What is wrong with giving a healthy horse away?

pookie said:
Oh, I see. "Knowing something is wrong" is very different to knowing they're being euthanised. You're crediting horses with more sentience than even a human has.

I find that highly irresponsible on a forum read by children.
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I apologize I should have been more specific
 
Am I the only person who thinks the OP is somewhat troll-like? :rolleyes:

The OP starts by posting a provocative title and getting the subject going. Then contradicts him/herself, makes nonsensical points and keeps coming back in seemingly to just stir things up.

The "story" of the horse which sensed its demise because it was being taken to a quiet location :rolleyes: is a particular low point.

A bit of attention-seeking around an emotive subject, IMO.
 
You all have very valid points and I do understand abit more now the reasons why most people will not give their horse away.

For those of you who tell me to go to a low end auction, I have been to Melton mowbery sales before (to get a horse destined for the meat man) but the horse market was not to bad back then. (thank god or I would have been coming home with the lot!)

I apologize if anything I have said has offended anyone and I certainly don't intend to tell anyone what to do with their horse.
 
FionaM12 said:
Am I the only person who thinks the OP is somewhat troll-like? :rolleyes:

The OP starts by posting a provocative title and getting the subject going. Then contradicts him/herself, makes nonsensical points and keeps coming back in seemingly to just stir things up.

The "story" of the horse which sensed its demise because it was being taken to a quiet location :rolleyes: is a particular low point.

A bit of attention-seeking around an emotive subject, IMO.
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I started this subject to hear other peoples opinions and put across my point of view... what is wrong with that?? It is a discussion board after all.
I have in no way contradicted myself maybe I am just not explaining myself very well.

That was no story and I made the point to show I had been in the situation of having to have a horse PTS... you do not know as you where not there so can not possibly tell me how my horse was (who I had for a long time so knew pretty well) feeling at that moment in time.
Yes I do feel extremely guilty about it still as I was the one who gave him the dodgy wormer that triggered the organ failure.
 
all about Romeo said:
They are not stupid, they can sense when something is not right, the fact that I took them to a quiet location where the body could be easily picked up rang alarm bells to them, I wont go into to much detail but when it come to the point where they were lying down and my gelding fought it they knew and it was heart braking... not something I will ever do with a healthy horse.
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If you break the horses routine, they might think something is 'up' but they wont know what and fighting the injection is something that can happen however well the event is planned ie its not necessarily linked at all.

Personally I would try to make things easy for the collection but not if it meant taking the horse out of their 'normal' places. Obviously somewhere they can remove the horse but not somewhere they wouldnt expect to go.

But neither am I a great fan of the injection method, unless the horse is headshy. Sometimes injectees go peacefully, but if they dont it is very distressing for them whereas shooting is potentially more distressing for the owner, but very miniimal for the horse.
For that reason my big chap will be injected (has ear plaques, so is very headshy) but my pony will be shot when their time comes.
 
Whilst I agree with the majority on this subject, not all horses given away end up in a bad home or sold on. My old lad Bob, given free to me as I advertised for a companion to my horse Murphy, stayed with me for ten very happy years. I didn't know the person who had him, and she didn't know me, but Bob was loved and cared for until the end of his life. In fact, I am breaking my heart at the moment as next week it will be a year since I lost him to colic, aged 29, and to be honest I still have not come to terms with it. However, I know you should be very careful in your actions when re-homing a horse in such circumstances, especially when you read of the horror stories nowadays. Bob was lucky, or rather I think I was, as he was so special. But a lot of thought and soul-searching must go into it. It has to be in the horses best interests, and not yours. And like people say there are a lot worse things for a horse than being PTS, though its so hard at the time, sometimes its for the best. Murphy will never be sold, or re-homed as he will stay with me for life, just like Bob. I made that promise to both of them, and I kept it for Bob, and I shall keep it for Murphy.
 
merrymeasure said:
Whilst I agree with the majority on this subject, not all horses given away end up in a bad home or sold on. My old lad Bob, given free to me as I advertised for a companion to my horse Murphy, stayed with me for ten very happy years. I didn't know the person who had him, and she didn't know me, but Bob was loved and cared for until the end of his life. In fact, I am breaking my heart at the moment as next week it will be a year since I lost him to colic, aged 29, and to be honest I still have not come to terms with it. However, I know you should be very careful in your actions when re-homing a horse in such circumstances, especially when you read of the horror stories nowadays. Bob was lucky, or rather I think I was, as he was so special. But a lot of thought and soul-searching must go into it. It has to be in the horses best interests, and not yours. And like people say there are a lot worse things for a horse than being PTS, though its so hard at the time, sometimes its for the best. Murphy will never be sold, or re-homed as he will stay with me for life, just like Bob. I made that promise to both of them, and I kept it for Bob, and I shall keep it for Murphy.
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Im sorry to hear about the loss of Bob and well done for making it possible for him to have those happy years with you.
 
all about Romeo said:
What is wrong with giving a healthy horse away?

If the horse is old and/or injured but still has a good quality of life what is wrong with rehoming it?

As long as the owner is honest about the horses history, carefully vets all potential homes, has a contract and checks on the horse regularly why must it be PTS?

What are your thoughts?
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A horse is for life (which is why I currently have a 32yo out in my herd) if someone no longer has the resources to look after an old or injured horse it is their responsibility to do the right thing by that horse, it is unfair to pass the horse on to an uncertain future and it is the brave and right thing to have an animal who has given you the best of themselves, the best and most pain free end at HOME.

There have been many cases of horses being put out on loan with injuries and the owner then loses touch with the loaner. Some of these horses have been sold on and are being ridden, some were actually sent to the slaughterhouse, there was a case with one owner, who, wanting to rescue from the country that cannot be named, put her two mares out on loan, the loanee promptly took them to the slaughterhouse for the meat money. The loanee had apparently done this with many many horses.

On another tack, the rescues are overflowing with abandoned horse, there is no room there. Genuine loaners are few and far between for this type of horse and there are far far worse fates than being PTS, if you are unaware of what these are, just visit a market to see, it may make you wake up and smell the coffee.
 
Amaranta said:
A horse is for life (which is why I currently have a 32yo out in my herd) if someone no longer has the resources to look after an old or injured horse it is their responsibility to do the right thing by that horse, it is unfair to pass the horse on to an uncertain future and it is the brave and right thing to have an animal who has given you the best of themselves, the best and most pain free end at HOME.

There have been many cases of horses being put out on loan with injuries and the owner then loses touch with the loaner. Some of these horses have been sold on and are being ridden, some were actually sent to the slaughterhouse, there was a case with one owner, who, wanting to rescue from the country that cannot be named, put her two mares out on loan, the loanee promptly took them to the slaughterhouse for the meat money. The loanee had apparently done this with many many horses.
Amaranta said:
Don`t get me wrong... I have every intention of keeping my boy until the end, but if something happens which means I can no longer care for him (including my death) I wouldn't want that to mean my boys life would have to end...

How can the loanee take the horses to the slaughter house with out passports?
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Sorry I have not read the whole thread
Passports are a joke:
There are false passports out there
There are passports being re-used because no one returns them to PIO when a horse dies
There are horses recorded dead on NED which are alive

The whole reason Missing Horses on Loan was set up was because of 2 horses (Gwen and Lady) sold on loan after being re-passported were put through Melton and went to abattoir.
Just too easy!
 
all about Romeo said:
Amaranta said:
A horse is for life (which is why I currently have a 32yo out in my herd) if someone no longer has the resources to look after an old or injured horse it is their responsibility to do the right thing by that horse, it is unfair to pass the horse on to an uncertain future and it is the brave and right thing to have an animal who has given you the best of themselves, the best and most pain free end at HOME.

There have been many cases of horses being put out on loan with injuries and the owner then loses touch with the loaner. Some of these horses have been sold on and are being ridden, some were actually sent to the slaughterhouse, there was a case with one owner, who, wanting to rescue from the country that cannot be named, put her two mares out on loan, the loanee promptly took them to the slaughterhouse for the meat money. The loanee had apparently done this with many many horses.
Amaranta said:
Don`t get me wrong... I have every intention of keeping my boy until the end, but if something happens which means I can no longer care for him (including my death) I wouldn't want that to mean my boys life would have to end...

How can the loanee take the horses to the slaughter house with out passports?
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So it would be better for him to be passed on to an uncertain future? Or would it just make you feel better?

Very easily, you have too much faith in passports, have you not been reading about the racehorses in Ireland???? Did you not realise that at most bin end markets you can get a passport written up? Besides, this happened before the passport regs came in.
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Cuffey said:
Sorry I have not read the whole thread
Passports are a joke:
There are false passports out there
There are passports being re-used because no one returns them to PIO when a horse dies
There are horses recorded dead on NED which are alive

The whole reason Missing Horses on Loan was set up was because of 2 horses (Gwen and Lady) sold on loan after being re-passported were put through Melton and went to abattoir.
Just too easy!
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Are passport really that easy to forge to another horse? or are the relevant authorities not doing enuff to ensure horses match their passports? perhaps microchipping and/ or freezmarking should become mandatory? would this help?
 
all about Romeo said:
Are passport really that easy to forge to another horse? or are the relevant authorities not doing enuff to ensure horses match their passports? perhaps microchipping and/ or freezmarking should become mandatory? would this help?
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Yes it is that easy, there is next to no policing, microchipping is mandatory but these do not seem to being checked, freezmarking is not feasable and imho would not be enough of a deterent, so now that you know this, do you still feel it is OK to pass on your old/injured horse? If you do then you are living in cloud cookoo land.
 
So it would be better for him to be passed on to an uncertain future? Or would it just make you feel better?

Very easily, you have too much faith in passports, have you not been reading about the racehorses in Ireland???? Did you not realise that at most bin end markets you can get a passport written up? Besides, this happened before the passport regs came in.[/QUOTE]

Yes I would feel better that my horse still had a chance of a good happy life... is that wrong?

I do have faith in passports as I have not come across an instance yet that would make me feel otherwise...

I have not heard anything about Ireland racehorses?.... No I didn't know you could get passports written up at auctions... I thought you had to have a certified vet issue a passport?....
 
all about Romeo said:
Are passport really that easy to forge to another horse? or are the relevant authorities not doing enuff to ensure horses match their passports? perhaps microchipping and/ or freezmarking should become mandatory? would this help?
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Well, Kali's passport isn't his . . . and he was imported to the UK from Poland on it and sold at least three times since then. Oh, and he's microchipped. So, yes, I would guess that it's relatively easy to get round the system.

P
 
But by giving away, you are admitting the horse is of no value :( and there's a greater likihood of someone taking him/her because he/she is free and making a fast buck, or not being able to afford to care for the horse.[/QUOTE]

That is not strictly true, a friend of mine had three very nice horses and told me that she wanted to rehome them as the children had lost interest. She had found a home for the two big horses but had a 14hh that had been backed but not done anything since. I spoke to another friend of mine who had always liked this pony as we rode passed it regurlarly and she agreed to have her as she is a very small adult. That was five years ago and the two big horses are still happy in their new home and the pony is now jumping and competing and giving her new owner a lot of fun. It can happen.
 
FionaM12 said:
Am I the only person who thinks the OP is somewhat troll-like? :rolleyes:

The OP starts by posting a provocative title and getting the subject going. Then contradicts him/herself, makes nonsensical points and keeps coming back in seemingly to just stir things up.

The "story" of the horse which sensed its demise because it was being taken to a quiet location :rolleyes: is a particular low point.

A bit of attention-seeking around an emotive subject, IMO.
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Yea i thought so last night but had nothing better to do so fed it for a while, then offered it free to a nice bridge:D
 
all about Romeo said:
So it would be better for him to be passed on to an uncertain future? Or would it just make you feel better?

Very easily, you have too much faith in passports, have you not been reading about the racehorses in Ireland???? Did you not realise that at most bin end markets you can get a passport written up? Besides, this happened before the passport regs came in.
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Yes I would feel better that my horse still had a chance of a good happy life... is that wrong?

In this day and age there are far too many horses passed on who do not go on to a good happy life - yes it is WRONG of you to pass the buck, no matter how you flower it up, that is essentially what you are doing.

I do have faith in passports as I have not come across an instance yet that would make me feel otherwise...

You are either very very naive or have little or no experience

I have not heard anything about Ireland racehorses?.... No I didn't know you could get passports written up at auctions... I thought you had to have a certified vet issue a passport?....[/QUOTE]

Again you are showing your naivety and lack of experience, there are some very nasty people out there who do not give a monkey's about your old unwanted horse, all they can see is a way to make money.

Personally, as I said in my previous post, to pass on an older/injured horse is unacceptable and is NOT the actions of someone who truly loves their horse, all it shows is that they do not have the horse's interests at heart, only their own feelings. Man up and take responsibiity for your own animals.
 
all about Romeo said:
Are passport really that easy to forge to another horse? or are the relevant authorities not doing enuff to ensure horses match their passports? perhaps microchipping and/ or freezmarking should become mandatory? would this help?
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Some passports are so vague you would not believe
One horse through Carlisle mart--passport said chestnut mare, no age, no height, no whorls!
 
I feel genuine pity for those horses belonging to people without the balls or the respect to PTS themselves when they are old, ill, or infirm and who think passing them on free of charge to random strangers is a kindness or a 'second chance'. Poor horses.

Healthy horses of any sort of monetary value are more usually sold.
 
Crugeran Celt said:
That is not strictly true, a friend of mine had three very nice horses and told me that she wanted to rehome them as the children had lost interest. She had found a home for the two big horses but had a 14hh that had been backed but not done anything since. I spoke to another friend of mine who had always liked this pony as we rode passed it regurlarly and she agreed to have her as she is a very small adult. That was five years ago and the two big horses are still happy in their new home and the pony is now jumping and competing and giving her new owner a lot of fun. It can happen.
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The difference being that these were 'three very nice horses', there will usually be someone for a very nice horse, older or injured/unrideable horses are a very different scenario and to give them away like a pair of old shoes is completely unacceptable.
 
Capriole said:
I feel genuine pity for those horses belonging to people without the balls or the respect to PTS themselves when they are old, ill, or infirm and who think passing them on free of charge to random strangers is a kindness or a 'second chance'. Poor horses.

Healthy horses of any sort of monetary value are more usually sold.
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Agree 100%
 
Amaranta said:
Ah the alter ego arrives, how surprising :rolleyes:
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I am really surprised about this as I only joined thie forum a few weeks ago for some advise about my miniature mare that was due to foal and had started having a yellowish discharge that I had not witnessed before. Was advised on the forum to call vet and was very grateful for all the messages I received. If you look for that thread you will find that my mare had a still birth a few days later, very distressing and recived many sympathetic messages on this forum which made the situation more bearable. Now this backlash! Not what I expected from fellow horse owners at all.
 
Capriole said:
I feel genuine pity for those horses belonging to people without the balls or the respect to PTS themselves when they are old, ill, or infirm and who think passing them on free of charge to random strangers is a kindness or a 'second chance'. Poor horses.

Healthy horses of any sort of monetary value are more usually sold.
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Just to clarify I am not talking about horses that are seriously ill or in pain and need to be PTS... or rehoming to random people.
 
Thank you for clarifying, as from your posts on this thread and others I really have no idea what you are saying, there seem to be so many contradictions within your posts that its hard to keep track.
 
Crugeran Celt said:
I am really surprised about this as I only joined thie forum a few weeks ago for some advise about my miniature mare that was due to foal and had started having a yellowish discharge that I had not witnessed before. Was advised on the forum to call vet and was very grateful for all the messages I received. If you look for that thread you will find that my mare had a still birth a few days later, very distressing and recived many sympathetic messages on this forum which made the situation more bearable. Now this backlash! Not what I expected from fellow horse owners at all.
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Im so sorry to hear about your still birth... must have been very distressing for you and your mare!
I had was given a heavily pregnant mare from the meat man many years ago... she foal ok and luckily everything went without a problem, I keep her stabled for months as I was unsure of her due date until eventually I turned her out and she foaled in the field!! (typical) :rolleyes: lol, the foal however turned out to right pain in the bum! put me right off having any more youngsters! typical chestnut filly with bags of attitude! x
 
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