What height and how much..??

[ycbm]

Thing is pssm symptoms are so widespread in some types (cobs and appaloosas for instance) that it's basically become a breed trait, saying these animals are commonly slow/lazy/stubborn etc when it's more than likely undiagnosed PSSM and not natural for them/how they should be. and any horse with PSSM that's not being managed correctly is almost certainly very uncomfortable.

There was a whole team of appaloosas eventing when I was eventing. I own a fully coloured half with no symptoms, (yet?) as you know. If think it's going far too far to suggest that PSSM symptoms are becoming a breed trait, or that any horse with it is "almost certainly very uncomfortable". Many show only the mildest symptoms and there are probably even more with none noticeable at all. I've also owned a cob who was mildly symptomatic but only needed a bit of vitamin E for whatever his particular issue might have been. I've known a ton of cobs with no symptoms at all.

This is "disease du jour" at the moment, like kissing spines was when the strong x ray machines arrived that allowed it to be found. Only a few years back, a decade maybe, most vets had never heard of it and many still know almost nothing about it - because they don't see that many.
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[ycbm]

This part is certainly true. Doesnt make those horses happy and symptom free though sadly. I would strongly question most owners abilities to judge if a PSSM horse is asymptomatic or not seeing how woefully underdiagnosed it is.

When mine was diagnosed a couple of years ago, three friends all tested their cobs, no one was having specific issues andit wouldnt have occurred to them to do it had they not seen me talking about it. All 3 came back positive. All 3 improved once treated correctly.

Without a catastrophic tie up event its very easy for owners to be oblivious.

I really do understand the point you are making, and it has truth in it.

But it concerns me greatly that people are now being advised not to buy cobs because they might have an disease that can't be detected until it is symptomatic, when most will never become symptomatic, either because they don't have it, or because it's not affecting them.

I've been around large numbers of horses all my life. I've known only 2 tie up. One was almost certainly PSSM, it tied up regularly. The other was mine, and it happened once and never again and I put it down at the time to electrolyte imbalance on a hot day.
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[maya2008]

Cobs are great! I have a mini cob cross and a bigger cob cross - both are wonderfully calm and sensible. Bigger one is literally anyone’s ride, having taken on my novice, nervous husband aged 6 and looking after him perfectly. The smaller one was backed by a child after me doing the prep work, and was pretty much get on and go. They wander along at the back of the ride, flappy reins and all - or canter sensibly next to us in the fields.

I would expect 1-2 more inches or so of height on a 3 year old if it had been well fed as a youngster. Lots and lots of filling out though.

 

[I'm Dun]

I really do understand the point you are making, and it has truth in it.

But it concerns me greatly that people are now being advised not to buy cobs because they might have an disease that can't be detected until it is symptomatic, when most will never become symptomatic, either because they don't have it, or because it's not affecting them.

I've been around large numbers of horses all my life. I've known only 2 tie up. One was almost certainly PSSM, it tied up regularly. The other was mine, and it happened once and never again and I put it down at the time to electrolyte imbalance on a hot day.
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Mine never tied up, and was performing well at a decent level. The difference before and after treatment was jaw dropping. I'd have said I didn't have any issues at all. I'd have liked a bit more movement but I appreciated her for what she was. After changing her management, mainly adding vitamin e in her case she was easy to manage and already set up in a system suitable for PSSM which no doubt helped, she was unrecognisable within a week. She grew 2 inches and her whole body changed shape. Crazy as she was already hard fit at the time.

I see cobs day in day out that are the same. Owners are happy, the horses just get on with it. it's sad for all concerned.

The type 2 testing is all a bit of a mess and we are a long way from decent reliable testing. But type 1 is easy and cheap to do. Its certainly something I would do before buying anything susceptible.

 

[TPO]

Pssm care, like ulcer regimes, are pretty much just good basic care. Ensure vit/min requirements are met, get and keep horses fit, warm up and cool down properly, rug as to individual requirements.

A lot of the self proclaimed experts that you see online spouting their theories as gospel haven't even had their horses tested. They start feeding vit E and throw on 500gm+ of rugs and claim that the "improvement" proves that their horse has it so no need to test ?

As ycbm said its just the latest fad. It does exist of course but if you look back thr past couple of years on hho the answer to every problem was pssm but prior to that every horse had ulcers and before that KS. Of course these things exist but they are diagnosible by vets not Internet gurus who are as convinced that they are right about this as they were about ulcers and so on.

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

Yikes, didn't expect this response ??....mainly just wanted to know what height he might make.?..my friend is hoping for 14.2 ideally.

As for the PSSM thing, she knows it's a possibility with his breed but not terribly concerned at this point...he's a baby and she says she'll cross that bridge when it comes to it.

 

[[153312]]

Yikes, didn't expect this response ??....mainly just wanted to know what height he might make.?..my friend is hoping for 14.2 ideally.

As for the PSSM thing, she knows it's a possibility with his breed but not terribly concerned at this point...he's a baby and she says she'll cross that bridge when it comes to it.

Sorry!
He is lovely and yes, PSSM is a possibility, but not having it is also a possibility. Regardless, he is utterly, utterly gorgeous and I hope your friend has LOTS of fun with him. (and if she ever sells I need him lol!) And yes, you need to test before saying an animal does/does not have it, rather than just chucking vitamin e at it.

 

[SEL]

Oh my cobs have never been slow or lazy ?

Nor is my part bred Appy until her muscles are playing up. She's never obviously tied up either but I went through a stage of pulling bloods to see if I could improve her management and it's eye opening. Grouchy, "just being a mare" = CK levels in xs of 1000. Stiff, slow, grumpy = elevated AST.

A pro not warming up up properly because she was being naughty and needed to be sent forward = 4 weeks off work before her CK came down below 500

I think until you live consciously with the disease it's very easy to dismiss it

 

[SEL]

Oh and the internet warriors whose horses just need a decent rug and vitamin E annoy me too ?

 

[I'm Dun]

Pssm care, like ulcer regimes, are pretty much just good basic care. Ensure vit/min requirements are met, get and keep horses fit, warm up and cool down properly, rug as to individual requirements.

A lot of the self proclaimed experts that you see online spouting their theories as gospel haven't even had their horses tested. They start feeding vit E and throw on 500gm+ of rugs and claim that the "improvement" proves that their horse has it so no need to test ?

Vitamin e is the standard answer to anything on here it seems. But PSSM care really isnt just good basic care. The jury is out on type 2, but type 1 is rife, which is shown by testing results, which are reliable for type 1. Its woefully under diagnosed, almost never mentioned by vets and very often not even noticed by owners, because the one thing the good basic care does do is keep them under the threshold for a huge catastrophic tie up event usually.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Vitamin e and warmth is often mentioned here because it works for some horses and is easy enough to try . For some reason, some posters seem to get very annoyed whenever it gets suggested ?‍.

The PSSM1 test is cheap and simple to do.

As yet, PSSM2 is only definitely diagnosed in a symptomatic horse after a -ve test for PSSM1 plus a +ve muscle biopsy.

My horse responded very well to vit E and warmth, but tested -ve for PSSM1 back in 2017. I did not get around to having the muscle biopsy done as the management change sorted her. My vet agrees that she likely has some flavour of PSSM.

 

[ihatework]

Yikes, didn't expect this response ??....mainly just wanted to know what height he might make.?..my friend is hoping for 14.2 ideally.

As for the PSSM thing, she knows it's a possibility with his breed but not terribly concerned at this point...he's a baby and she says she'll cross that bridge when it comes to it.

Don’t you just love HHO sometimes ?

 

[Patterdale]

He’s never 3 months old in those pics!? ?

 

[Hepsibah]

He’s never 3 months old in those pics!? ?

I think the pictures were three months old.