Dressage What does a £1.5million dressage 4 year old look like? This!

Yes, I was meaning those who tend to go a bit goat on a hill so the front legs are not vertical, as in fuego and rubi.

There was a fb post a few weeks ago of piaffes in silhouette for people to rank, so you couldn't tell who the combination was.

edit- line drawings, they added names after
86501219_3335433963151369_2558646042681671680_n.jpg

https://www.facebook.com/stepintodr...Ilm0rTSFYjpsSYFp91oSVt55YzxFKUA0ijkm8Xn&ifg=1
 
Wheels said:
If you compare the pic of rubi to this of Philippe Karl - you can see that this horse has shortened his base but by bringing the hind legs underneath and bending more, the loins are full, poll high and no overbening - front static leg is just about vertical and you can easily see that the horse could take this through to levadeView attachment 53691
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I am guessing the hind pastern/fetlock is not a sign of hypermobility?
 
ester said:
Yes, I was meaning those who tend to go a bit goat on a hill so the front legs are not vertical, as in fuego and rubi.

There was a fb post a few weeks ago of piaffes in silhouette for people to rank, so you couldn't tell who the combination was.

edit- line drawings, they added names after
86501219_3335433963151369_2558646042681671680_n.jpg

https://www.facebook.com/stepintodr...Ilm0rTSFYjpsSYFp91oSVt55YzxFKUA0ijkm8Xn&ifg=1
Click to expand...

I guess it's a bit of a cheat with the names but how would the people who arent I agreement with FEI/modern dressage score each of these and why?
 
PapaverFollis said:
1, 6, 8, 3, 2, 9, 7, 5, 4.

2 is at a slight angle view though so 2 and 9 or even 3 and 2 might be swapped depending.
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Why?

Not having a dig, genuinely interested. I know the general requirements but have never ridden or trained it and dont know all the nuances. I've read more classical dressgae books than "modern" but barely scratched the surface.
 
Drop of hindquarters, weight off forehand, tilt of pelvis, engagement of loins, poll highest point, nose in front of vertical, rein contact light without horse having dropped behind it.
 
oldie48 said:
I am guessing the hind pastern/fetlock is not a sign of hypermobility?
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Is it possible for the horse to bring the hind quarters that far underneath without the fetlock lowering towards the ground?

I think there is always some lowering in very collected movements such as piaffe and canter pirouettes
 
PapaverFollis said:
Now Fuego could chuck in a nice Levade I'm sure. Look at the difference in fetlock drop on that front leg. For me I don't think Parzival is actually performing piaffe. He's trotting on the spot.
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I adored watching Fuego. Although I know he perhaps wasn't considered 'the best' I find the expression in his work quite inspirational and I much prefer that style of horse and riding (as presented publicly - I don't know how he is ridden outside international competition of course). I have to say that his 2010 test is something that I always find brings me to tears.
 
Wheels said:
Is it possible for the horse to bring the hind quarters that far underneath without the fetlock lowering towards the ground?

I think there is always some lowering in very collected movements such as piaffe and canter pirouettes
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Don't know but it makes me realise how easy it is to focus on a particular part of the horse rather than see the horse's movement as a whole especially when it's a still.
 
pour moi c`est facile, numero 6 le premier,

fuego had a quality of unstifled exuberance, he wanted to do it, and juan must have had some awesome moments

i like no 6 because the rider is poised, the horse is relaxed the rein is soft and the head is in front of the vertical
 
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oldie48 said:
Don't know but it makes me realise how easy it is to focus on a particular part of the horse rather than see the horse's movement as a whole especially when it's a still.
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Similarly, all the stills are not showing like moments of demonstrating piaffe.
I'd imagine that many of the more modern ones are taken from stills in competition which is, like it or not,a different beast to practicing Classical Dressage outside the show arena.

I'm not saying that Laura G's horse would necessarily show more of a sitting piaffe outside of the show arena or nuno's might be less if it was in the middle of a set test with all the other challenges that brings... we'll never know ;)

As an aside, from the angle of the reins it appears that nuno is riding on the curb of, i think I've seen that elsewhere, just another example of difference ?
 
Wheels said:
Which do you think is best and why?
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I'm torn between 1 and 6 as what I consider best. I keep flip flopping between them. As said above it's a second in time so you would need to see it all in context to make the call.

Theres also going to be a difference because some of the pictures are from competitions and some are training.

They both have the "sit"/lowering/collection and poll at highest point and all the points that PF listed previously. 1 is the most pleasing picture to me.

No. 4 is the bottom of my list as it appears in the picture to be everything that it should not be (still better than I could ever train)
 
I am loving how this thread has evolved through all sorts of dressage topics ?.

For me personally, I would rather a horse went slightly base narrow in a piaffe due to a bit of travel/lack of strength then have no attempt at sit or be dipped in the back (obviously neither would be a 10 but the first can be worked the second is not really a piaffe at all). When I've started introducing piaffe from the ground you get a bit of BTV as they work out the balance etc.

As for the pictures 1 or 2 are my favourite :)
 
the difference for me between 1 and 6 is that 6`s head is more in front of the vertical, making the back softer, and the croup not so low, but the tail carried in a lovely soft flagging way...... magical
 
Another interesting way of looking at it is to think of how far people can progress in dressage because it is about the training. If your horse can't physically clear jumps then you are out of luck when it comes to showjumping. Whereas if your horse is physically sound, willing and you put in the hard work you can do very well in dressage. You mightn't worry Carl or Charlotte but you can make a decent show of it.
 
In relation to the illustrations of piaffe above, I wonder is the issue the difference in physical build between the warmblood and the iberian. Perhaps the degree of lowering that the Iberian can do isn't possible for warmbloods or maybe it is but it's too difficult on their bodies to ask it of them. Maybe that's how the bouncy piaffe came about and also the lifting high of the front legs to give the illusion of 'sit'.
 
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Hmmm.. not so sure about that, the outline pic of philippe karl is him on a warm blood and whilst it is not a perfect outline, the hind end is certainly lowered. I've also got a book by anja beran that shows good lowering with warmbloods too.

Even if a warm blood cannot lower as much as an iberian horse they should still have the poll as the highest point and should not be btv, especially in the piaffe that is down to training
 
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