What on EARTH are these?

Lady La La said:
I'm with yout 100% on this one. They look like horrible things...
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they are... :(

i also hate choke chains too. Im not against halti's and gentle leaders though when used correctly.

fwiw... my spaniely thing... walks lovely on the lead and normal collar as when she was younger if she pulled i always said "heel" and turned the other way. patience pays off.
 
I seem to remember there was a thread about these a while back. Not my choice at all but I guess it's like bitting up a horse - it's better to have control in a pelham that pull the horse's mouth to bits with a snaffle.
 
Brownmare said:
I seem to remember there was a thread about these a while back. Not my choice at all but I guess it's like bitting up a horse - it's better to have control in a pelham that pull the horse's mouth to bits with a snaffle.
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Except a Pelham doesn't hurt the horse in any way. These look quite painful!
 
Lady La La said:
Except a Pelham doesn't hurt the horse in any way. These look quite painful!
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I beg to differ, I've seen a horse's mouth shredded by inappropriate bits.

The prongs aren't (or shouldn't be) sharp, it's a blunt pinch. Certainly not something every Joe Bloggs should use on their dog but as a tool they have their place, just like choke chains and headcollars.
 
blackcob said:
I beg to differ, I've seen a horse's mouth shredded by inappropriate bits.

The prongs aren't (or shouldn't be) sharp, it's a blunt pinch. Certainly not something every Joe Bloggs should use on their dog but as a tool they have their place, just like choke chains and headcollars.
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True, when used in the wrong way, Which i guess applies to this coller too...

I'd just never seen anything like it before, and judged too quickly I guess.

Appologies :o
 
I think they have their place, along with chokes.

They are far less cruel to the dog than it being put down because it is agressive / tears your arms off on a walk / is generally a tit to handle.
 
littlemisslauren said:
I think they have their place, along with chokes.

They are far less cruel to the dog than it being put down because it is agressive / tears your arms off on a walk / is generally a tit to handle.
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Agree with this. They are a last resort for a strong aggressive dog. I've used one before so has CC on B.

It the right hands they are just another training tool. When you see them work they don't even pinch, they are blunt ended.
 
As usual, people jumping to conclusions without properly understanding how an item works and how in the correct hands they are useful for training. :rolleyes:

I hope CC comes along and sees this thread to give her insight into them. It just might change people's minds.
 
The clue is in the name PINCH collar. I know of several people (including CC on here) who have used them with great success to control a big strong dog. No different to using a different bit on a strong horse, and in the same way a collar that actually gets the dog to listen is far preferable to every walk being a constant battle. I would rather see a dog with a knowledgeable handler using a pinch collar than a novice using a headcollar and yanking and nearly breaking the poor animals neck.
Ets. CC is away at the moment, but sure she won't mind me suggesting people search out any post by her and look at the siggy, I am pretty sure B is wearing a pinch collar in that, and doesn't look exactly traumatised.
 
GinaB said:
As usual, people jumping to conclusions without properly understanding how an item works and how in the correct hands they are useful for training. :rolleyes:

I hope CC comes along and sees this thread to give her insight into them. It just might change people's minds.
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Woah... I've already appologised, and stated that Conclusions were jumped too, as I'd never seen anything like it before...

Plus my thread was entitled 'What on earth are these'... Not "Ban these awful gadgets" ...
 
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Lady La La said:
Woah... I've already appologised, and stated that Conclusions were jumped too, as I'd never seen anything like it before...

Plus my thread was entitled 'What on earth are these'... Not "Ban these awful gadgets" ...
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Sorry LadyLaLa, not aimed at you just in general :) I'm a bit narky today so that came across a lot shorter than what it should have done, so I apologise if you thought I was picking on you.
 
GinaB said:
Sorry LadyLaLa, not aimed at you just in general :) I'm a bit narky today so that came across a lot shorter than what it should have done, so I apologise if you thought I was picking on you.
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No worries :)

I didn't mean to offend anyone, I honestly had never seen these before, and didnt take the time to have a proper look at them... :eek:
 
Lady La La said:
No, The only place I can find online stores that sell them is America!
I've put an offer on one on Ebay which they're asking 50 quid for, but I was sort of hoping I'd be able to find one slightly cheaper than that?!
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Do they not do shipping from the US?

Just checked you can get that one i showed you for about £33 including shipping.

The good thing about those is they are custom made to fit!
 
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katielou_houston said:
Agree with this. They are a last resort for a strong aggressive dog.
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katielou, WRONG!! Pain, or discomfort will send an aggressive dog, ever onwards, and will only serve to make matters worse. Such dogs can be difficult to deal with, but spiked collars are not the answer. In a similar vein, there should be no place for haltis in the training of a dog. To teach a dog to walk to heal, they should FIRST learn OFF the lead. They will have previously learnt what a lead is, that I accept, but aids, the physical type, will teach a dog nothing. The dog must learn to walk at your side, before the lead is applied.

A previous post mentioned a change of direction when teaching heel walking, absolutely right. Progress will be made with a dog when you have two things in place; firstly that it wants to please you, and secondly, and when you have that in place, then the dog LOOKS at you. It's vital.

Severe collars for dogs, are rather like severe bits for horses, they should only be used by the most experienced, and I've yet to resort to either.

Any attachment can be put on a dog, but if it doesn't want to listen to you, then you have to engineer a situation, where it will.

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
katielou, WRONG!! Pain, or discomfort will send an aggressive dog, ever onwards, and will only serve to make matters worse. Such dogs can be difficult to deal with, but spiked collars are not the answer. In a similar vein, there should be no place for haltis in the training of a dog. To teach a dog to walk to heal, they should FIRST learn OFF the lead. They will have previously learnt what a lead is, that I accept, but aids, the physical type, will teach a dog nothing. The dog must learn to walk at your side, before the lead is applied.

A previous post mentioned a change of direction when teaching heel walking, absolutely right. Progress will be made with a dog when you have two things in place; firstly that it wants to please you, and secondly, and when you have that in place, then the dog LOOKS at you. It's vital.

Severe collars for dogs, are rather like severe bits for horses, they should only be used by the most experienced, and I've yet to resort to either.

Any attachment can be put on a dog, but if it doesn't want to listen to you, then you have to engineer a situation, where it will.

Alec.
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I'm not talking about making a dog walk to hell.

I'm not going to argue with you because you have obviously never seen one used well.

So move on.
 
I have never used one, but would have no hesitation if I needed to, I have and do use choke chains, please think past your normal bad mannered pulling PET and think of a potentially dangerous dog you have to work with in order to keep them out of a yellow bag, the aggressive dogs I have worked with one of the hardest being a dog de bordeaux x staff poss pit built like a machine kept in a pound after being picked up from the streets (looking like he had been used for fighting on inspection of his wounds) and wanting to kill anything in site and had been to 5 behaviourists and trainers, I took him after seeing him and being pressured, I never should have taken him but by the buy Im thankful I did, no doubt he felt discomfort in my reprimands but it did not make him worse, it made him into a highly sociable dog that could be rehomed into a household with another dog (this task was demmed impossible) he now mixes daily on his dog walks off lead with 8 other dogs and will gladly ignore a passing strange dog, did I get there with treats and hugs NO! I used firm reprimand and a choke chain. no doubt me having alot of dogs helped rehabilitate but so did my firmness and the use of a choke chain, he is now walked on a slip lead, for the sake of 6 weeks of a choke chain and firm reprimand he now has a life a freedom and the best home I could have hoped to place him in and 2 years on he has never lapsed and responds to voice command which I used alone with his training. that dog should have been dead by now.

I have 10 dogs all walk on slip leads non pull and rarely even need to be on lead, do I say "mine PETS dont need this or that, so yours does not" No, because my pets do not have the same issues as others and they have an owner and they are not awaiting a death sentance and they will not kill another pet, as mentioned there is more to such tools than teaching a dog to heel:rolleyes:

All sorts can be abused when not used as they where meant to be inc

Whips (for horses)
Collars
Crates
Haltis
Harnesses
All can cause pain or distress when abused and used wrong, the above sould be used in an experienced hand and as an aid in the correct situation.

Not aimed at OP:p I know you where just asking.
 
To add thay are blunt, I have tried one on my arm, and yes its not the same as neck, but I also have no fur:rolleyes: it did as described, it pinched, I would not describe it as painful and I have nor does nay human the same pain threshold as a dog, I have also used an electric shock collar on my arm and my neck and full setting:p and it made me jump and then laugh, it never hurt, not like stabbing yourself with a needle , thats hurts like a barstweard.
These tools are meant to create a short sharp shock to distraction from fixation as a negative reinforcer and they do not need to be used perminantly, they work effectively enough to work fast and the effects are lasting.
Being whipped with a horse crop is 1000 times worse than the pain of a prong or electric shock collar (of which can not really be described as pain), and leaves a lovely bloody mark.:p
 
CAYLA said:
Being whipped with a horse crop is 1000 times worse than the pain of a prong or electric shock collar (of which can not really be described as pain), and leaves a lovely bloody mark.:p
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Ok, ok, enough about you and your OH's private time...:p
 
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