What is with people.....

skewbald.. can I have a white hat too ?
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I'm totally with Skewbald on this one too, I freelanced very successfully until 4 years ago, I charged £8 per hour then, so would easily be at least £10 by now. Why would I want to run my car, buy all my own clothing (wet weather gear etc), pay tax & NI & someone to do my tax return, my phone bill as well as normal stuff like FOOD & a MORTGAGE etc etc for peanuts, as well as being in a postion of trust. People drove me mad, thats why I stopped, either expecting me to do 1 1/2 hours work in 1 hour, or if I did 1 1/2 hours then only wanted to pay 1 hour. My minimum call was 1 hour, 1 client constantly griped that it didn't take an hour to put her horses to bed, I politely pointed out that for £4 before tax, why on earth would I want to turn out in foul weather, & spend petrol money driving to her, I would rather be at home watching Neighbours, she just didn't get it. Sorry but if the job was as great as you say & the pay was acceptable, as in worth turning up for, you'd have plenty of takers.
 
I have to agree with Skewbald here. £10 per hour was the going rate when I had grooms, and that was 5 years ago
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. I actually can't believe that anyone would work with horses for less??

I have to say, when I worked with horses over 20 years ago before I had my own yards, my salary worked out at over £5 per hour even back then (albeit I wasn't a groom, but even so) ... and I had a cottage and 4WD included in my benefits package.

Nat; I think what you are missing here is that you may be able to get someone to work full time for a lower wage, however you are looking for someone part time and as has been pointed out, if you want someone for just a few hours here and there, then you really want to offer a higher wage to attract more experienced people. I'm not sure exactly what you really are looking for though? A groom or a manual worker? I think you need to figure that out before you do anything else.
 
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First point - YO wants, he is the one thats paying, not me. I just happen to agree with him.
<font color="blue">Unfortunately the grooms seem to disagree with both of you
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The unskilled girl - no I didnt like her handling my horse, there were other reasons behind it. Her having no common sense is one of them and I will not go into the other on here.
<font color="blue"> As a few people have said, pay peanuts, get monkeys
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I have been a groom and worked bloody hard, got paid peanuts and loved it.
I then went to work at asda, got paid more and also worked bloody hard.
<font color="blue"> So you couldn't afford to make a living as a ful ltime groom, preferring to work in Asda, yet you are surprised when you can't get someone else?</font>
Now I get paid twice as much doing a job that I love so that I can have two horses on full livery which I would not be able to do if I was still a groom. Yes it is more than the grooms job but for what I do I would expect it to be.
<font color="blue">Perhaps the problem, then, is that would-be grooms also are working for twice as much doing something else too? Or do they have different needs from you? Perhaps they don't need to pay for mortgages, buy cars, have pensions, don't want their own horses, like you do? </font>

OK I will admit that groom probably isnt the right word

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<font color="blue">Lol. May I suggest 'slave', 'prole', or '[****]-shovelling underclasser'?
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Now I get paid twice as much doing a job that I love so that I can have two horses on full livery which I would not be able to do if I was still a groom. Yes it is more than the grooms job but for what I do I would expect it to be.


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So what do you do?
 
QR: How long do I spend on a stable? However long it takes, the job needs to be done correctly. P is in a barn and I can have her mucked out in 5 mins tops (droppings only, I take the wet out weekly - and no, the YM wouldn't do that for me for £5, prob at least £10 to take wet out too as it isn't done daily). H is in a half barn and I HAVE to muck out completely, bed up, daily. I would say 15mins but could stretch that to 30mins depending how gross she has been and if my hands are frozen solid
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I usually go on 3 normal stables per hour BTW, that is bucket scrub, bedding laid, swept outside and hayed.
 
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I would love to work with horses but I have yet to find an employer that pays enough for me to live like I do now

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Exactly. Just how all the other exgrooms felt...And the industry wonders why they cant get good grooms...
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Whats a 'prole', &amp; more importantly where can I get one??!!
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It is short for proletariat and the dictionary meaning is given as .......

the class of people who do unskilled jobs in industry and own little or no property

I love that word
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Sorry, just going to add my 2p here (no jokes about hourly wages for grooms please...)
I keep my horse on DIY but can honestly say that the YM and grooms that we have are a godsend. I know what these girls get paid for what they do, and I think it is criminal. Just the other day, YM put her life in danger un-casting a big and panicky horse and brushed it off as 'all in a day's work'. Without them, I would have been in serious trouble a couple of weeks ago when I was seriously unwell and called them to beg for help with my lad. They gave him such a nice day, turned him out, groomed him, made a fuss of him and I got to the yard when I was better to find him in a gorgeous bed, looking clean, relaxed and happy - what a relief!!
Our yard is trying to recruit another groom or two and having no luck. Why? Because they are offering crap money, long hours and no perks.
I think the days are over when people can afford to work for peanuts anymore.
Maybe it is time grooms joined a union or something and set a charter of groom duties and what they are worth? Then at least everyone would be singing off the same hymn sheet. Just an idea...
 
Can I ask how much livery you pay?

This is all relevant to how much your "groom" should be paid.

If you were local to me it would suit me just fine, but I would be looking for at least £8 per hour.

Not everyone wants or needs to work full time.
 
Cracklinrosie, if your post was in reply to mine, we pay £45 / week DIY, up to £110 for Full. Unfortunately not based anywhere near where you are, and I know for a fact that the job is nowhere near £8 / hour
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What do people classify as 'experienced' with horses? :-) Just wondering really!

I'd be happy to work for peanuts for a gap year if it was fun and I got lessons on a more working student package!
 
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I can understand why Skewbald was irritated by the comment about "it's working with horses...get real" Why should working with horses command a lesser salary than working in Tescos?


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Only read to here so far, but personally I think 5 or 6 quid an hour is a perfectly acceptable rate for mucking out stables - they're not looking for a professional groom or skilled worker.

I'm a uni student, so since I was 15 I've been working in low end jobs to earn money. I've worked part time as a waitress and in Tk Maxx, and as a full time temporary worker in a call centre and a temporary receptionist/clerical assistant at Oxford uni. All of those jobs have required at least as much skill and responsibility as mucking out boxes and all of those jobs have paid between £3.85 and £6.70 per hour.

So honestly, I would love to know where I can find a job like that which pays £10 an hour! As far as I know, around 5/6 quid an hour is a pretty normal wage for that type of work.

As a disclaimer, I'm not saying that professional grooms should be paid a pittance or that all horsey jobs should be badly paid, but in this case, they are just looking for someone to muck out for a couple of hours a day - a job for a student type I'd have thought, not a career.
 
VictoriaEDT -- I hear you!

I have been a groom, worked for peanuts but loved my job!

I think sometimes people can be abit quick to judge.
 
I do think your post sounds rather derogatory to be honest. I am an HR Manager and wondered if in addition to your "above NMW" you pay for sick pay, national Insurance Contributions, maternity pay and such like? - i also presume this person needs to take holiday, is that also paid? and how many days do they get each year?
 
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but in this case, they are just looking for someone to muck out for a couple of hours a day - a job for a student type I'd have thought, not a career.

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Often is not just mucking out though is it? I couldn't possibly muck out without sweeping up the yard, forking up the muck heap (sometimes the muck heap is miles from the yard across a muddy track with a wheelbarrow guaranteed to have a flat tyre!), if all the nets have to be done there will be bales to lug around and the bedding of course etc etc. Its not a very appealing job especially considering it rains everyday of the year now!
 
When I was working freelance until a couple of years ago, my prices reflected the work I was doing. I wouldn't expect to be paid £20.00 an hour to muck out, just as I wouldn't expect to teach or school someone's horse for £6 an hour.

My horse/s were on a DIY livery yard and I did some work for various owners up there, turn out some mornings, bring in some evenings, muck out, cover people's holidays, teaching a couple of people in evenings, backing &amp; bringing on a couple of youngsters etc.

I generally used to work 3/4 hours in the mornings, 5/6 days a week at one yard (spent 18 months on show pony yard, mucking out 15 boxes, lunging, grooming/bathing etc, followed by 18 months on a P2P yard, mucking out, riding out, grooming) this was my "bread and butter" so I knew that even if other work was slow I'd still be earning something.
For 3-5 hours work on those I'd charge £6 an hour.

I then had another place with two horses that I'd muck out &amp; exercise the eventer that I could do any time in the day as long as stables were done for owner to bring in. I'd generally spend 2-2.5 hours there (mon-fri) and was paid £15 a day.

Around those two main jobs, I then had work at my livery yard to do (charged £5 per stable to muck out, couple of quid to turn out/bring in, £15-20 an hour teaching/backing/schooling etc etc). As well as going out &amp; about for teaching, riding, clipping, around the local area, usually £15-£25 an hour, depending on what I was doing. And then my own horses on top
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I would generally leave the house at 6am and get home around 8/9pm, after having got mine done, shower and go out
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Weekends were spent teaching or competing, either mine or for a client.

For your job, I'd be looking at £6 an hour but I'd need to do prob 3 hours a day to make it worth going, and it would depend on the distance. Mucking out a few stables is never going to get a freelance groom rich, but I always had my regular mucking out jobs that were there whatever the season.

But then maybe that's where I was going wrong (not that anything was going wrong - I'd still be doing it all now had my circumstances not changed)...... I'm not surprised I never got rich, not charging £10 an hour for mucking out!!!
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OFGS the poor poster only asked why the YO couldn't seem to find a part-time worker to do the stables.
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Why is everyone getting on to her.
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Nat I'd agree with you that above minimum rate would be an agreeable rate for this job.
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Maybe it's the area you live in and no-one wants just a couple of hours work. Especially when they can get more on the dole sitting on their bums and gaining no experience except how to operate the latest TV they've just managed to afford from taxpayers funds.
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Maybe as some 'grooms' have taken the hump as this job would probably be best advertised as general yard hand.
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Good luck
 
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but in this case, they are just looking for someone to muck out for a couple of hours a day - a job for a student type I'd have thought, not a career.

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or a non-working mum who just wants a few extra quid in between school runs?
 
Personally, I think that £6/hour for mucking out is perfectly acceptable. It is an unskilled job, quite unlike being a 'groom' (so perhaps the wrong choice of word for the OP?).

Having said that, I would consider being a groom is a 'vocation' rather than a highly paid career. Everyone *knows* you arent going to get rich working around horses....people do it because they love it. It is like childcare.....people look after children for £3 odd an hour.......it is not always about the money!!

When my youngest daughter goes to school I would love to find a part time job with horses like the one in the OP. I would far rather be outside than on a till in Tesco (which I have done too).
 
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but in this case, they are just looking for someone to muck out for a couple of hours a day - a job for a student type I'd have thought, not a career.

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or a non-working mum who just wants a few extra quid in between school runs?

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Too right. Women who have children kiss their chances of a decent wage goodbye when they have their first.
They should be supported by a well paid man, anyhow.
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