What is it about border collies?

Alec Swan said:
Those who use them for their intended purpose, and I'm one of them, will tell you that the trick is to recognise the direction in which the dog is trying to travel.

First there is a need to understand the dog, and then actually recognise what he's trying to achieve. It isn't easy, and I sometimes get it wrong, but a natural instinct needs steering, rather than being disciplined.

Alec.
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This really struck a chord with me . . . it chimes with something I read on horsemanship (I think it was Mark Rashid) about "rewarding the try" . . . it's the same sort of idea . . . and if I analyze what I do with Fred it's exactly this. I'm always after my OH to reward the "try" (particularly with Daisy who isn't quite as "sharp" as Fred) much more quickly and then channel it.

Thanks for this Alec.

P
 
blackcob said:
if asked to go to their bed they'd lie there quivering, waiting for the next command. It would drive me bonkers. :o

I prefer my dogs pointy eared, pointy snouted and a bit fick. :p
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Oh that would drive me bonkers too . . . but having read it I realize that Fred generally has one eye on me all the time - waiting to see what I will do next (so that he can follow me or obey the next command - poor boy). He is lying on the sofa watching me now - something he does alot.

And, I like your description of dogs you prefer . . . I wouldn't say I prefer dogs like that to the two I've got, but they do sound appealing :).

P
 
I have always had gsds, but accidentally acquired a year old rescue bc x gsd who was being PTs at work.

He is my first collie and I have found him incredibly difficult to deal with compared to my shepherds although I don't know if it's his past or genetic!
A few traits he has include being obsessive about things such as light and balls to the point of fixation, being quite protective and being wary of strangers. He is also quite skittish and will jump at things my shepherd wouldn't look twice at.
On the other hand he is fab with children and other dogs and is so so affectionate and obedient so hopefully we can work through the bad bits!!
Oh, and he eats everything.including poo!!
 
littlen - it's hard to say for sure, but I'd say alot of what you're seeing in your bc/gsd rescue is "collie-ness" . . . they are very sensitive souls, particularly to rapid movement (which makes sense considering they're bred to have lightning quick reflexes and be extremely sensitive to movement). Alot of collies are skittish - I do wonder if that's just a manifestation of their naturally quick reflexes - not unlike a sharp TB!

I have heard it said that collies are generally "one owner" dogs - they will get along well with everyone in the household but have one, definitely preferred person as "theirs." This is certainly true of both of ours . . . they definitely take their cue from me and prefer to be with me if given a choice. Fred, in particular, looks to me for reassurance when he's worried and almost asks me to "control" him when he's got that urge to bark at the neighbours or patrol the fence line.

P
 
Great dogs,used to breed agility/obedience ones in various colours but not black and white.My first one was a good worker,obsessive actually. One night a portion of a white flock of ladies got in with our blacks and LLewellyn the Welsh Black ram,he was delighted and quite a lot had black lambs months later! Whilst they were mixed in with my lot Mirk spent her time splitting white from black ,and then rejoining them again.My red male,also a worker,was adept at getting the horse in,he would outrun,circle until the horse got annoyed and then light out for home with horse in pursuit. Another one Moss ,was a great guard,and one of her chosen possessions was the mare and foal,she would lie by the fieldgate watching and woe betide anyone but me who went near them!
 
Would have one but only as a working dog. I like them but they are obbsessive whereas my pet spaniel is crazy and energetic but not so obbsessed. I only really have dealt with working bred and working ones though. I like the fact that when i walk spaniel he keeps himself busy whereas when I take spaniel and collie out collie wants to be doing sopmething. If I try and take my OH's collie out for a run he sees that there is no sheep and turn round! They also seem one people dogs which is important when working.
 
I am a virgin border collie owner! :o Rosie is 18 months now but I have to say she is an absolute star :) Her training has been gundog training ;) ie she is whistle trained for recall and stop, she is definitely a one person dog and stays by my side at all times. She is working bred and I have only used her twice on sheep so far but she certainly proved her worth and I am looking forward to using her more regularly.

Bizarrely though she shows no interest whatsoever in playing with a ball! I have tried numerous times, on her own and with the others, rolling or throwing a ball for her - she runs after it full pelt, looks at it when its landed, looks at me to say "there it is" and runs off to find something else interesting! LOL!

She has fitted right in with this family although is top dog the only problem I have is that she is very aggressive with other dogs :( If we are out walking and I see a dog in the distance, I have to call her back and put her on the lead otherwise she is out to kill them :( If she sees another dog before I do, then she stops stock still and looks back at me ;) However we are very lucky that this is a very rare occurrence :)

After judging the dog show last week I have been given the number of the local sheep dog trials club who are desperately looking for new members (apparently) so I am going to give them a ring - working is definitely going to be her forte :D
 
cyberhorse said:
if you treat them like a 3-4 yr old child and set a high standard and give them "jobs" they respond fantastically
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cyberhorse, can you suggest some of the kind of jobs or tasks that you mention that i could perhaps try with my own collie?
she's uber smart and im trying to think of things for her to do to keep her mentally stimulated!
 
NeverSayNever said:
ooh see i like 'sharp' but to me it doesnt mean they cant take a telling, mine darn well do as they are told, there isnt anything I cant do with them. To me it means reacting a lightening speed, being highly driven and not too soft - quite a hard dog, Im still the boss though:cool: Although I can imagine my older bitch in certain types of homes would never have been groomed or had her nails cut in her life, lol, she puts up and shuts up with me around though:p
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Again, this sort of goes along with the theory that they're one-person dogs. Put a stranger in to the mix (ie vet/groomer) and you might have trouble. The ones that are not so suspicious are lovely.

I once met a pair of collie x poodles - what a nightmare they were! One tried to bite me as it came in to my shop! It was fine once the owner left (more or less) but it was far too many brain cells fizzing. I made sure I had the owner's mobile number programmed in to speed dial as she left in case I had to call her back to collect the dog un-started. I did manage to groom it, but it wasn't sure about it.... I like a clever dog - which is why I have a poodle! :) But I'm not sure I like grooming strange collies.

A very good friend had rehomed a border years ago. She was obsessive compulsive to the point that she could have just come in from a couple hours of walking and chasing a ball and then you come back home, sit down and fix a cuppa and all she'd do for hours during a visit is constantly insist that it was still play time and bring you a ball. The dog had been previously kept in a small garden owned by a family with two small children and they didn't really cope well together, understandably. My friend on the other hand, despite living in a flat, had this dog out for hours daily. She could never really satisfy the dog's need for constant stimulation. I used to see zillions of BCs living in flats in Edinburgh...I just don't understand it.

And yet I love seeing them work or doing agility or whatever. I just am too lazy to own one!
 
katielou said:
I should think its a good thing the breed are not well liked.
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Well that's the thing - they do tend to be well liked by too many of the wrong sort of potential owner!

I agree with all the posters above me who've said that to see one working and doing is a thing of beauty. But lots of people get them cos they're easy on the eye never realising that it can be hard work to keep them happy/sane in modern urban/suburban family life. THOSE tend to be the one's that I see in my salon, sadly.
 
i like border collies...: in a field/up the hill with a shepherd, doing what it was designed to do- herd sheep and help man do his job.

i would never have one as a pet. i think they are best suited to working homes. i find then neurotic and hard-wired to the moon!!

yes they are loyal- but ive found it to be to a point where it is detremental to their wellbeing!

beautiful dogs, superbly bred to function as a herder.... in my oppinion not pets.

they are WAY too intense for my liking. i dont like being stared at and herded! (neither does Betty... she HATES collies with a passion for this reason!)
 
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I don't have a Border Collie, I have a Welsh Sheepdog. They have a different way of working to the BC's, and, due to the terrain they work over and the distances they cover, have a LOT more energy!

These Welsh dogs work in a totally different way to the Border - their tails up, ears down - and have none of their inhibiting characteristics. They are free agents by comparison, with no eye - in fact, they are referred to as 'loose-eyed' dogs. One thing I like about them is that when you have got sheep into the yards, they go about their own business, whereas the Border Collie will be eyeing the sheep under a gate or through a fence, unable to switch off because of their overpowering natural instincts.

When the Welsh dogs are under pressure to move their sheep, they bark, and are at their happiest when they are working large flocks of sheep. They have a tremendous amount of energy, and work well in hot weather. Many Borders, especially if they have a thick coat, do not stick heat too well.
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Taken from the Welsh Sheepdog Society website.

My boy is relatively quiet in the house, although does get a bit wound up with the noises of the chickens under the 'house' (I live in a static caravan/mobile home) as we had a rat problem when I first moved in. He will stand for hours where he thinks they are (almost like a 'point') unless I call him away.
Outside he is great with other people, dogs, chickens, geese, etc and will not chase. The only thing he will chase is cats but that is because there aren't any round here for me to de-sensitise him to. He will not stop for hours, if I am up the yard all day he will run round like a nutter all day! I did run him at agility for a year but it unfortunately just blew his brains and I had to pull him out, although I am still allowed to run him over the kit when the club are not there as they are based at the farm where I live.
I would definitely have another as he is a joy to be around, besides after having him a BC may be slightly easier!!
 
broke_but_happy said:
I don't have a Border Collie, I have a Welsh Sheepdog. They have a different way of working to the BC's, and, due to the terrain they work over and the distances they cover, have a LOT more energy!

Taken from the Welsh Sheepdog Society website.

My boy is relatively quiet in the house, although does get a bit wound up with the noises of the chickens under the 'house' (I live in a static caravan/mobile home) as we had a rat problem when I first moved in. He will stand for hours where he thinks they are (almost like a 'point') unless I call him away.
Outside he is great with other people, dogs, chickens, geese, etc and will not chase. The only thing he will chase is cats but that is because there aren't any round here for me to de-sensitise him to. He will not stop for hours, if I am up the yard all day he will run round like a nutter all day! I did run him at agility for a year but it unfortunately just blew his brains and I had to pull him out, although I am still allowed to run him over the kit when the club are not there as they are based at the farm where I live.
I would definitely have another as he is a joy to be around, besides after having him a BC may be slightly easier!!
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Interesting about the Welsh Sheep dogs - I've never heard of them before. And the part I find interesting is that on the society's web page, they state that the numbers are in decline, and yet the society's stance is that they should only go in to working homes:

"Their will to work is in-bred and they need an active life-style. The Society wishes to restrict the sale of registered puppies to working stock farms only."

How would they restrict such sales? I wonder if society members also adhere to this?

Sorry, gone off topic a bit....
 
I love collies! And i plan on getting my own hopefully end of this year or next year. But, im always wary of the collies we get in at work (kennels) as one collie has bitten my leg and 'herds' me round the kennel, another collie was aggressive and unpredictable-one minute he loves cuddles and fuss, the next minute he will go for you. And a collie cross went for me numerous times, actually bit me on one occassion and wouldnt let me out of the kennel unless someone was outside to distract him. I never went near that dog again.

Other than that, every other collie ive met has been lovely and i adore them :D
 
Have not read all the threads on this but I will say that when I was younger I always wanted a border collie, I thought they were fantastic dogs, so intelligent and energetic. However, i have changed my opinion. I still think they're great dogs when with the right owner BUT the dogs i trust the least are border collies and the only dogs I have ever been bitten/threatened to be bitten by have been border collies.

I appreciate they can be very one man dogs etc but i think they can be a little deceiving with the whole submissive, wagging look and then the lunge/bite! I don't 100% trust them as can find them hard to read sometimes.
 
I like them but I'd never EVER have one because I couldn't given them the mental and physical stimulation they need and deserve. It would not be fair on the dog at all and I'd never put an animal through that.
 
We have a working collie on the farm, she is a lovely dog. She is so affectionate and adores the kids. Although never put to the test, I think she would protect her own. She watches the kids all the time, and almost seems to come and 'tell' me if she thinks they are doing something which is dangerous! She is wary of other dogs coming onto the farm, although doesn't just rush straight in for a fight. We got a kitten at Christmas, OH said it wouldn't last 5 mins with the dogs, especially the collie.... the cat is boss and plays about bopping the dogs on the nose, its like they all know she is 'family'. Both our bitches parents were quite aggressive and known to bite, but I do believe it how you'bring them up'. Flo is shut up at night, but all day can run around as she pleases, and can often be found fast asleep on the leather chair in the kitchen:rolleyes: Being on the farm, we always have had a collie, but never had a 'bad' one. I think lots of breeds get a bad name when the problem is really the owners and the dogs not being kept in the proper environment for the breed and meeting their needs. We've also always had Spaniels, never had a loopy one yet (daft, yes...;) ), as again they get to run loose all day, and never shut up to pent up their energy, we always have them as house dogs, they like to be near their people.:D

I love collies, truly a loyal breed:)
 
This thread has made for an interesting read as me and my boyfriend were considering getting a border collie.

We really would love a high-energy dog as our current rescue, a cavvie, likes nothing better than lying in bed but me and my boyfriend are quite active people, so really our lifestyle doesn't suit him (don't get me wrong, I wouldn't change him for the world) so we were thinking of getting a BC.

How much mental/physical stimulation do they need?

My Cavvie goes on a walk in the morning, then to my parents house during the day (they play with him in the garden etc) and then another walk at night, whereas we'd love a dog who could spend hours on end outdoors and enjoy it. Boyfriend is into hiking too so more excercise :p

I would love a collie but its not something I'd go into lightly :p

Personally I think like all dogs if they are well socialised then they are lovely dogs, but sometimes due to their boisterous nature they're not socialised which enhances the problem

I'm probably talking nonsense :p any advice appreciated :p :D
 
PucciNPony - Honestly I can see why! The first year I had him I was tearing my hair out and seriously considered putting him in a rescue. It took a LOT of hard work, tears, headaches etc before I got him into some sort of routine. It doesn't help that my vet thinks he has ADHD as he has the concentration span of a gnat! He turned 4 this year and now I wouldn't be without him but he is still a lot of work, the only dog that has come close to him is my friends Malinois.
 
my bc is retrieval obessed compleltely. she has to have something in her mouth on walks. a tennis balls is her favorite thing in the world (and i swear she can smell balls, she'll find one with her nose buried in a hedge 100 yrds away) but if not a stick will do or a twig or in desperate cirmstances a blade of grass as long as its SOMETHING.

our walks go like this,

enters bridleway, darcy rushes off to find stick/twig or similar if we havent brought ball with us. proudly drops it at my feet and looks at me expectantly as we proceed to walk down track, i bend and throw it, she brings it back drops it, i kick it a few feet, she pounces on it with gusto and trots off down the track. 50 feet in front of me she'll suddenly stop, turn and trot back drop it at my feet again. i kick it, she pounces, trots off for another 50 feet , stops, turns round and brings it back, drops it at my feet..picks it up..bounces off for 50ft..stops....turns round..brings it back...drops it..pounces...yadda

our daily walks of miles will proceed in exactly this way every single time.
she'll mug complete strangers on park benches to throw her ball for her. i sometimes think her body would have to die of exhaustion before she didnt want to bring that ball back anymore.

Ive been told this obsessiveness is a collie trait. i do love her to death tho sometimes i wish she wasnt so permanently 'switched on' behind in the eyes!
 
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lula said:
my bc is retrieval obessed compleltely. she has to have something in her mouth on walks. a tennis balls is her favorite thing in the world (and i swear she can smell balls, she'll find one with her nose buried in a hedge 100 yrds away) but if not a stick will do or a twig or in desperate cirmstances a blade of grass as long as its SOMETHING.

our walks go like this,

she'll mug complete strangers on park benches to throw her ball for her. i sometimes think her body would have to die of exhaustion before she didnt want to bring that ball back anymore.
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This ^^^ is my collie bitch. We have made a game to keep her mentally occupied, I tell her to 'find' a stick that i have thrown in undergrowth , in fact if another dog loses their ball, we send mine to find it. We now play it at home with items hidden about the house. Mine works and walks for hours a day, I have even taken her mountain walking and she arrived at the bottom as fresh as when she started.

She is turning into a great flyball dog, I was at the British Champs this weekend and the speed and grace of the dogs in the highest divisions (all collies) is amazing.

It is very true about the loyalty, even though my bitch is sociable with people, and with most dogs (apart from youngsters who jump about as they soon get told off) she is definitely my dog and follows me everywhere. We have found that if I am at home and someone approaches the house she will bark, if I am out but John is in she wont.

It is interesting what people have said about them being house pets - around here we say that about labs. Without exception all the collies I know work in some capacity, or due to the amount of exercise have made their owners far more active (or been bought for that purpose).
 
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Renvers said:
She is turning into a great flyball dog, I was at the British Champs this weekend and the speed and grace of the dogs in the highest divisions (all collies) is amazing.
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OMG, i didnt know what flyball was when i read your post and have just watched a video on you tube, i would LOVE to try that. Im going to have to look into classes in my area, looks like collie heaven!
 
lula said:
OMG, i didnt know what flyball was when i read your post and have just watched a video on you tube, i would LOVE to try that. Im going to have to look into classes in my area, looks like collie heaven!
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Do try it - it is great fun for you both. Have a look here for teams/classes near you http://www.flyball.org.uk/ In a way it does as Alec Swan suggested earlier in the thread, it plays to the breeds strengths so they pick it up really well.

The club I train with even has a session where puppies can come and just play fetch and retrieve (no jumps or boxes at a young age) which gets them out and focussed on a task.

Having said that we have Great Danes in one of our teams too - but took time and a lot of hard work to get to collie standard tho!
 
I am another one who would never have a collie:o I live on a farma dn the the old sheepdog lived in his kennel in the corner of my garden and was like my 3rd dog when the farmer/YO wasn't around. He was one of the most sociable collies I have met - useful when on a livery yard with up to 20 diffenrent dogs coming and going - and was my dogs best 'friend' :) When not worknig he would come on walks with us across the fields etc and was the best guard dog on the farm:) but he was a working dog:)

My friends collies are pets but both she and her OH walk them and take them running with them as well as doing agility and flyball with them - both are as chilled out as collies get but are always on 'alert' :) Her old collies used to come out on rides with us as well - he made it to 17:)

The collie that belongs to one of the liveries is a nightmare:o he constantly barks from the minute he is let out of the car until she puts him back in to go home (she appears to be oblivious) - particularly annoying at 6.30 in the morning:mad: - and he also constantly rounds up the horses:mad: luckikly he doesn't go into my horses field - yet:rolleyes: - as he will find half a tonne of WB on his head:o - she says he walks him but clearly not enough and she was talking about agility/flyball but the arrival of a new boyfriend has put a hold on all that so the rest of us have to put up with her barking neurotic pain in the ass collie:o Sadly the dog and owners like her give collies a bad name:(
 
slinkyunicorn said:
Sadly the dog and owners like her give collies a bad name:(
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actually id say the dog and owner like her give dogs a bad name. Ive seen lots of dogs that behave exactly like that whatever their breed.

you cant blame the fact this dog barks a lot on it being a collie.
 
I think its not so much the breed doing itself a disservice, but people buying them who don't understand the first bit about the dog they have.

I think it takes a special type of owner to own a collie well - and sadly those good owners are too few and far between. Thus making people wary of the dog - when really all we need to be wary of are stupid owners, who could make a hash out of a bloody labrador if they wanted :)
 
CC - thanks for the link, I'll have a proper read tomorrow.
Slightly off topic (well very off topic :p ) but are GSD's active dogs?
 
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