check how she is moving, asses the arch of her movement etc, all to make sure that she is as balanced and comfortable as can be.

Definitely worth a think. If that was my horse, I would get a new farrier. They should not look like that after just a few days. I agree it could well be nail bind. Clenches that big could also allow infection to enter and it is not always possible to feel the heat changes in the early stages.
 
_GG_ said:
Being brutally honest, there is a lot that a good farrier could do to those hooves.

I don't want to criticise your farrier, I am sure you have never had an issue with him, but I would strongly advise you to get someone else, with good local recommendation to have a look.

A good farrier can balance the hooves just as well as barefoot on tarmac which is not all that easy for a footsore horse.

Also, a good farrier can offer you other alternatives, such as aluminium shoes for example...not for every horse, but brilliant for some.

What you have to remember is, what starts in the hoof can travel up the leg. Many secondary lamenesses can be caused by poorly balanced and shod hooves, causing long term problems, so it is always a good idea to get a fresh pair of eyes to take a look.

Don't worry about offending your farrier. If you went to the doctor and things weren't working, you wouldn't think twice about getting a second opinion...these are your horses hooves...don't hesitate to get them looked at by another farrier.

Out of interest, how long does your farrier take to do shoe all four feet from start to finish?

Mine takes at least an hour and 20 minutes and my mare has great feet...thanks to good breeding and his good work. But he still takes that long making sure they are perfectly balanced. He will from time to time want to see her walk and trot to check how she is moving, asses the arch of her movement etc, all to make sure that she is as balanced and comfortable as can be.

Definitely worth a think. If that was my horse, I would get a new farrier. They should not look like that after just a few days. I agree it could well be nail bind. Clenches that big could also allow infection to enter and it is not always possible to feel the heat changes in the early stages.
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Oh gawd, I really like my farrier. He is always bang on time, will come out at a moments notice at weekends and his days off, is absolutely lovely with all the horses and so patient, as well as being a thoroughly nice guy. He takes aroud 50 minutes for a full set. His trims don't take long though. But he has worked with Martin Deacon and always keeps up to date with things. Oh dear, I really don't want to change farriers but I don't want a lame horse either!
 
No one has mentioned diet yet, if a good plain diet works for a barefoot horse it should also be used for a shod horse, imho.
Micronised linseed meal [Charnwood Milling]: helps skin, hoof, and joints
Balanced minerals with 6->9gms magnesium per day [light->medium work].
Hi fibre-low sugar eg non molassed sugar beet/Fast Fibre: digestion and energy.
I would never go back to shoe-ing as I think that it is so fraught with dangers.
I would certainly suggest these hooves are not as good as they can be, I realise your farrier may be reliable and so on, but opinions vary ........ maybe remove the shoes, and see how things are after week of walking in hand on tarmac or surfaces which help her.
 
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I have called the farrier to come and take the shoes off. They have not settled and even on two danilon and in the sand she is holding her right front up. I don't think she's that happy on the left front either. I just wish I hadn't tried them. But I couldn't see why she shouldn't be sound in shoes. She was before. I am just gutted as she was doing so well coming back into work and seemed so happy. Poor thing.
 
Don't beat yourself up Wagtail. You made the best decision at the time and hindsight is always the most wonderful thing. Time somebody found out how to make it available to us when we need it. ;)

Fingers crossed removing the shoes (and nails) helps her. x
 
wench said:
I dont think a second opinion from another farrier would be too problematic.

I am no expert, but the condition of the hooves dont look great. Have you tried using this on hooves: http://www.animalmedicationdirect.c...refill-for-horses-454ml-cut-heal-pr-4612.html
It has really helped to tidy up a few of my horses' hooves
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You cant paint stuff on to improve condition - that comes from the feed stimulation and environment.

Did you get the boots ordered Wagtail? Let us know how you get on :)
 
TigerTail said:
You cant paint stuff on to improve condition - that comes from the feed stimulation and environment.

Did you get the boots ordered Wagtail? Let us know how you get on :)
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I am waiting until my sister gets back from the states because she gets a discount as she's a BF trimmer. I am thinking of getting the easyboot gloves. I would try the cavello but I believe they come in pairs and my girls feet are different sizes. She can borrow my geldings boots until they come. They fit the right foot but are very slightly large on the left so will only use them if she's especially sore.
 
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