What scores worse...

[alainax]

Genuine question, don't laugh

If a horse picks up the wrong canter lead, and continues the wrong canter. A very lovely canter in all respects other than its on the wrong leg.

Or...

Picking up the wrong lead, with several failed attempts to correct it.

Would judge rather seen when a wrong lead has been noticed, and it try to be fixed - or a smoother over all picture just on the wrong lead.

I know I know... getting the correct lead would be best, its a long story

 

[Kokopelli]

Technically if you continue on the wrong leg you should get a zero as the canter on that rein was not performed, although I doubt most judges would give a zero especially at lower levels.

If I was in that situation I think I would do my best to correct the strike off, if that completely fails I'd just carry on best I can and work on leads in training/ warm up for next test.

 

[rubydog]

Watching this thread with interest as I have the exact same issue on the left rein with my horse and it's preventing us progressing from intro to prelim tests.

 

[Santa_Claus]

correct lead eventually although honestly a lot will depend on the judge. The movement will read 'canter right' so technically if you did canter left they 'could' give you a zero. Most will mark down the wrong leg but will still give it a mark but they will also mark down if it takes several attempts to get the correct lead. Remember also you won't have the correct bend if cantering on the wrong leg so this will penalise you. So personally go for the correct lead every time as it also instils correct training, although I would probably stick to intro tests until I was happy the horse I was riding would at least 9 times out of 10 strike off correctly. If your horse is struggling to pick up the correct lead there is most likely a good reason why. Often it is a physical reason (often saddle restricting shoulder) which is also worth the thought.

 

[Ferdinase514]

Technically if you continue on the wrong leg you should get a zero as the canter on that rein was not performed, although I doubt most judges would give a zero especially at lower levels.
.

What makes you think it would be a zero??

It is difficult to achieve a zero at all levels as usually some part of the requirement is performed.

If the horse is physically traveling forwards and performing the movement but on the wrong lead it would be a 3 or 4. Most likely a similar mark for repeated and failed attempts to correct the lead. However, it will most likely reflect differently in the rider mark in the collectives if you do not try to correct it.

 

[Ferdinase514]

correct lead eventually although honestly a lot will depend on the judge. The movement will read 'canter right' so technically if you did canter left they 'could' give you a zero. .

They could. But it would be incorrect.

 

[meardsall_millie]

You certainly won't get a zero as that is 'not performed' and if the horse is in canter and demonstrating the movement then it is performing something - just not well! Cantering on the wrong leg, not corrected, would be really be at best insufficient (4) but it depends on how the rest of the movement is performed, eg rhythm, balance, accuracy, etc. Same with several incorrect strike offs - I would struggle to give much more than insufficient.

 

[meardsall_millie]

They could. But it would be incorrect.

 

[alainax]

I guess I should provide a little bit of the back story. Horse is 10, and has spent quite some time in previous hands being allowed to develop one sided. Saddler pointed it out straight away when I first got him that he was not evenly muscled. We have been having lessons once a week with a top dressage trainer, and he has progressed an amazing amount.

It is very much not a simple fix, all the usual methods of getting the strike off won't work, the reason being that he is just so incredibly balanced in the counter canter. We are however getting it, with the emphasis being on keeping his shoulders extremely straight. As any bend to the inside (or outside) will have him picking up the lead on the outside leg ( and not the inside one). We have went from getting it 1 out of 10 time to around 8 out of 10 times when I ask. However, he is also one of those horses who will predict you, and will pop from trot into the most lovely collected counter canter if you so much as think about beginining to prepare the correct steps required for getting the correct lead.

Now, we were planning on sticking to Intro's, until we get the correct lead 100% of the time, however we are going to a 2 day show ( showing on day one, staying over night, then dressage on day two) and I wanted to give two dressage classes a try ( the intro and prelim).

My question was genuinely so I know what to do, should I bring him back to trot, ask again - or just keep going.


Ofc it will all go amazing on the day and we will get the correct lead but just as a musing...

 

[Santa_Claus]

They could. But it would be incorrect.

I know but I have seen it happen more than once and on at least one of the occasions if I remember correctly they were listed they used that reasoning (i was scribing hence I remember ) I agree they shouldn't though But at unaffiliated you never know who the judge will be and I would have a safe bet this will be an unaffiliated competition.

Which would you score higher?

 

[meardsall_millie]

My question was genuinely so I know what to do, should I bring him back to trot, ask again - or just keep going.

Bring him back to trot and ask again.

As Ferdinase says, it will also reflect in your rider mark if you don't but quite apart from that, you should persevere with correct training at this stage (long term gain), even if it spoils your test (for short term pain) - in this instance anyway (and I wouldn't always say that for test riding!).

 

[alainax]

Bring him back to trot and ask again.

As Ferdinase says, it will also reflect in your rider mark if you don't but quite apart from that, you should persevere with correct training at this stage (long term gain), even if it spoils your test (for short term pain) - in this instance anyway (and I wouldn't always say that for test riding!).

That's a good point, just viewing the test as training ( which it technically is) and as I wouldnt allow him to continue on the wrong lead whilst at home schooling I certainly shouldnt whilst being judged.

Interesting that the general consensus is that either continuing or trying to fix it may result in the same kind of marks, in which case I'd much rather try to fix it!

I had just pondered if there was a certain amount of marks dropped for the wrong leg, but a smooth over all picutre, or for every time you break from canter back down to trot to try to resolve.

Thanks for the replies so far!

 

[Pigeon]

They prefer you to correct it! I did this (he's so balanced either way, I thought why not and went with it) and I asked the judge after and she said they need to see a correct depart, so it's better to bring back to trot and ask again. Multiple times if need be xD

 

[spookypony]

Also remember, it's only one mark in a whole test. If that's the only movement he's inconsistent on, just go for it, try to fix it if it goes wrong, and then leave it behind once the movement is over!

 

[popsdosh]

Generally judges are quite fair and sensible I honestly dont think any judge would penalise you more for trying to correct it than carrying on on the wrong leg. If your horse is anticipating your canters I think you need to mix it up a bit in training so he cannot tell whats coming next.

 

[Cragrat]

With my young horse, when he got the incorrect lead, my trainer would not make a fuss, but would encourage him to continue for a few circuits of a 20 m circle on incorrect lead, whilst keeping correct bend. Then back to trot, ask again, 99% of the time he had found cantering on the wrong lead so blinking uncomfortable he would elect for the correct strike off this time. He then got loads of praise! Seems to have worked because he now is quite reliable, and well balanced.

 

[paddi22]

a new horse i got did this. 1st test we stayed in wrong canter and i got a 3 'correct movement not achieved' .
second test trotted, did 2 more attempts and got it on second and scored a four.
third test, 2 attempts to canter and got a four again

 

[TarrSteps]

As my more learned colleagues have said, you're pretty much damned if you do, damned if you don't once it's gone wrong, in terms of marks BUT from a training point of view you should correct. There is also the chance that if you correct smoothly and quickly you will salvage a mark or two but if you canter gaily on then you're not going to redeem the movement.

The only qualifier I might add is if it's REALLY upsetting the horse to make multiple corrections and likely to make for trouble in the next movements, I might just fiddle through until the end of the movement, keeping the peace, and give it up as a bad job. Then I would take the horse home and not come back until I'd fixed the problem.

 

[ann-jen]

My top tip, is, if the canter runs over several marks, eg 1. A canter 20m circle, 2. KEH canter 3. MXK change rein.....make sure you sort the canter on the circle and you have a fair chance of decent marks for movements 2&3 if you are still on the wrong lead going past K you will drop marks for that movement too and again if you've still not corrected it going past M.

 

[Ferdinase514]

As already said, don't stop training the horse in a test. It's an extension of training rather than a performance. So, yes, correct the incorrect strike off

 

[TarrSteps]

My top tip, is, if the canter runs over several marks, eg 1. A canter 20m circle, 2. KEH canter 3. MXK change rein.....make sure you sort the canter on the circle and you have a fair chance of decent marks for movements 2&3 if you are still on the wrong lead going past K you will drop marks for that movement too and again if you've still not corrected it going past M.

This is very good advice and goes to "knowing" your test, not just learning your test.

 

[Farma]

As already said, don't stop training the horse in a test. It's an extension of training rather than a performance. So, yes, correct the incorrect strike off

I agree with this, at the point you are at its all about training, forget the mark and train the horse, I would absolutely correct the canter lead and not worry about my score for the movement x

 

[Laafet]

I saw someone who had this problem last week at a local unaff but with a BD list judge, I had a little nosey at her sheet afterwards, I know a bit norty but was intrigued as to what they were going to score, as horse was super smart warmblood who went to pot, bless him, in the test, walked round corners where they should have been trotting and did not canter at all on one rein. She scored 1 for the canter on that rein, with canter not shown as the comment, I have had incorrect strike off, corrected and go up to a mark of 5, but also got a 5 for doing medium canter on the wrong leg (horse had gone canter, spook, stop, canter and I was so annoyed with him that I kept going regardless of leg as I didn't want to upset the flow of the test!). I think they go easier on you if you look like you are trying to get it right than if you get into canter and just sit there like it isn't wrong!

 

[shadowboy]

Last week I did prelim 7 and we did left lead canter his worst rein and although we had correct lead the canter was poo as I hadn't taken my stick in to back up my leg (pinned due to riding accidident so very week) as the event owner told me I wasn't allowed to ride with a stick- I got 4 laboured canter. Prelim 14 - to avoid the same issue with a laboured canter I over boiled him into the transition so he picked up wrong lead but it was really forward and bend was correct and he was going well so I thought sod it an kept going- got a 3 wrong lead. So in answer the correct lead is better even if it's not a great canter than a nice wrong leg canter as far as I can see.

 

[Ferdinase514]

I saw someone who had this problem last week at a local unaff but with a BD list judge, I had a little nosey at her sheet afterwards, I know a bit norty but was intrigued as to what they were going to score, as horse was super smart warmblood who went to pot, bless him, in the test, walked round corners where they should have been trotting and did not canter at all on one rein. She scored 1 for the canter on that rein, with canter not shown as the comment, I have had incorrect strike off, corrected and go up to a mark of 5, but also got a 5 for doing medium canter on the wrong leg (horse had gone canter, spook, stop, canter and I was so annoyed with him that I kept going regardless of leg as I didn't want to upset the flow of the test!). I think they go easier on you if you look like you are trying to get it right than if you get into canter and just sit there like it isn't wrong!

I just need to be clear that it is never about "going easier" but about the full context. There are other factors the just an incorrect strike off - the length of the movement and other requirements in it being part of the overall score. You will see a variation in scores because of this. As someone has already said it will generally score less than sufficient but the actual score from 1-5 can vary depending on correction of error etc

 

[soulfull]

I have done a fair bit of writing for both affiliate and unaffil

Only a couple of weeks ago affiliated judge at unaffil event have a very young rider '0' for wrong lead all the way through. She said if she had even shown a few correct strides she would have given her 5. If she's attempted to change and failed would have given 3.

 

[Dunlin]

Just looked back through my old dressage score sheets (unaff) as I had a horse who was very excitable and always anticipated the canter and would always strike off on the wrong leg.

Picking one novice test I had the wrong canter lead the whole way through the first canter and was scored 2, comments are; "wrong lead, did not correct, boisterous". The truth was he was tossing his head in the air and at times if you tried to correct him when he was like this he would try and get you off so I just sat quietly.

Second canter (I can't remember) but looks like I had to correct him several times, scored 5, comments are; "antic. canter with wrong lead, corrected sv. times".

General comments at the bottom say; "strong horse but positively ridden, knows test, have a break". Comments were spot on, he was bored and came back 4 months later much happier. Hope that helps, I know that judges do take into account a tricky horse.

 

[humblepie]

Yes to the bringing back and trying again but if horse gets worried or upset just then stay in trot. Use it as a training exercise and don't worry about the score for that mark and enjoy it.

 

[ester]

I would also ask a couple more times but if that didn't work stay in trot so that the horse doesn't learn it is ok to stay on the wrong lead/get more tense being asked for canter more times.