What next?

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jilly2024

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Hello again!
Just looking for a "what would you do" kind of thing.

If you'd seen my previous post, you'll know my 8 yo ID was diagnosed with suspensory issues last year.
He has had the neurectomy/fasciotomy and we are bringing him slowly back to work after months of handwalking etc.

I have a professional rider coming a couple of times a week, and even she has said how explosive and unpredictable he has been, although she can eventually get some nice work from him. We took him off haylege and back on soaked hay in case the sugar was irritating his tummy (previously had ulcers) but he is still so anxious from the second he leaves the mounting block, and is particularly reactive to seeing other horses in the field or being led out etc. He has also bolted and rodeoed me off, and even hacking with the pro rider is hard work.

He was bought as he was a quiet dope on a rope kick along type, although green he was sensible and quiet. But as time goes on I am honestly more and more worried about even getting on.

Ultimately I am looking for a horse that I can ride in the arena, do lessons/clinics on, go out to the forest etc and I cant see how it will ever be this horse but I cannot sell due to his extensive medical history (hock inj, SI inj, suspenory op, ulcers, asthma, and a previous fracture in a non weight bearing bone), and he isnt easy to work with generally so I would imagine he would get passed from pillar to post.

I have the chiropractor coming tonight, have contacted the vet to scope in case his ulcers are back post surgery/box rest etc but after that I dont know where to go with this horse.

So really, what would you do? Send for schooling for a month? Retire? Try him on permanent loan with a more able rider? (He cant be field retired as he is a big fat native and wouldnt last the summer, nor do I have funds for another field ornament).
 
Honestly, I'd suspect he's still in pain somewhere and I'd be looking at retire or PTS. But that is so much easier to type from a keyboard not knowing either of you, than when you're in the situation yourself. I have been in a similar spot 3 times and retired them each time, but I was lucky I could do that, and they were horses that could live out 24/7 comfortably.
 
Alibear said:
Honestly, I'd suspect he's still in pain somewhere and I'd be looking at retire or PTS. But that is so much easier to type from a keyboard not knowing either of you, than when you're in the situation yourself. I have been in a similar spot 3 times and retired them each time, but I was lucky I could do that, and they were horses that could live out 24/7 comfortably.
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Totally agree- I'm afraid the horse is screaming that he is still in pain
 
Alibear said:
Honestly, I'd suspect he's still in pain somewhere and I'd be looking at retire or PTS. But that is so much easier to type from a keyboard not knowing either of you, than when you're in the situation yourself. I have been in a similar spot 3 times and retired them each time, but I was lucky I could do that, and they were horses that could live out 24/7 comfortably.
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Yeah I think to be honest I agree. If he scopes positive for ulcers, then that might be all it is and that's great we can treat that, but just with so much going on behind, its so plausible there is something else. I promised myself I wasnt doing anymore big veterinary investigations, we are many 1000s in at this stage and Id considered PTS instead if the suspensory op but thought one more try. Its so hard given he is STUNNING and is a big playful goofter most of the time but clearly he is not totally happy on the inside :(
 
jilly2024 said:
Thank you. Do you think ulcers are a possibility or am I grasping at straws? My chiro who is coming tonight is a vet so Ill ask her as well x
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ulcers are deffo a possibility BUT you have to ask why they keep coming back....99% of the time its a pain issue so i would guess he is still sore somewhere hence the ulcers.

if you have the ££££ you can try one more time to treat the ulcers and see where you are, if they return etc.
 
Hallo2012 said:
ulcers are deffo a possibility BUT you have to ask why they keep coming back....99% of the time its a pain issue so i would guess he is still sore somewhere hence the ulcers.

if you have the ££££ you can try one more time to treat the ulcers and see where you are, if they return etc.
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I had thought the ulcers might come back given the stress of the trip to dublin to stay in the vet, the surgery, the recovery, the box rest, and probably the few months prior to all of that when he had suspensory pain. Plus haylege on top which if he had ulcers brewing probs made him even more uncomfortable. But he was so good during that time I sort of put them to the back of my mind but now he is coming back into work something is very clearly bothering him.

But equally they could be brand new ulcers due to pain elsewhere, so many issues is bound to create additional issues :(
 
Hannahgb said:
Suspensory's are nearly always secondary to something else. I would lay money on the fact there is something else going on with him. I wouldn't blame you at all for considering PTS so he is out of pain x
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We think suspensory issues were secondary to compensating during his fracture, and he also scanned positive for changes to the SI so there is 100% other things going on x
 
Doesn’t sound like physically he will stand up to any sort of job that a capable rider would require of him. Demonstrating ongoing pain.

In all honesty it now doesn’t really matter what it is. It’s most likely multiple things.
He doesn’t sound safe to ride and it doesn’t sound ethical to keep trying.

So for me it would be retirement or pts, horse and situation dependant.
 
ihatework said:
Doesn’t sound like physically he will stand up to any sort of job that a capable rider would require of him. Demonstrating ongoing pain.

In all honesty it now doesn’t really matter what it is. It’s most likely multiple things.
He doesn’t sound safe to ride and it doesn’t sound ethical to keep trying.

So for me it would be retirement or pts, horse and situation dependant.
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Yeah thats probably it in a nutshell, thank you. I think I was just looking for reassurance that Im thinking along the right lines (I have a few people that keep suggesting other things like schooling livery etc and knowing the horse, I agree its not fair on him to keep pushing).
 
Fraggle2 said:
Is it worth getting his back x rayed? If not ulcers he may have kissing spines.
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That would be my suspicion too. He sounds like Lari.

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Lari was very reactive when ridden to sounds on the yard, like someone putting a wheelbarrow down or a bucket being clanked and any other stimuli like a horse being brought in from the field.
 
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Sorry that you are still having issues with your horse. I see you mention travelling to Dublin and that your chiro is also a vet. Maybe leaping to conclusions but is your chiro Esther?
 
sheep said:
Sorry that you are still having issues with your horse. I see you mention travelling to Dublin and that your chiro is also a vet. Maybe leaping to conclusions but is your chiro Esther?
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No its a girl called Hannah we use, she isnt dublin based but he was in dublin/kildare at the referral vets for his operation x
 
jilly2024 said:
No its a girl called Hannah we use, she isnt dublin based but he was in dublin/kildare at the referral vets for his operation x
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Ahhh fair enough, was just wondering if you were based in the north cos I know Esther fairly well (accident prone horse!).
Hope you get some clarity on your boy soon, it sounds like a very tough situation x
 
sheep said:
Ahhh fair enough, was just wondering if you were based in the north cos I know Esther fairly well (accident prone horse!).
Hope you get some clarity on your boy soon, it sounds like a very tough situation x
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If its Esther Skelly Smith youve used then Ive heard amazing things about her but she is probably the only one we havent met yet! X
 
Birker2020 said:
That would be my suspicion too. He sounds like Lari.

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Lari was very reactive when ridden to sounds on the yard, like someone putting a wheelbarrow down or a bucket being clanked and any other stimuli like a horse being brought in from the field.
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Yeah he is quite like that and moreso ridden than in hand. He is very sound reactive and it has definitely got progressively worse (i cant open your Facebook link for some reason)
 
jilly2024 said:
We think suspensory issues were secondary to compensating during his fracture, and he also scanned positive for changes to the SI so there is 100% other things going on x
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It's a compensatory movement pattern, and it affects the whole body. Doesn't mean to say everything gets to "clinical" level, but there won't be much that's completely unaffected, I wish vets would express this as it would help shift attitudes to, and protocols for, rehab. I suspect it's pain, and there may be nothing to be done. I would consider playing with the gentlest groundwork just to see if you can SEE more, if he responds to that sort of approach, if you can shift that movement pattern. It's not a great white hope at this stage, but might be worth looking at.

As I so often do I'd suggest you have a look at https://www.facebook.com/groups/185219844520695, check out the featured posts and maybe read around, use the search function to see the other rehabbers in there (most are, but not all). It will help him with his emotional regulation, which can help ulcers of course as they can be triggered by stress as much as pain, but I think the most likely explanation is existing pain.
 
jilly2024 said:
Yeah he is quite like that and moreso ridden than in hand. He is very sound reactive and it has definitely got progressively worse (i cant open your Facebook link for some reason)
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Still from the video of when he took off with the pro rider. And from what he did with me in reaction to being ridden during a saddle fit. I never quite got my confidence back after that.
 

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