What does 'work ethic' in a horse mean to you?

ycbm

ycbm

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I've often heard 'work ethic' used in talking about under performing horses and a current thread got me thinking. It isn't a term I've ever used about a horse, because for me it really doesn't fit. I think that a work ethic is something adults instill in children that you must work to earn what you want and/or to support your family/community.

I don't think it's possible for a horse to think that way.

If I did use the term, I would use it to describe a horse who seems willing to do the work he is being asked to do. For me, then, a horse lacking work ethic would be a horse who for some reason is not willing to do what he is being asked to do. And his owner should ideally be finding out why and fixing it.

What does work ethic in a horse mean to you?
 
I may have have a think about this one. I can not see,at this time, it applies to horses, maybe it does to the rider trying to improve. I think that often these terms when applied to horses are just lazy. It's easier to blame the animal then look to the rider. Like blaming the horse for taking the wrong canter lead. The animal takes the easiest option and usually that's the Correct lead if it's not doing that it's being blocked. It does not sit up all night trying to think of ways to piss off its rider. I think work ethic could be lumped with that. Now I do believe some horses are easier to train but that's a different matter.
 
Good question!
For me it's a horse that actively wants to work, rather than one that quite sweetly does what is asked but would happily spend their life in a field instead. Though that's quite different from a human 'work ethic'
 
A trainer once said she admired that all my horses had a great work ethic so I asked her want she meant
To her it meant they come willingly into the school to train knowing and understanding what's going to be expected they are not stressy and are always generous with their forwardness .

I do think horse horse ability to work well and hard in a generous way can be spoiled by a huge long list of things to list a few .
Poor training in the riding away stage
To much boring school work
Bad saddles
Sore mouths , backs ,hocks ,legs etc etc these things even after they have been fixed can have a long or permanent impact on a horse generousity .
I suppose horse with a good work ethic are generous with their energy and concentration .
 
I agree with DabDab.

I think a good work ethic is a horse who genuinely enjoys their job, is willing, and tries.

I definitely think there are horses who are naturally slower paced (or lazier if you will), horses who have different attitudes and horses who don't want to do certain jobs. In my experience of horse ownership I've had horses that aren't forward and are intrinsically lazy, and horses who aren't keen on certain jobs such as dressage, but absolutely love (and thus have a good work ethic for) jumping.

Horses, like humans, have their own personalities! However we do anthropomorphise them, and I agree that problems with the horse and rider can affect work ethic.
 
DabDab said:
Good question!
For me it's a horse that actively wants to work, rather than one that quite sweetly does what is asked but would happily spend their life in a field instead. Though that's quite different from a human 'work ethic'
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I haven't met a single horse in my entire life that wouldn't rather spend it's life in a field. Perhaps I have nicer fields on offer or something.

Work ethic is something I equate to my (working) dogs. They only care about work once they are trained, they don't want to play they want to go to work (sheep).

Horses I would use the term trainability I think. Perhaps I've been lucky as while my horses lack "work ethic" they all are highly trainable and happy to do their best for me in anything I've wanted to do.
 
It's a phrase I hadn't come across being applied to a horse before reading the other thread today. I would struggle to view a horse as being capable of possessing a work ethic as the horse can't really have an idea of what its working towards. A person with a work ethic might be working towards a goal whether its earning money, getting promoted or just being as efficient as possible but a horse doesn't know what its working towards as a goal.
I would just see it that some horses are keen and try hard to please whilst others for whatever reason are less keen. I don't think horses consider whether they share the same goals as their riders and decide if they feel inclined to work towards it.
Having said that my understanding of the phrase work ethic might just be different to the OP of the other thread.
 
FfionWinnie said:
I haven't met a single horse in my entire life that wouldn't rather spend it's life in a field. Perhaps I have nicer fields on offer or something.

Work ethic is something I equate to my (working) dogs. They only care about work once they are trained, they don't want to play they want to go to work (sheep).

Horses I would use the term trainability I think. Perhaps I've been lucky as while my horses lack "work ethic" they all are highly trainable and happy to do their best for me in anything I've wanted to do.
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My Grand Prix horse would've rather gone to a show or done work than go in the field... quite often when I put him out he'd turn round, jump the gate and return to his stable... if the wagon was going out, he'd try and get on before everyone else was ready... he had a fab work ethic... never had another like him but he truly loved his job!
 
I think that we are anthromorphising. A work ethic is an effort to "Do Better, work harder". A horse doesn't know how this feels, they just know how it feels in the moment.
 
Dave's Mam said:
I think that we are anthromorphising. A work ethic is an effort to "Do Better, work harder". A horse doesn't know how this feels, they just know how it feels in the moment.
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I don't believe that .
A horse is perfectly capable of looking at the door of the school and thinking I don't like going in there and they are also capable of knowing here's the trainer time to work and learn .
 
blitznbobs said:
My Grand Prix horse would've rather gone to a show or done work than go in the field... quite often when I put him out he'd turn round, jump the gate and return to his stable... if the wagon was going out, he'd try and get on before everyone else was ready... he had a fab work ethic... never had another like him but he truly loved his job!
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My 3yo is along these lines....been once to a little showing show and ever since has got excited as the lorry comes out, runs up the ramp and even when the lorry is empty and her friend is way off across the field stuffing grass she's standing at the gate screaming at the lorry disappearing down the drive.

I've known many like that, mainly competition bred and hardwired to do the job. They love using their bodies and their minds, their the horses you see carry on jumping long after the rider has fallen off

I do like GS's term "generosity" though
 
blitznbobs said:
My Grand Prix horse would've rather gone to a show or done work than go in the field... quite often when I put him out he'd turn round, jump the gate and return to his stable... if the wagon was going out, he'd try and get on before everyone else was ready... he had a fab work ethic... never had another like him but he truly loved his job!
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I have a grade B show jumper who is institutionalised. He can't really live like a normal horse as he's spent most of his life standing in a 12x12 stable and he would "prefer" to be in there. He would also "prefer" to be in an arena compared to say having fun on the beach because it's what he understands! I wouldn't use him as an example of a horse with a "work ethic" either although he is a truly lovely horse who is always wanting to please me he doesn't know anything else.

Luckily he is also the greediest horse I've ever known so his stomach will probably help him eventually live a fairly normal life.
 
blitznbobs said:
My Grand Prix horse would've rather gone to a show or done work than go in the field... quite often when I put him out he'd turn round, jump the gate and return to his stable... if the wagon was going out, he'd try and get on before everyone else was ready... he had a fab work ethic... never had another like him but he truly loved his job!
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The horse in my avatar would get on any lorry with an open ramp. He was seen twice to jump a round of showjumps on his own. I tested him one day at an event. He had a free choice of staying where he was and eating or resting but he scanned the far side of the huge field we were in, spotted the white start box to the cross country and took me to it.

I used to say he loved his job, not that he had a great work ethic.
 
FfionWinnie said:
I haven't met a single horse in my entire life that wouldn't rather spend it's life in a field. Perhaps I have nicer fields on offer or something.

Work ethic is something I equate to my (working) dogs. They only care about work once they are trained, they don't want to play they want to go to work (sheep).

Horses I would use the term trainability I think. Perhaps I've been lucky as while my horses lack "work ethic" they all are highly trainable and happy to do their best for me in anything I've wanted to do.
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^^ this for me.
I have one that runs up the lorry ramp and who displays enthusiasm in all her work.. she'd still rather be in the field given the choice, I feel.
 
I'm not sure that work ethic is a phrase that you can put on horses, but some definitely enjoy having a job more than others.

I retired a pony who was still fit as a fiddle and jumping as I witnessed her have a small seizure at the age of 27. I continued for a few weeks and then, despite never witnessing another, I decided that I needed to think safety and stopped riding. She had been absolutely thriving. Within a couple of weeks of retirement, she seemed very distant, she seemed to lose all zest for life. She then stopped eating and I had to put her to sleep. She has been a Wembley pony and showjumper all her life and I had kept her active the whole way. She just didn't seem to enjoy life in the field.

I do sometimes wonder if I'd not caught her having that seizure, and we'd carried on, how much longer would she have gone on for.
 
To me a horses work ethic boils down to how comfortable they are. The more comfortable they are, they better they perform. That comfort comes in the form of physically, externally and mentally (as in knowing what is being asked of them and how anxious they are)

If im thinking about my ridden horse, i think a work ethic for him is not napping to the gate/turning on a hack or rushing home. He can do these when he is uncomfy or anxious, so i try to figure out which it is and fix it. If he is his usual plodding willing animal, to me he has a good work ethic..but thats my horse and i know him..hes not going to be forward and bouncy 98% of the time cause he just can't but if he ever is its lovely and i know hes feeling really good at that time.

For the little ones, its all about the ears. My gelding always ALWAYS has back ears and grumpy face for the first show of the year - in fact the judge once placed him last at it cause he "has a grumpy face" but then it was first clip, and always a bit nippy. Following warmer shows with a bit of a coat back, he would take first and champion as a normal day out. In the first show case, he was just cold.
 
ycbm said:
The horse in my avatar would get on any lorry with an open ramp. He was seen twice to jump a round of showjumps on his own. I tested him one day at an event. He had a free choice of staying where he was and eating or resting but he scanned the far side of the huge field we were in, spotted the white start box to the cross country and took me to it.

I used to say he loved his job, not that he had a great work ethic.
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There's a difference between them loving their job and have a work ethic .
Fatty loves his job but he's not got a great work ethic .
The horse I had who epitomises what I mean was a web mare I had I got her a eight just outside of grade A sold because they felt she had not the scope for the top level she was slightly sour when I tried her she had not much formal flat work training but from her first dressage lesson she was just magic she would just work and work to learn what you wanted you could feel her grow when she heard the trainers voice I loved her .
 
ycbm said:
The horse in my avatar would get on any lorry with an open ramp. He was seen twice to jump a round of showjumps on his own. I tested him one day at an event. He had a free choice of staying where he was and eating or resting but he scanned the far side of the huge field we were in, spotted the white start box to the cross country and took me to it.

I used to say he loved his job, not that he had a great work ethic.
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Yes, OK I do agree. A love of work is a better description than work ethic, in which case I don't think horses do have work ethic in the sense that they have varying degrees of a sense of duty to work. I don't think horses really do duty
 
Goldenstar said:
I don't believe that .
A horse is perfectly capable of looking at the door of the school and thinking I don't like going in there and they are also capable of knowing here's the trainer time to work and learn .
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Yes, I agree with that. We have all come across horses that failed in one field and blossomed in another. Or horses that really do get bored with constant schooling/jumping. Or there are other horses who come over to the stable door or field gate and say "what are we going to do today?"
 
Goldenstar said:
There's a difference between them loving their job and have a work ethic .
Fatty loves his job but he's not got a great work ethic .
The horse I had who epitomises what I mean was a web mare I had I got her a eight just outside of grade A sold because they felt she had not the scope for the top level she was slightly sour when I tried her she had not much formal flat work training but from her first dressage lesson she was just magic she would just work and work to learn what you wanted you could feel her grow when she heard the trainers voice I loved her .
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I'm not sure your example illustrates the difference GS? Your mare loved dressage, not jumping. Did she work to learn what you wanted or what she wanted and it just chanced to be the same? My gelding loved jumping and would consent to do dressage in order to get to the jumping
 
Although it's not a term I use, to me it would mean a horse who is "on side" and attempts what is asked of him/her - it's not a measure of the level of schooling but more an indication of willingness probably due to the trust and confidence they have in their rider. So a green horse could have a good work ethic as could a more experienced horse.
 
Interestingly, the Diva is a 'reluctant' worker. Our school is in the direction of our farm ride so we headed off that way most days and she powers on when she thinks we are going round the fields. As soon as I go to make the turning to the school, she bends her neck away from it and tries to speed past! When she realises we are going in there, she becomes noticeably more reluctant and slows right down and has to be encouraged til we get there.

She much prefers hacking out.
 
I think that the problem with describing any horse as having a good work ethic is that it allows people whose horses are unhappy doing the job they are being asked to do (and would be happier if a physical problem was fixed or a different job was found) to carry on and just tell themselves that the horse has a bad work ethic.



I'm not suggesting, by the way, that a horse who loves to hack should not be required to school as part of his job. We do pay the bills, after all :)
 
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ycbm said:
I'm not sure your example illustrates the difference GS? Your mare loved dressage, not jumping. Did she work to learn what you wanted or what she wanted? My gelding loved jumping and would consent to do dressage in order to get to the jumping
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No she loved loved loved jumping she was great at it she was just not going to jump a 1.50 Grand Prix she physically lacked the scope .
Her wants aren't actually relevant to her work ethic just like a workers wants are not necessary as they load shelves for example .
It's the energy and generosity and concentration she put into working that was so special .
I could do with her back right now .
 
Goldenstar said:
No she loved loved loved jumping she was great at it she was just not going to jump a 1.50 Grand Prix she physically lacked the scope .
Her wants aren't actually relevant to her work ethic just like a workers wants are not necessary as they load shelves for example .
It's the energy and generosity and concentration she put into working that was so special .
I could do with her back right now .
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Ah, right, you've just crystallized the question for me.

A worker in Asda can have zero interest in putting cab on shelves, yet apply himself to doing it as well as is possible and take some pride in doing it. For me, that's a work ethic.

Is that possible in a horse? Personally, I think the closest a horse gets to that is when it does something to please its rider that it wouldn't choose to do for itself. That would be my cob and arena work. He does it for me, willingly. I'm under no illusion that he would choose to do it for himself, in the way he chooses to do an Appleby Fair trot on the road :)

I would call that generosity, not a work ethic, but maybe it's just semantics?
 
Tbh I think it is a ridiculous concept.

In people, I would say that a work ethic means turning up every day and doing your best, even if you don't particularly enjoy the job and would rather be some where else.

Horses don't do that, they either enjoy the job that the owner/rider wants them to do, or they don't, if they don't they let the rider know. There could be loads of reasons why a horse doesn't enjoy doing what the rider wants it to do, but it is the rider's job to work out those reasons. It's the rider's ethic that should be questioned, IMO, not the horse's!
 
yep we used to just call it 'trainability' in a horse or the amount of 'try' a horse will give you and how generous they are in listening and working out what you are asking.
 
This is tricky. I suppose most, probably all, horses would rather graze and muck about in the field if left to their own devices rather than work. That said, my own horse enjoys her work and really gets into the swing of it, however we do have the odd day where she basically just says, "oh god, do we HAVE to do this?", whilst tacking up. So I don't think that she has a work ethic at all really, just really gets into her work and ends up enjoying it.
It's difficult because I suppose having a good work ethic is not the same as liking the job you're doing. And I do agree that I don't think horses have a work ethic in the traditional sense, they just don't think that way.
 
I wouldn't call it work ethic. It is more about generosity, motivation and willingness.

For example I know of ponies who are generally motivated to do whatever it takes for an easy life. That might mean working in it might mean avoiding work depending on the skill of the handler. I know of horses who do as they are asked because that is what they are trained to do and others who just want to please.

My mare is a total trier, a complete teachers pet who always wants to get the right answer. If she doesn't understand what you are asking she will just throw all the moves at you in the hope that she guesses right. She learns dressage tests and jumping exercises and hacking routes and loves to get it right. It isn't work ethic though.
 
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