What makes a good instructor good?

[Keith_Beef]

For me, the key to being a really good instructor is being a good communicator (listening as well as explaining) - there are lots of people who can ride very well but can't always communicate exactly what they are doing, or maybe they aren't quite aware of how they produce the results they do!

Not only in horse riding, but in every field: there are plenty of people who are very good at what they do, but cannot explain to other people how to improve.

I have a friend who did his military service in an alpine regiment and is a really good skier. My first time skiing was cross-country with a group of friends including my now OH and him, and everybody could ski except for me. All he could do is say "watch what I do, and do the same". I could not see at all what he was doing in order to turn corners... in the end, I planted the tips of both skis into a bank, fell over sideways and broke two bones in my hand.

 

[tristar]

someone who can train horses from scratch, who knows how it all comes about and how it all happens, who can impart what they feel when training, who is kind and makes riding fun, someone who loves horses and does`nt give a fig about rosettes

 

[tristar]

Everyone’s already made some really salient points around knowledge, attitude and communication, so I won’t duplicate!

What I would also like to add is that personally, I would outright refuse to ride for any instructor that basically ask me to “fight” with my horse - ie tell me to be stricter, a lot more leg (pointlessly), punish, shorter reins (pointlessly), saw at the mouth, etc. I just don’t have the energy in me to deal with that, and find patience, repetition, and maybe just a dangling schooling whip does the trick anyway.

It’s difficult enough having to learn new movements and focus on your seat without having to wage war against your horse (a lot of the time just confusing it/riling it/making it dislike certain movements) because somebody who’s not on it wants to act the disciplinarian. They don’t have to live with the consequences of a sour/stressed/confused horse, or the guilt and anxiety we feel as gentle riders forced to act that way, which comes completely unnaturally.

I feel like I came across a lot more of these instructors as a child, but have thankfully managed to avoid them as an adult, as I can make my own choices/have a more level relationship with the instructor age-wise/have moved up the levels. Still, the intense dislike towards that sort of instructor lives on - my blood boils every time I hear someone yelling at (especially) children and young adults that way. Especially when I can see the rider in question has a soft hand and seat and the horse is acting anxiously. And when I spot the rider’s glazed/confused/teary eyes, their tight lips and general internalised agony.

Let soft riders be soft riders! Let people (and horses) take their time to learn pedagogically, by explanation, support and repetition! If it doesn’t work, slow down and repeat the ask at a walk!

Drives me bonkers.

oh god, this a hundred times

 

[Buster2020]

Someone who can get the best out of horse and rider and someone who is no afraid to say to truth but in a nice way.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

... double post

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I am deeply put off if the trainer chats to people, talks on the phone or otherwise disengages with the lesson. Lessons are usually £1 a minute +, so I expect that the trainer pays attention.

The biggest one for me though, many long time trainers become weary. They burn out. They stopping it because they are enthusiastic and start to do it for the money. They tend to be the ones who are no longer learning and evolving themselves. They are the ones who do an exercise with the first person of the day, then somehow end up repeating the same exercise for each lesson. They are partly just going through the motions. They may stick a big fence up and have you do it, then end the lesson early as the horse is tired or whatever. They may give loads of praise, but have simply stopped being innovative.

The phone thing drives me mad. There is another big name at Somerford who chats on the phonw all the way through his lessons, Why anyone ever goes back for more of that is a mystery to me.

And I agree a lot of people use training to fund their own horsey ambitions rather than because they actually enjoy it or are inspired by it. They don't particularly try to be good at it as far as I can see.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

this may just be because they were rubbish trainers though. I have found that if you are someone who is ambitious, it can be time-saving (in a constructive way) and efficient in the longer term to train with someone who can see that the building blocks you put in right at the start are then ready for you to pick up, several levels upwards. or that there are alternative ways of teaching techniques to the horse that you only really stumble upon further up the levels.

But are all great riders, also great trainers? Some great riders have never really ridden normal, ordinary horses. They were on future superstars from childhood. So maybe the holy grail is the great rider who became great via grassroots and who does very well with fairly basic raw materials? And for whom training horses and riders is a passion not a chore.

 

[ihatework]

Training and riding are two different skills.

Some trainers can’t ride well
Some riders can’t train well
Some can do both

I’d take a good trainer that can’t ride over a good rider that can’t train. But there comes a point in ones development when the former just doesn’t quite cut it and you need someone that can do both.

Someone who has ridden and trained a variety of people and horses. Someone who has made all the mistakes that the pupil is making. Someone who really understands how difficult it is to do it right and the different pressures that apply. That takes years of experience

 

[milliepops]

But are all great riders, also great trainers? Some great riders have never really ridden normal, ordinary horses. They were on future superstars from childhood. So maybe the holy grail is the great rider who became great via grassroots and who does very well with fairly basic raw materials? And for whom training horses and riders is a passion not a chore.

No, not at all. but the opposite isn't true either, there are some great riders who definitely are great trainers too. I just think lots of HHO is so quick to say that good riders can't explain what they are doing because they are just naturals, when there are plenty who can and who have to work at it just the same as the rest of us.

I don't really care whether a good rider and trainer is self made from riding bin end horses like mine, or had a huge leg up riding top flight amazingly bred animals, so long as they have the knowledge I need and want, and can put it across to me in a way I can understand and that my horses understand. Again there's a danger of reverse snobbery getting in the way otherwise.

I think good trainers by definition are the passionate ones, rather than those going through the motions.

 

[Roxylola]

But are all great riders, also great trainers? Some great riders have never really ridden normal, ordinary horses. They were on future superstars from childhood. So maybe the holy grail is the great rider who became great via grassroots and who does very well with fairly basic raw materials? And for whom training horses and riders is a passion not a chore.

I was thinking about this type of thing earlier - my mind wanders walking the dogs.
I'm a pretty decent coach, I will make my pupils work hard and i want to make them think and equip them to ride better when I'm not there too. I've got a good enough eye to train above myself as well. I'm not a particularly talented rider but I am a skilled one. I've learned lots of skills over the years to make me a good effective (considerate) rider. Ive developed feel and I've a pretty good understanding of the mechanics of our bodies/their bodies.
But, I'm not talented. I can get on most horses and get a tune out of them but only by applying the skills I've learned theres no magic in it.
Is skill more important than talent when it comes to training? Is it easier to convey your knowledge when it's been learned as skills as opposed to natural talent?

 

[milliepops]

I think it sort of depends a bit what you want out of a coaching environment personally, too.

I currently have a fairly holistic sort of relationship with current trainer, he's helped me a lot with the psychology side of being in a very individualistic sport where you are on your own with the horse almost all the time, as well as some other management stuff and personal troubles that lockdown really magnified. it's helpful to have someone who understands the struggles that the amateur rider has, it's bloody lonely sometimes.

i have posted before about the transformative effect a single lesson with CDJ had on me - I can't imagine her being prepared to spend 10 mins chewing over what's going on that is putting me in a negative place (though that's just an assumption, I might be completely wrong). it was a much more businesslike experience and it's not wrong - if you're paying for training, training is what you expect to get, not counselling
so she wouldn't necessarily fix my life woes, but she absolutely skyrocketed my riding in an hour.

I think both are valid, I generally prefer the "turn up and ride" approach because then you really get the most from a session but occasionally I really value the more touchy feely one where there's time to unpack some stuff that's holding you back.

anyway, bringing it back to Roxy's point, I think the person who has had to scratch along learning a skill might be better at the touchy feely bit because they know how hard it can be to get those skills. but I don't mind the other version sometimes, provided I'm able to flail around figuring it out with their help rather than them being exasperated because I don't get it.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I think what is also coming across from this thread as this you need different trainers at different stages and for different things! What I needed when I was getting over a phobic fear of jumping is different to what I needed when I was wanting to event and different again to what I need now as I am trying to bring on a young horse.

My current dressage teacher is good at getting me and Toby looking and feeling good but not very good at helping me understand how to achieve that on our own. I can follow instructions. But I don't know how to fix things for myself. I am going to keep looking for other trainers as I think that is the biggest thing holding me back now.

 

[DressageCob]

I think it sort of depends a bit what you want out of a coaching environment personally, too.
...
anyway, bringing it back to Roxy's point, I think the person who has had to scratch along learning a skill might be better at the touchy feely bit because they know how hard it can be to get those skills. but I don't mind the other version sometimes, provided I'm able to flail around figuring it out with their help rather than them being exasperated because I don't get it.

I actually quite like people who have a natural feel or talent and don't understand why I'm finding it difficult...
it gets me cross and motivates me to sort my life out and get it right ?

 

[ihatework]

I think what is also coming across from this thread as this you need different trainers at different stages and for different things! What I needed when I was getting over a phobic fear of jumping is different to what I needed when I was wanting to event and different again to what I need now as I am trying to bring on a young horse.

My current dressage teacher is good at getting me and Toby looking and feeling good but not very good at helping me understand how to achieve that on our own. I can follow instructions. But I don't know how to fix things for myself. I am going to keep looking for other trainers as I think that is the biggest thing holding me back now.

I think that is very true and have seen on more than one occasion a good trainer (more in the lacking riding/competing experience category) be very self aware of their strengths and weakness’ and at a stage of their clients development actually say - I think you should go to XYZ for ABC. I always have time for people like that

 

[ycbm]

The phone thing drives me mad. There is another big name at Somerford who chats on the phone all the way through his lessons, Why anyone ever goes back for more of that is a mystery to me.
.

If you're talking about who I think your talking about he also does that while he's interval training his eventers! I once watched him spend twenty minutes on his phone while he did 3 x 5 mins canter round and round the first two arenas on what used to be the wood chip.

I won't train a second time with anyone who answers their mobile while I'm paying them £1 a minute for their time.
.

 

[mairiwick]

AE I am fairly certain we were on the same camp as Katie and came away equally baffled by the SJ lesson! He did however ask what we wanted to achieve and then we warmed up for a good 20 mins of the lesson... however jumps didn't progress higher than about 50cm and we jumped the same 4 jumps nothing else. One friend in the lesson got a lot out of it because her horse has had serious issues SJ in the past and he took a lot of time helping her. For us it was almost like here's a chance to get some good feedback and direction over a lovely course and all we got was a warm up. What got me most was the session before us overran by 15 mins and yet he cut ours off dead on the hour.. very frustrating!

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Sounds like Katie was lucky with 60cm!!! Glad some people found it good. Camp overall was great fun.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

I really like that my current instructor took time at the beginning to go through a range of things to check what I could remember from before I had a break from riding, this helped me feel like she was getting a good balance between not getting ahead of me but finding the 'edges' of my knowledge and skills to develop.

I like that she is open to hearing my goals, invites questions, and gives me an opportunity to share what I think instead of going straight to telling me - like yesterday riding out of the school for the first time, she asked me what I noticed was different and what I could feel. Then she explained the reason behind this and the things I needed to adjust and think about.

I'm trying really hard this time not to keep labelling myself a "nervous rider" because I used to do this a lot and I don't think it is helpful to identify with it too much - how can I become something else if that's how I think of myself? That said, I'm aware my confidence will take time to build and can easily be lost - it's most important to me to have an instructor who can work with the 'wobbles' and normalise 'the fear' so that I can still come away having achieved something by the end of the lesson

 

[mairiwick]

Sounds like Katie was lucky with 60cm!!! Glad some people found it good. Camp overall was great fun.

It was, was my first one with new horse and loved the flatwork and biomechanics sessions! XC brought out some issues and some demons but ended day 2 on a smile so all good!

 

[ApolloStorm]

I’ve been listening to the Mary Wanless- ride with your mind podcast. Well worth a listen. But on one episode she talks about how good instructors can turn “Right brain” feel, into “left brain” words that the rider can understand and turn back into the correct “ right brain” feel. And that a good instructor can use words specific to each rider rather than generic terms that have been used for decades without anyone really understanding.

 

[brighteyes]

Katie had an awful SJ lesson with a big name at camp. And today I had one of the best lessons ever on Toby with a new trainer who was running a clinic at our yard. I only booked in because it was the only way of getting riding time today! But she was fab. It got me musing on what I felt made him so bad and her so good….

Firstly camp trainer did not ask anyone any questions at the start of the lesson. Such as age of horse, experience level of horse or rider, goals, upcoming events etc etc. 2 people in the lesson had comps coming up at British Novice or BE and had they been asked, they would have wanted to be prepared for those. And there was a 4 year old in the lesson. It was only half way through that he called out ‘how old is your horse’ and realised she was a baby. Today’s trainer asked about both me and Toby and asked what we wanted to work on, any areas to focus on in particular etc.

Secondly camp trainer said go and warm up but don’t take too long because flatwork is boring. Then during the warm up he gossiped to the parents about his illustrious international coaching career while smoking a fag. Trainer today said warm up how you normally would and then spent a good few minutes talking about the warm up, the canter quality for jumping etc

When we started juming camp trainer gave no individual feedback at all apart from ‘good’ or ‘STINKER’ without explaining what was good and how to improve. He spent the whole lesson shouting ‘wait wait’ without every explaining what he meant by ‘wait’. From an observer point of view there was no improvement in any of the horses through the hour. The fences were tiny and never went up and the lines were easy. Nothing technical. No focus to the lesson. They just jumped a small course a few times. The horses who chipped in at the start were still chipping in. The ones that rushed were still rushing etc.

After every set of jumps trainer 2 asked what the rider thought was good and what could be improved. She then gave advice on what to do to make it better. So all the advice was tailored to each partnership. Each course was different – either a different line, or a bit higher or adding in fillers or whatever. So for Toby I needed to work on keeping the canter energized round corners so my lines were very bendy!

At the end camp trainer bigged himself up, saying 'I bet your horses have never gone so well' and that was it.

Today’s trainer gave me specific homework to work on the areas of weakness that we found.

After the lesson I could name many things that I got from the lesson!

Positives to keep doing:

• Riding good lines into fences
• Looking ahead
• Having a good canter as I start the course.

Things I could improve

• Don’t drop the contact as I approach the jump.
• Use a driving seat around the corner and keep my leg on more
• Ride away more positively from the jumps
• Use the space in the arena better to give myself more room

I asked Katie and her friend what they learned from Camp Trainer and they could not name one thing - good or bad - that they took from the lesson.

Camp trainer is considerably more expensive!!! Maybe he felt teaching kids was beneath him and he couldn’t be bothered to try?

So what makes a good trainer in your eyes? Because it is not how high a level you competed at or how much you cost as far as I can see.

I think he was saying it for effect. Too cool for school kind of thing. Prat!

Yikes to the camp trainer. Dreadful attitude. PM me who it was so I can avoid!


Today’s trainer gave me specific homework to work on the areas of weakness that we found.

After the lesson I could name many things that I got from the lesson!

Positives to keep doing:

• Riding good lines into fences
• Looking ahead
• Having a good canter as I start the course.

Things I could improve

• Don’t drop the contact as I approach the jump.
• Use a driving seat around the corner and keep my leg on more
• Ride away more positively from the jumps
• Use the space in the arena better to give myself more room

That's the kind of feedback to expect after a lesson with a trainer who has established you and your horse's partnership and history (briefly) and not tried to get you to do anything beyond the training stage you are both at.

I always respond to any 'Goods' if it doesn't feel good so I can establish why or what I am missing! I don't need or want flattery and can take constructive negatives fine

 

[nikkimariet]

Ditto MP.

I don’t blow smoke up bums and certainly don’t want any up mine. Tell me if what I’m doing is working and how to make it better.