Would be questioning why a 12yo stallion is not being ridden for the pics and apparently has no performance record.
Distinctly average.
Yes, but only in the context of all stallions available, including the should-have-been-geldings and the Olympic potentials.
Sorry, you've assumed I've made a comparison, that I haven't.
Unfortunately, negative one-liners with no context or explanations rather lend themselves to interpretation, though I wouldn't say assumptions .
Yes, but only in the context of all stallions available, including the should-have-been-geldings and the Olympic potentials.
He is well put together and has a tidy jump, no screaming conformation faults and from the picture from Sporthorse Data, where he is standing there with his leadrope on the floor, might very well have a good temperament...
He is therefore on the very nice side of the good allrounder bracket - which represents what 90% of UK riders need and should therefore be 90% of the foals bred... because 85% of UK riders can't handle or ride one side of a GP potential and the 5% who can don't want the hassle. So when those magnificently bred foals fail to reach their "potential", they have no real place in the leisure, RC, unaffiliated or low affiliated, 90% of the riding population... a lot like most of the failed racehorses, when the meat man appears to be the most sensible outcome.
I am not and never will advocate breeding from crap, but he isn't crap. Not a world beater perhaps, but potentially an attractive, sensible, sound sire of an attractive, sensible, sound allrounder. Average for some. Damn great for others
Hit the nail on the head there, GR!!!!
At 200 pounds he is appealing to the lower end of the market. Sorry but these stallions undermine the work & costs that responsible stallion owners go to in ensuring their horses are graded. By being graded, generally they have passed some sort of health check & may even have X-Rays. I do feel it is difficult to make a judgement on the photos & I would rather use something like him then a 2yo colt. If you want to know if he is any good then at 12yo he should have something under saddle, but then you need to know what the mare was like. His stud fee makes him worth a gamble, though I would hope people would actually check him out & see what his offspring are like.
I agree 100% about the market for safe sensible riding horses at an affordable price. The forum is full of posts from people who feel overhorsed.
Out of interest, Adorable Alice, what would you consider "proven" in an amateur's allrounder?
What I meant really is what specific characteristics in an allrounder stallion would you consider to make that stallion "proven". Competition results? Great temperament? Progeny's competition results?
To me, it would be that stallion being a great hunter, happily going in a mixed field with an amateur on board, doing working hunter at County shows, a bit of dressage, show jumping, hunter trialling, again with an amateur and mares around. Also consistently producing progeny with outstanding temperaments snd rideability for the average leisure rider.
Of the list you've given*(as fitting in my definition above)Archie and Kings Composer fit the bill perfectly... though I have read on this very forum some criticism of KC along the lines of what has he done of note? and why so few of his progeny are showing up top in the rankings? or has anyone ever seen a pic of him under saddle? That doesn't make him any less of an absolute cracking sire of good competitive amateur rides. And to an extent, there lies the problem... how do you find out what stallions' progeny are doing when they are "only" being fantastic leisure horses and their "results" are not in the public domain? Might be the case for this stallion?
Of the others, I'm not convinced about Primitive Proposal, a personal opinion, and Another Hoarwithy might have been a bit racey for the amateur market.
I don't know enough about the others to pass comment.
also like this other stallion at min.
http://www.donedeal.co.uk/for-sale/horses/4643905