what is a lurcher?

Sorry, just get a bit fed up myself whenever people say "oh that's a nice greyhound!"...not all collies are border collies, and even borders range in their appearance! They aren't all fluffy - many are short haired - and they can have surprisingly long legs, which I don't think people notice on the fluffier coated ones.
 
Arizahn said:
Whorls, your dog may be a lab cross smooth coated collie. My dog is australian kelpie crossed with smooth coated collie, and he is very lurcher like about the head! But I met both his parents, and his appearance makes sense.

The smooth coat collie is a big, tall, lanky dog - completely different to the border collie. Smooth coats are the short hair version of the popular "Lassie dog" which is a rough coated collie. The breed was apparently originally made by crossing border collies to russian wolfhounds in the Victorian era.

So, very technically speaking, smooth coated and rough coated collies alike should count as lurchers, as russian wolfhounds are sighthounds!
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We did think that (and I do think build wise she is very similar to the smooth coated collies we have seen). She also has some merle in her she has dark spots on her body. However her coat doesn't match up as it is quite rough (although quite short hair as well). Otherwise known as a total scruff! The pictures don't really show how scruffy she is. I don't know if she would pick up that kind of coat from either a smooth coated collie or lab?

She's a very odd dog!
 
The smooth coat collie is probably where the coat came from. Mine is really smooth, but has a plume for a tail and a tufty ruff round his neck! He started out with a short thin coat, then went slightly bald on his tummy, then grew in another thin but coarse feeling coat, and now has his proper adult coat - I hope! If you were to run your hand over his back, the hair would feel wiry to the touch, but his ruff is velvety soft and fluffy.
 
whorls said:
We did think that (and I do think build wise she is very similar to the smooth coated collies we have seen). She also has some merle in her she has dark spots on her body. However her coat doesn't match up as it is quite rough (although quite short hair as well). Otherwise known as a total scruff! The pictures don't really show how scruffy she is. I don't know if she would pick up that kind of coat from either a smooth coated collie or lab?

She's a very odd dog!
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bearded collies are very popular in lurcher breeding and the facial markings are typical, i would say bearded collie/border collie/greyhound
 
I have seen a few collie cross labs with funny coats...I think you are more likely to get throwback traits from crosses. Labs have a lot of different breeds in their ancestry, as the people who imported the original dogs outcrossed to other dogs to maintain diversity at times. Newfoundlands were used, and iirc spaniels too.

Oops, sorry - off topic!
 
Jools1234 said:
so alec, in my pictures on page 2 what sort/type/breeding would you say you say dog is?
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When I looked at your photobucket pics an hour or so ago, they loaded. Now they wont!! So I'm relying upon memory. I'd say that the dog in the pic, may well be of Greyhound on one side, and the other being half bred Greyhound, and looking at his (is he male?) rather hard eye that there's a bull breed of some sort, possibly a staff. I can't remember what the dog's ears looked like, so often a good indication of breeding.

It's true that with some dogs, the route which their breeding has taken, will be obvious. Others, such as yours could well be a part bred GSD, as it sometimes isn't immediately obvious about their parentage. I can't see the pics now, for some reason, and I only gave them a cursory glance. Do you know the answer to your question?

Another thought about the breeding of Lurchers, is that when the desired results are achieved, then it's time to go back and do it again. It's unusual for an archetypal and beautiful cross bred bitch, to be put to a similarly crossbred mate, and for the puppies to replicate their parents. They're almost invariably too heavy, and start to regress back to the non-sight-hound lineage. There may well be examples which deny this, so don't shoot me now, that's what I think!!

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
When I looked at your photobucket pics an hour or so ago, they loaded. Now they wont!! So I'm relying upon memory. I'd say that the dog in the pic, may well be of Greyhound on one side, and the other being half bred Greyhound, and looking at his (is he male?) rather hard eye that there's a bull breed of some sort, possibly a staff. I can't remember what the dog's ears looked like, so often a good indication of breeding.

It's true that with some dogs, the route which their breeding has taken, will be obvious. Others, such as yours could well be a part bred GSD, as it sometimes isn't immediately obvious about their parentage. I can't see the pics now, for some reason, and I only gave them a cursory glance. Do you know the answer to your question?

Another thought about the breeding of Lurchers, is that when the desired results are achieved, then it's time to go back and do it again. It's unusual for an archetypal and beautiful cross bred bitch, to be put to a similarly crossbred mate, and for the puppies to replicate their parents. They're almost invariably too heavy, and start to regress back to the non-sight-hound lineage. There may well be examples which deny this, so don't shoot me now, that's what I think!!

Alec.
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she is 12th generation lurcher to lurcher, 1/12 collie, 1/16 staffy the rest is greyhound. the reason i asked is i have raced and shown her a fair bit and the chap who bred her works, races and shows his dogs and 6 people have approached me over the years asking if she is one of his dogs cos she is so true to his type
 
Please can I join in? We have what the rescue centre thought is a lab cross grey. Vet and rescue think so and mostly because she has come out on the heavy side she was abandoned with her litter mate.

According to local lurcher people and the greyhound experts round here, is not uncommon for unscrupulous breeders to dump an F1 Lab cross grey if too heavy as they only want the lightest pups from the litter for breeding for lamping etc. Is this likely in people's opinion? She was dumped at about ten weeks with her brother who looked a lot more greyhound type. The rescue (RGT) said also the 'speed underneath' approach may be why he was dumped but almost certainly the two of them where just surplus to requirements and the breeder will have just kept what they wanted. They where both in good condition when dumped and appear to have been well handled and not traumatised.'


Seems odd to me to raise them then just dump tho.

She is absolutely beautiful and quite possibly the most laid back and gentle dog I have ever known, even at adolescent age but is quite a lot chunkier than my ex racers.

Ahhhh cant upload my picture now.... Will try later.
 
lots of lurchers get dumped if they are not good workers but in all my years with them i have never knowingly meet a lab cross greyhound that has been bred by the 'unscrupulous' crowd, they dont tend to be keen on labs, so photos would be good if/when you can
 
Jools1234 said:
she is 12th generation lurcher to lurcher, 1/12 collie, 1/16 staffy the rest is greyhound. the reason i asked is i have raced and shown her a fair bit and the chap who bred her works, races and shows his dogs and 6 people have approached me over the years asking if she is one of his dogs cos she is so true to his type
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Perhaps those dogs which carry a high enough percentage of one particular breed, on both sides of the history, and in the case of yours Greyhound, have the ability to stick more to type, when they're bred. That was, I suppose, how every breed of dog evolved, wasn't it?

What ever it is, if you find a system which works, you stick with it! ;)

Alec.
 
Bedlington Whippet lurcher. About as small as lurchers come (18.5" TTS). 10 kilos. In this particular cross the Beddie has been very dominant, but when the coat is wet, the whippety build becomes much more evident. Speed and turning agility second to none, very soft mouthed, recall pretty good - but Ronnie's just not got what it takes to be a working lurcher (hence he's my much loved pet!)

Ron24031204.jpg
 
Alec Swan said:
I've never understood the distinctions which are offered up which would advise that there's a difference between a Lurcher, and a Longdog. They are one and the same animal, in my view, despite what Plummer or Walsh may say!

The name Lurcher, so I understand, came from those greyhounds which used their brains and ran cunning. Their only intent was on killing the hare, and as they were actually racing, such a dog was of little use. Such a dog was, however, of use to the man who wasn't concerned with points, but with killing hares.

Lurchers, and again these are my views, need to be bred with the speed underneath, in other words, the dam needs to be the Greyhound, or the whippet, or the Saluki (if you must), and the covering dog can be just about anything. The combinations are endless, and some are unlikely. I once had a GSD/Greyhound dog, who was perhaps, my ideal.

If the Greyhound is to be the dam, then using a dog as the sire, which has no pace and/or no brain, is a waist of time. Greyhound/Bedlington, Greyhound/Deerhound (though they can all so often get up to 28", which I think's a bit big). Perhaps the best cross that I've seen which has been Consistent, is the Greyhound bitch which is put to a Collie/Greyhound (or just about anything/Greyhound) dog.

Strangely, and there will be those who don't agree with me, for a proper dog, one side of the equation needs to be a purebred dog, of speed. It's very rarely that a Lurcher/Lurcher works, as the puppies end up too heavy.

A quick thought about Salukis; they are distance dogs and will follow their hare for 1000 yards, and more. They have remarkable stamina. Many seem to think that Greyhounds are stupid, they're anything but. Salukis, however, are of little use, in the thinking department!

Alec.
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Oh Alec Swan, you really have upset my other half with your last statement!! We currently have four pure Salukis amongst out pack and I can promise you they have an awful lot of brain power both in the hunting field and the home :) :)
 
Irishdan said:
Oh Alec Swan, you really have upset my other half with your last statement!! We currently have four pure Salukis amongst out pack and I can promise you they have an awful lot of brain power both in the hunting field and the home :) :)
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Well the answer to that's simple, don't show the post to him/her. :eek:
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Please! :D

I generally say, when I make apparently sweeping statements, that "These are only my opinions"!!

Alec.
 
Irishdan said:
Oh Alec Swan, you really have upset my other half with your last statement!! We currently have four pure Salukis amongst out pack and I can promise you they have an awful lot of brain power both in the hunting field and the home :) :)
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I can vouch for that as I know Irishdan's dogs.

I have had lots of lurchers over the years, but the two I remember as being the best hare dogs were out of a three quarter grew/collie to a saluki dog. They were fast, would use their nose and hunt up by day but not on the lamp, and were about 26 ins. They read hares very well and had terrific stamina. On a calm night they would just lie about the house, but if the wind got up they would pace and whine.
 
I have a saluki x whippet x maybe a smidge of something else bitch. She is 23" (Ideal height IMO) and an absolute killing machine. In the days when hunting was legal she could kill anything from a rat to a muntjak. She tried with a fallow buck but did lose and was never game enough to fox, she would bowl them but then leap away when they went for her.
She will retrieve to hand, hunts up with her nose and will run all day but she is a dit dim and hopeless to rabbits.
She is old now and the chassis has done too many miles, anything bar a mixy rabbit is pretty safe now!
A friend has a deerhound x whippet and it thinks the hunt out, it will stalk to between the squirrel and the tree, now that is clever and Tash has never mnaged anything like that.
 
ribbons said:
I have to agree with Alec on the saluki subject. I had one years ago. Beautiful dog, but as thick as a brick.
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Was it really?? They certainly dont have the trainability factor compared to a lot of breeds. Fiercely independant but you need to be able to tap into their mindset. All of ours are as sharp as tacks. My Beardie lurcher on the other hand........:/
 
Irishdan,

I spent some time in Iraq, and it was there that they had Salukis. Strange dogs they were, too. Though I was accustomed to difficult dogs at the time, it took me some while to get around even the more bid-able, and the more haughty and aloof males, never would have anything to do with me. The Arab man explained that I didn't smell as he did, and in that was the resistance. He may have been right.

The desert dogs didn't seem to resemble ours, and they seemed to have more heart. When they said NO, they meant it!

I once had a half bred bitch here in the UK, and on windy days, with the house windows open, she'd loop her foot over her ears. In the desert I saw desert dogs doing the same thing, and the Arab said that it was to keep the blowing sand out of their ears. I'd be interested, do any of yours display this strange and presumably inherited behaviour?

Alec.
 
Thats interesting what you say about the ears, all my Dobes would flick their eyes over prior to going into hunting mode, if Im quick I could/can premept that and put them on the lead. I suspected they picked something up on the wind.
 
Im not an expert (I guess you dont have to be, we are talking x breed here), owned enough/own enough (as pets) and do have my thoughts on what a lurcher is, and some of the crosses that are made up and classed as lurchers for the experiment of it boils my urine in some cases to be honest, just an excuse to breed mutts and claim they where " unique" and will make fantastic lurchers/working dogs:rolleyes: I guess and make £80 a pup and have them turn into a useless monstrocity in most cases. (although) go on to make good pets once rehomed from the rescue they land in and free ads paper.

I would class and have always been led to believe a lurcher is a sight hound x working breed (although) that obs quite a selection, i only really class bedlingtons or collie types crossed with sight hounds as true lurchers. A sight hound x sighthound is just that. I never call my whippet x grey a lurcher, but I do call our shaggy deerhound/collie x greyhound/bedlington boy as a lurcher.
I dont actually like the crossing of bull breeds (sure it makes a good killing machine) with stamina and less likely to suffer injury or break but I still dont like to see them classed as lurchers, esp not a 1st cross where it is very evident what they are.
I have a bully x greyhound and she is just a x breed really, built like a machine, has "kill" on the brain and is indestructible. She was a discarded dog like alot of bully crosses breed (as lurchers)
No doubt you have dogs that are for long/short bursts of speed that needed the extra bulk added in to prevent constant breakage and rippage:D so we bred sterdy dogs in and crate stamina and lessen the likely hood of injury (I can understand all that) but with some its just taken to far imo.

OH gives me alot of "useless info" the kind I reply "oh, i will sleep better tonight knowing that":p:D. He likes to read and learn all the time (unlike me) lol, and he told me this (obs he read it).
He has worked his lurcher for about 25 years so obs has his own ideals of lurchers and has taught me alot about them (in working terms), hsi friends would experiment buying varied crosses but he would never touch certain breeds and had his ideals, I just like them as pets:p Anyways he gave me this info below when I often wondered how the word came about.......:D
Lurcher= Many meanings of the word 'lurcher' have been suggested: From the Romany words for "lur" meaning thief and "cur" meaning a mixed dog breed. So its a thiefs X breed, and this is because back in those days poor men could not hunt with a deerhound (the wealthy mans dog) so they simply crossed them and created a lurcher so they could hunt (sounds simple enough):D

He also says a lurcher (is something that brings you a meal home every day):D
 
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Pippi,JRT X Whippet is deadly,fast,committed and deaf to all entreaties,when on a chase.On the other hand her friend Shirley Bassette,is much slower,steadier[nose to ground],total lack of recall.Pippi put up a hare the other day and was off,followed by her pal,I had to go on the quad bike to retrieve them,I must say they were both very glad of a ride home.
 
I love sighthounds and longdogs and lurchers I dont understand why anyone would cross a whippet or greyhound with a bull terrier. though.
 
This is fascinating.

I'm now the proud owner of a 4 month old whippet/lab cross. He was a Christmas present from OH !

We met both his parents - the dad - whippet/greyhound and the mum - lab cross - if she was lab/greyhound would she be a lurcher ? The details we had about him in advance said there was lurcher in his background but his dad was definitely whippety/greyhoundy type and his mum was mostly lab. They were both rescue dogs so not all their background is known.
 
zandp said:
This is fascinating.

I'm now the proud owner of a 4 month old whippet/lab cross. He was a Christmas present from OH !

We met both his parents - the dad - whippet/greyhound and the mum - lab cross - if she was lab/greyhound would she be a lurcher ? The details we had about him in advance said there was lurcher in his background but his dad was definitely whippety/greyhoundy type and his mum was mostly lab. They were both rescue dogs so not all their background is known.
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Shouldn't this be cross referenced with the neutering thread?
 
For all we know, the mum and dad were rescued along with their unborn puppies...but yeah, let's judge.

Anyway, zandp asked if the mum counted as a lurcher - not the pup. Why jump on them and get offensive?
 
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