What is you definition of an indiscriminate breeding?

Delicious_D

Delicious_D

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As the title really, its an idea whats talked about a lot lately...so what is your idea of indisciminate breeding?

Googles definition
in·dis·crim·i·nate
/ˌindiˈskrimənit/
Adjective

1. Done at random or without careful judgment: "indiscriminate killing".
2. (of a person) Not using or exercising discrimination.

Synonyms
promiscuous
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For me, it is when someone on a whim or who is offered the use of a poorly bred stallion (who probably doesnt deserve to be a stallion) decides they are going to breed to sell for money.

I would be interested to know, especially with so many rescue's going on, and the fab campaigne by Equine Market Watch, what is your view?
 
IMO, it's using an unproven mare or stallion to produce a foal without a need or purpose for it.

So it can be a solid little cob mare with a stallion known to throw nice 'people' with decent conformation who is a nice person and goes sweetly enough to breed a sweet alrounder type that will be reared with that purpose in mind. But a mare who can't be used for physical problems or bad attitude is a big no!
 
There are many variables I think.

- Breeding from poor horses either side is daft.
- Breeding for the sake of breeding is daft, there are nice horses out there to buy without breeding one
- Random mixes confuse me, but I am used to breeding for sport

Basically unless you are trying to breed a real quality competition horse I dont see the point as there are loads of 'okay' horses out there already!


:D
 
Lolo said:
IMO, it's using an unproven mare or stallion to produce a foal without a need or purpose for it.

So it can be a solid little cob mare with a stallion known to throw nice 'people' with decent conformation who is a nice person and goes sweetly enough to breed a sweet alrounder type that will be reared with that purpose in mind. But a mare who can't be used for physical problems or bad attitude is a big no!
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So in this incidence, i wonder what people think of wet nurse mares....used for TB racing industry for orphan foals? Most are heavy cob-type mares. Agree there is no point having a good stallion if the mare is not much cop and vice versa.

Nightmare before Christmas said:
There are many variables I think.

- Breeding from poor horses either side is daft.
- Breeding for the sake of breeding is daft, there are nice horses out there to buy without breeding one
- Random mixes confuse me, but I am used to breeding for sport

Basically unless you are trying to breed a real quality competition horse I dont see the point as there are loads of 'okay' horses out there already!


:D
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Agree :). But then begs the question, peoples definition of what is 'nice'. I mean, not everyone wants the next valegro, there is a market for the leisure horse and happy hacker.
 
Delicious_D said:
Agree :). But then begs the question, peoples definition of what is 'nice'. I mean, not everyone wants the next valegro, there is a market for the leisure horse and happy hacker.
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I agree but there are loads out there without breeding one. Thats my opinion though, I wouldnt actually tell anyone how to spend their own money. I tried to breed last year, my aim was to produce a nice 1.30/1.40 horse though but you never know what youve got till its on the ground I guess
 
Well........ breeding from a lovely proven mare, to a gorgeous top class stallion is in my mind total madness. :eek:
 
Nightmare before Christmas said:
I agree but there are loads out there without breeding one. Thats my opinion though, I wouldnt actually tell anyone how to spend their own money. I tried to breed last year, my aim was to produce a nice 1.30/1.40 horse though but you never know what youve got till its on the ground I guess
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Agreed, but if you breed a horse with correct conformation and proven bloodlines, you have an idea of what you might get. Nature can only so go far, its what happens once the foal has been born is what is equally as important.
 
Delicious_D said:
Agreed, but if you breed a horse with correct conformation and proven bloodlines, you have an idea of what you might get. Nature can only so go far, its what happens once the foal has been born is what is equally as important.
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True I was gutted my mare didnt take. Shes by Harlequin Du Carel and I tried her with Luidam and Peppermill. I would be very interested in the outcome! Sadly not to be
 
There is a dealer near us who runs a stallion with a field full of random mares, that to me is indiscriminate breeding, having said that he sells them from1k up as weanlings and always manages to get shot of them so maybe not!!

There is much truth in the saying that 'fools breed horses for wise men to ride'. I covered a very good mare with a really good stallion and the outcome was rubbish, back at the knee, though neither of it's parents were. Thought, planning and quality mare and stallion may increase your chances of a good outcome it is still a bit of a lottery.
 
Nightmare before Christmas said:
True I was gutted my mare didnt take. Shes by Harlequin Du Carel and I tried her with Luidam and Peppermill. I would be very interested in the outcome! Sadly not to be
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Peppermil would have been a very interesting foa. :) Its such a gamble isnt it. :)

minesadouble said:
There is a dealer near us who runs a stallion with a field full of random mares, that to me is indiscriminate breeding, having said that he sells them from1k up as weanlings and always manages to get shot of them so maybe not!!

There is much truth in the saying that 'fools breed horses for wise men to ride'. I covered a very good mare with a really good stallion and the outcome was rubbish, back at the knee, though neither of it's parents were. Thought, planning and quality mare and stallion may increase your chances of a good outcome it is still a bit of a lottery.
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That is my defintion of indiscriminant breeding..but as you say, you can put two very good horses together and have a crap outcome.
 
tankgirl1 said:
DD is my definition of indiscriminate breeding - breeding for breedings sake :mad:
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I don't think that breeding from a much loved mare with the result being a 'keeper' is neccessarily indiscriminate breeding.

It would probably be cheaper and more sensible to buy a well bred youngster but many people who have a mare they have really loved riding like the idea of having one of her offspring to keep. As long as they have the money, time, knowledge and facilities to do so I see nothing wrong in that.
 
As above I think there are different types of indescriminate breeding

Breeding because you are 'unable' or too lazy to separate herds or think its all lovely and natural to let them all run together

Breeding because you have always done so - the big native pony studs who are seeing their stock sell for low amounts at auction dont seem to be learning from these low prices despite being conciencious enough to pay out for vets etc

Breeding because any money is good or because people can cash in on the sympathy factor, breed from the stallion down the road (or even better your own) dont spend anything on vets and dont give the mare any extra care = low overheads

If I wanted to sell my two youngsters tomorrow I could not groom them for a month, let their hooves grow long, make them a baler twine halter and get a large person to sit on them, I would almost certainly end up selling them purely on the sympathy factor for a good deal more than a nicely bred registered Welsh pony who may fetch £50 at auction, even better if I make them look really worse for wear they may end up on here getting thousands of views each - so why bother taking the trouble when things like that pay?
 
Delicious_D said:
But i am breeding for a reason....
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Exactly, and so Dee's foal will not end up on DD being sat on by a full grown man at 2yo old!

I have read some of your threads and I know that Dee's baby will have a home for life, I don't have a problem with that at all :)

I just don't like the horsey equivalent of back yard staffie breeders, who hope they will earn a few quid :mad:
 
minesadouble said:
I don't think that breeding from a much loved mare with the result being a 'keeper' is neccessarily indiscriminate breeding.

It would probably be cheaper and more sensible to buy a well bred youngster but many people who have a mare they have really loved riding like the idea of having one of her offspring to keep. As long as they have the money, time, knowledge and facilities to do so I see nothing wrong in that.
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Thank you :)

Dee is very well bred as is the stallion and the foal is for me. The reason i have bred rather then bought is because i want to improve on areas of dee, i spent a lot of time choosing my stallion.
 
As someone further up said - breeding without need. I do understand someone having a mare who has been their horse of a lifetime and wanting to produce a foal from that mare, but breeding just because you have a mare? No. It was something I considered a couple of years ago when my mare had some issues, mental and physical (not physical issues that would have affected her ability to carry a foal) and is a stunning looking horse, but as someone said at that time, if you put a mare in foal, there is always a chance that you can lose the mare as well as the foal and I'm just not prepared to do that.
 
tankgirl1 said:
Exactly, and so Dee's foal will not end up on DD being sat on by a full grown man at 2yo old!

I have read some of your threads and I know that Dee's baby will have a home for life, I don't have a problem with that at all :)

I just don't like the horsey equivalent of back yard staffie breeders, who hope they will earn a few quid :mad:
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I got dd = delicioa dee mixed up with dd = dragons driving :P

my apologies! I thought you were having a snipe at me! :O
 
minesadouble said:
I don't think that breeding from a much loved mare with the result being a 'keeper' is neccessarily indiscriminate breeding.

It would probably be cheaper and more sensible to buy a well bred youngster but many people who have a mare they have really loved riding like the idea of having one of her offspring to keep. As long as they have the money, time, knowledge and facilities to do so I see nothing wrong in that.
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I meant dragondriving :o Not Delicious_D :o
 
In the current climate (which won't change in the medium term for the horse industry) almost any breeding in unnecessary - there are 10,000s of unwanted horses of all shapes sizes and ages.

Breeding rare breeds (suffolk punch, cleveland bay etc.) I could stretch to.

Breeding for yourself is fine if you have your own land with no mortgage and considerable ongoing disposable income - many many threads on here about 3/4 year old home breeds who were supposed to be 'keepers' but peoples circumstances have changed.

I don't intend to make comment on you particularly OP - please don't take any offence. I just have a personal very hard line on this and evey time I see 'free to good home' or equivalent facebook post it makes me think more and more I am right.
 
Im staggered at the amount of breeding done by reputable studs that is indiscriminate e.g a top class Welsh A stud that inbreed so much, I bought a colt foal off one ( he was going for meat) His mum and dad were full brother and sister, but because they had had a winner before they kept going. Poor pony was a rig (because of the breeding line) also had a parrot mouth but did turn into a lovely child's pony . The other two I bought a filly and a colt (again going for meat) were inbred so much as well.

People complain about people breeding the odd foal cos they fancy it, but people should take a look at these top class studs (Welsh A's and B's) that turn out show animals that win, I saw some sights of the way some of the "useless" ones that were kept in horrifying conditions that went for meat.

The one stud had several ponies that were in a worst state than the horses found at spindles farm. Did the RSPCA do anything, no, because the owner was a respected member of the Welsh pony and cob society and a respected judge. (this was in 1992)
 
I definitely wouldn't say using an unproven stallion was necessarily "indiscriminate" - many breeders use them if they have the right temperament, conformation and bloodlines, because once they are proven they are more expensive. I am sure there are many who would have wished they had used just two of the ones at Brendon as 2 year olds (Warrior and Don VHP Z) - I know I wish I had used the latter!!

anyway, to me indiscriminate is using any old stallion with no known breeding, poor conformation to a similar mare, with no real care as to what happens to the youngster..no medical care in pregnancy, no presence at the birth and foal surviving on a wing and a prayer to cost around £50 to £200.

I personally started off breeding to breed good sports horses with a view to selling them as foals. Unfortunately, I am picky who I sell them to so I found two very good homes for two of them and have kept the other two to produce. I am not breeding any more until I can do the same with any others as it is too hit and miss finding owners for babies.
 
Polos Mum said:
In the current climate (which won't change in the medium term for the horse industry) almost any breeding in unnecessary - there are 10,000s of unwanted horses of all shapes sizes and ages.

Breeding rare breeds (suffolk punch, cleveland bay etc.) I could stretch to.

Breeding for yourself is fine if you have your own land with no mortgage and considerable ongoing disposable income - many many threads on here about 3/4 year old home breeds who were supposed to be 'keepers' but peoples circumstances have changed.

I don't intend to make comment on you particularly OP - please don't take any offence. I just have a personal very hard line on this and evey time I see 'free to good home' or equivalent facebook post it makes me think more and more I am right.
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I love suffolk punches :) (sorry, seeing the name made me grin :D - when i was a kid i wanted to own a pair and travel to work in a cart lead by them :D). I hate the 'free to good home'.....i always fele sorry for the poor horses as usually they are sick/injured :(

zigzag said:
Im staggered at the amount of breeding done by reputable studs that is indiscriminate e.g a top class Welsh A stud that inbreed so much, I bought a colt foal off one ( he was going for meat) His mum and dad were full brother and sister, but because they had had a winner before they kept going. Poor pony was a rig (because of the breeding line) also had a parrot mouth but did turn into a lovely child's pony . The other two I bought a filly and a colt (again going for meat) were inbred so much as well.

People complain about people breeding the odd foal cos they fancy it, but people should take a look at these top class studs (Welsh A's and B's) that turn out show animals that win, I saw some sights of the way some of the "useless" ones that were kept in horrifying conditions that went for meat.

The one stud had several ponies that were in a worst state than the horses found at spindles farm. Did the RSPCA do anything, no, because the owner was a respected member of the Welsh pony and cob society and a respected judge. (this was in 1992)
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I dont agree with some of the line breeding done nowadays....i understand some people do it to get a foal more like the bloodline they are trying to create but the genetic risks are far too great.

HBM1 said:
I definitely wouldn't say using an unproven stallion was necessarily "indiscriminate" - many breeders use them if they have the right temperament, conformation and bloodlines, because once they are proven they are more expensive. I am sure there are many who would have wished they had used just two of the ones at Brendon as 2 year olds (Warrior and Don VHP Z) - I know I wish I had used the latter!!

anyway, to me indiscriminate is using any old stallion with no known breeding, poor conformation to a similar mare, with no real care as to what happens to the youngster..no medical care in pregnancy, no presence at the birth and foal surviving on a wing and a prayer to cost around £50 to £200.

I personally started off breeding to breed good sports horses with a view to selling them as foals. Unfortunately, I am picky who I sell them to so I found two very good homes for two of them and have kept the other two to produce. I am not breeding any more until I can do the same with any others as it is too hit and miss finding owners for babies.
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I my definition of unproven is a stallion with poor bloodlines/unknown bloodlines who stands in a field, no real job etc. Young stallions are 'unproven' in the fact they are young and not really campaigned, but with good breeding they still have a worth. You dont just breed with whats in front of you but with the knowledge of how that stallion/mare came about. For instance, dee is a donnerhall x sao paulo, the stallion im choosing is ringo x may sherrif x alekander.
 
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