What should the maximum number of dogs that a professional dog walker should be responsible for at one time be?

[maisie06]

I have 3 dogs , all spaniels. The older 2 get excersised together but the pup i=has his own time, I don't want him learning to free hunt. In public I would only take 2, but luckily we have access to private land, we also make use of the secure paddocks locally, I'm not worried about my own dogs but locally there's some utter numpties with out of control dogs who I really don't want to have to deal with.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

I agree that dog walkers should be licensed by the LA and licences should be revoked if there are any instances where the dogwarden is police have to get involved. I think a maximum of 4 dogs is realistic.
However it still needs the walker to exercise commonsense. I used to walk the Rottweilers as a pair, on my own when they were young but as they grew to weigh more together than I do, I decided that for safety one dog to one person was enough. A Rottweiler breeder near us also has stopped walking more than 1 dog per person.

They’re big strong dogs so a sensible approach. In the “irresponsible dog owner” thread I posted of one local woman who has to tie her Rottweiler to a tree or fence post whenever I’ve met her out riding. Presumably she can’t hang onto it without doing so. Hopefully I never come across her when there isn’t anything to tie it to.

 

[Moobli]

Not all pro dog walkers are irresponsible though. I know at least four personally who I would trust - maybe not with my own dogs as I don’t trust anyone except my hubby with them ? - but who I would trust if I had an easier breed if that makes sense. They are all experienced dog people including two who are dog trainers as well as pro walkers and who take their responsibilities very seriously, never allow their dogs to hassle others etc.

Beverley Cuddy’s post is well written I think.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...E3pubxtHuw5QAuzDUgHKNF1hQVo6kgzl&id=526208880
“The tragic accident involving the dog walker has been in my thoughts a lot. The media have moved on to the poor young girls shot in London in a drive-by shooting. The news cycle is relentless.
How many people drift into dog walking imagining it to be an easy way to make some money? Something that gets you outdoors that you don't need any training for.
I guess it looks easy if you've not got a dog.
Walking other people's dogs is I think the most stressful thing imaginable. Like taking a bunch of young school children on a skiing trip - my junior school did it, I think my teachers were absolutely crazy.
Those who do dog walking really well should be easier to spot. Would you ever give someone your keys and say do come into my home and take my human baby away for a few hours and drop them back later?
There should be standards.
Linda Ward is there any way the general public can spot the difference between someone like yourself and one of the blow-ins? How can others spot the good guys? Is there an umbrella group with adequate standards?
We live in an age where you can register online to be a dog walker/sitter in your area with minimal fuss, how can we make sure that those people keep themselves and the dogs they walk as safe as possible?
There will have been a succession of factors that led to this recent tragedy, but being a professional dog walker ISN'T the walk in the park people might imagine it to be.
There are people who only got a dog because they expected to be reliant on dog walkers and sitters, this story will have spooked them.
The description from the horseback witness saying the poor woman was on the floor urging them to leave her to it just so sad. Could anyone have helped or was the presence of horses just making some of the dogs more hyped?
There was also a rescue Malinois lost and luckily found in the area a day or so before this - the lost dog notice said it had got away from the dog's walker.
I admit I suffer from anxiety, can always see danger at every turn. My list for house sitters is as a result hugely demanding. I've had a dog lost in someone else's professional care so I have heightened awareness of risk. It always shocks me when others are much more cavalier. I live a diminished life because of it and most of the time thankfully the worst doesn't happen.
But those who walk dogs carefully and well must be alarmed at the invasion of those who take on too much risk.”

 

[paddy555]

For me I'm afraid it would be 2 dogs max, (for everyone not just paid dog walkers) both on leads and some breeds I am also afraid muzzled. Also a ban on mobile phones. You need to look at your dog not your screen that way you can anticipate what is going to happen.
Two doesn't sound very many but it is not how many dogs a person can hold but of the potential danger they can do if something goes wrong and they have to let go.

 

[bonny]

For me I'm afraid it would be 2 dogs max, (for everyone not just paid dog walkers) both on leads and some breeds I am also afraid muzzled. Also a ban on mobile phones. You need to look at your dog not your screen that way you can anticipate what is going to happen.
Two doesn't sound very many but it is not how many dogs a person can hold but of the potential danger they can do if something goes wrong and they have to let go.

Thankfully no one has put you in charge of the rest of us!

 

[maya2008]

When I was a child, the dangerous dogs were guard dogs at houses or business premises. They were not pets and were not walked as such around other people and their dogs. If you met someone out walking, usually dogs went on leads and that was that. No one spent their lives walking around with treat pouches either. There was obviously the odd person, but that’s life.

Now, in the large town where I used to live, it’s treat pouches all the way, along with off lead dogs out of control, dog walkers walking what seems like a million dogs at once, and multiple reports of dogs savaging sheep and chasing other livestock on the edges of town.

Where I live now, it’s much more rural and it’s like going back in time. I saw someone with a treat pouch the other day and it struck me as odd, because I so rarely see them. Most dogs I meet work - a lot are gundogs. The pet dogs are often walked on lead, and if not are put back on lead when they see someone coming. As a result, my ponies are calm and chilled - they sense no threat because the humans are competent and all is good. No idea where the dog walkers go, presumably easier terrain than we hack on.

So my conclusion with the whole thing is it’s partly the very fluffy modern pet training that is fine in a pet situation with a dog or two, on lead or in a low distraction situation. Pop those dogs in a pack, with a not very dominant personality of human, and it’s the perfect storm. They listen to the dog they see as the leader, not the human who is simply the provider of nice snacks.

 

[paddy555]

Thankfully no one has put you in charge of the rest of us!

I'm sorry you feel like that. For my part I am simply totally fed up with loose walker's dogs chasing my horses when I am riding, I was especially pissed off with the one that allowed their staffie's teeth to become locked around the horse's hind leg and then they were unable to open them. Fed up with walkers on cycle/walking tracks allowing their dogs to run straight across me as they barely look up from their screens, fed up with same walkers allowing their dogs to latch onto my jeans or my leg. Fed up with taking my large dog out double leaded and made to sit at the very edge of a path, pavement or track whilst a walker lets their small dog run up to him with the words "my dog likes big dogs?
That makes a change from the walkers telling me, when their dog is underneath my horse,"my dog likes horses"

I'm afraid I am totally fed up with a large number of people with their dogs out of control in public places. If you want a dog adopt some responsibility for it. I don't want your dog, please keep it away from me and my animals.

ETA and to add to the moan fed up with retractable leads. For heaven's sake put it in a proper lead not running around and across everyone.

 

[bonny]

I'm sorry you feel like that. For my part I am simply totally fed up with loose walker's dogs chasing my horses when I am riding, I was especially pissed off with the one that allowed their staffie's teeth to become locked around the horse's hind leg and then they were unable to open them. Fed up with walkers on cycle/walking tracks allowing their dogs to run straight across me as they barely look up from their screens, fed up with same walkers allowing their dogs to latch onto my jeans or my leg. Fed up with taking my large dog out double leaded and made to sit at the very edge of a path, pavement or track whilst a walker lets their small dog run up to him with the words "my dog likes big dogs?
That makes a change from the walkers telling me, when their dog is underneath my horse,"my dog likes horses"

I'm afraid I am totally fed up with a large number of people with their dogs out of control in public places. If you want a dog adopt some responsibility for it. I don't want your dog, please keep it away from me and my animals.

I think a lot of the problem is there is just too many dogs. There were too many pre covid and then we added another three million into the mix. Everywhere is busy, too many people, cars, dogs, bikes, runners.....take your pick, everyone is being annoyed by someone else.

 

[maya2008]

I'm sorry you feel like that. For my part I am simply totally fed up with loose walker's dogs chasing my horses when I am riding, I was especially pissed off with the one that allowed their staffie's teeth to become locked around the horse's hind leg and then they were unable to open them. Fed up with walkers on cycle/walking tracks allowing their dogs to run straight across me as they barely look up from their screens, fed up with same walkers allowing their dogs to latch onto my jeans or my leg. Fed up with taking my large dog out double leaded and made to sit at the very edge of a path, pavement or track whilst a walker lets their small dog run up to him with the words "my dog likes big dogs?
That makes a change from the walkers telling me, when their dog is underneath my horse,"my dog likes horses"

I'm afraid I am totally fed up with a large number of people with their dogs out of control in public places. If you want a dog adopt some responsibility for it. I don't want your dog, please keep it away from me and my animals.

ETA and to add to the moan fed up with retractable leads. For heaven's sake put it in a proper lead not running around and across everyone.

Helmet cam. Report to Police. And repeat. All you have to say is that the behaviour of the dog makes you feel threatened and it counts as out of control and they can act.

 

[Dexter]

So my conclusion with the whole thing is it’s partly the very fluffy modern pet training that is fine in a pet situation with a dog or two, on lead or in a low distraction situation. Pop those dogs in a pack, with a not very dominant personality of human, and it’s the perfect storm. They listen to the dog they see as the leader, not the human who is simply the provider of nice snacks.

Tell me you don't know how to train a dog, without telling me you don't know how to train a dog

 

[twiggy2]

It all makes me wonder if the majority of the problems are caused by a lack of 'pack', allowing dogs to establish who is who by repeatedly spending time in the same social groups. Or not having to spend time with other dogs at all.
Do we ask too much of dogs when we expect them to socialise with different dogs every day of the week without any scuffles?
Our pack is very balanced we thought we may have issues when the oldest most dominant (he could be a bully) dog in the pack passed away earlier this year but the most submissive dog has stepped up and keeps the other 2 uncastrated males in line, one of the bitches is truly boss but never has to promote herself or put others in line as everyone is happy with how things are, we can introduce puppies and young dogs with no issue (they collies find puppies boring and maz the lurcher loves them) we can also add we behaved adult dogs and there is no big issues in of the nervous bitches can be shouty at then but no aggression the rest pretty much ignore them, it's rare we add an adult dog though.
Dogs are often off lead and expected to get on with everyone they meet, we have dogs in the pack that are not fond of each other but they just stay out of each others way and re allowed to do so, any issues get addressed with with sharp 'hey' but they are rare as it is usually my little bitch telling others to go away from me as apparently I am hers.
I haven't heard of anyone being attacked by a hound pack and they are big numbers and large strong dogs, fights and deaths amongst the dogs I have heard of but not aimed at humans.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Helmet cam. Report to Police. And repeat. All you have to say is that the behaviour of the dog makes you feel threatened and it counts as out of control and they can act.

Or a body cam.

I wont wear a head cam, not having got a friend in Addenbrooke's who crashed off her horse before Christmas when it was being attacked by a dog, smacked her head and the camera deflected her head to a horrible angle, causing brain damage.

 

[maya2008]

Tell me you don't know how to train a dog, without telling me you don't know how to train a dog

My dog is safe to be around and is respectful of us while also being my husband’s devoted companion. So was my parents’ previous biter once he had spent a summer with me. My friend has a pack of six and they behave beautifully. Neither she nor I use treats beyond basic puppy stuff; neither do we hurt them if you are thinking that. My JRT rules my friend’s pack when she is with them - all vastly bigger than her, and she has never given them a treat or hurt them - there’s more to life than some can see, and fashion isn’t always the answer.

So maybe I don’t train the way you understand it, maybe I just explain their place in the ‘pack’ to them and train for the basic commands within an expectation of being obeyed. If the end result is a happy, reliable dog who will move over when I sit down without going to bite, is confident in her own skin and in her place in the world, has never exhibited separation anxiety or chewing (beyond pup stuff), is fully toilet trained (and I feel I need to say that following so many fb posts I have seen) and will toddle behind us through a field of rabbits without giving a care in the world, who cares? I was taught a different way. It works.

Doesn’t mean that dog isn’t loved or praised, just that they value our approval and praise above all else; that they obey because they respect their human and will follow their lead. My garden isn’t fenced but my dog doesn’t run off, we are her pack, I am the boss, she feels safe with us and part of that is that she knows what is expected of her. Can’t be that different to the dogs I see out and about - they come because they are expected to, they sit and stay without treats, their owners can chat with us completely relaxed knowing their dogs will wait politely. That matches what I was taught.

Different is only wrong if it is cruel or if it doesn’t work.

 

[marmalade76]

My dog is safe to be around and is respectful of us while also being my husband’s devoted companion. So was my parents’ previous biter once he had spent a summer with me. My friend has a pack of six and they behave beautifully. Neither she nor I use treats beyond basic puppy stuff; neither do we hurt them if you are thinking that. My JRT rules my friend’s pack when she is with them - all vastly bigger than her, and she has never given them a treat or hurt them - there’s more to life than some can see, and fashion isn’t always the answer.

So maybe I don’t train the way you understand it, maybe I just explain their place in the ‘pack’ to them and train for the basic commands within an expectation of being obeyed. If the end result is a happy, reliable dog who will move over when I sit down without going to bite, is confident in her own skin and in her place in the world, has never exhibited separation anxiety or chewing (beyond pup stuff), is fully toilet trained (and I feel I need to say that following so many fb posts I have seen) and will toddle behind us through a field of rabbits without giving a care in the world, who cares? I was taught a different way. It works.

Doesn’t mean that dog isn’t loved or praised, just that they value our approval and praise above all else; that they obey because they respect their human and will follow their lead. My garden isn’t fenced but my dog doesn’t run off, we are her pack, I am the boss, she feels safe with us and part of that is that she knows what is expected of her. Can’t be that different to the dogs I see out and about - they come because they are expected to, they sit and stay without treats, their owners can chat with us completely relaxed knowing their dogs will wait politely. That matches what I was taught.

Different is only wrong if it is cruel or if it doesn’t work.

I never treat my dog either, she still does as she's told, she lives to please me, not to get treats. I'm bit too generous when it comes to horse treats, though ?

 

[paddy555]

It all makes me wonder if the majority of the problems are caused by a lack of 'pack', allowing dogs to establish who is who by repeatedly spending time in the same social groups. Or not having to spend time with other dogs at all.
Do we ask too much of dogs when we expect them to socialise with different dogs every day of the week without any scuffles?
.

I cycle down a popular cycle track from the middle of Dartmoor to Plymouth. There are endless dogs. Also endless huskies/malamute types.
I can guarantee, (after years of going up and down that track) that all huskies, GSDs, belgians, rotties and similar will be single dogs, on leads and walking by the side of their owners. If they meet another walker with a dog they just keep walking past.
The problems are a large percentage of t he loose dogs and as you get nearer to the outskirts of Plymouth you then move into a different category, people either on their phones or more likely chatting to their friends and ignoring their dogs, dogs running loose everywhere.
I can't see it to do with packing, the dogs are not fighting, but mostly to people not looking out for others and keeping their dogs under control.

If lack of pack is the answer then as many seem unable to control a couple of dogs heaven help the rest of us if they have a pack of them. To my mind it seems to be simply too many dogs, all loose and basically a people lack of care problem.
We don't have a dog problem, we have a people problem.

 

[twiggy2]

I cycle down a popular cycle track from the middle of Dartmoor to Plymouth. There are endless dogs. Also endless huskies/malamute types.
I can guarantee, (after years of going up and down that track) that all huskies, GSDs, belgians, rotties and similar will be single dogs, on leads and walking by the side of their owners. If they meet another walker with a dog they just keep walking past.
The problems are a large percentage of t he loose dogs and as you get nearer to the outskirts of Plymouth you then move into a different category, people either on their phones or more likely chatting to their friends and ignoring their dogs, dogs running loose everywhere.
I can't see it to do with packing, the dogs are not fighting, but mostly to people not looking out for others and keeping their dogs under control.

If lack of pack is the answer then as many seem unable to control a couple of dogs heaven help the rest of us if they have a pack of them. To my mind it seems to be simply too many dogs, all loose and basically a people lack of care problem.
We don't have a dog problem, we have a people problem.

Oh goodness no I wasn't meaning give everyone a pack, just that maybe some of the issues are caused by dogs being kept unnaturally I suppose, I didn't explain it very well

 

[CorvusCorax]

I'm not sure I could be considered fluffy, but I do reward my dogs for good behaviour with food/toys/play, not always just 'because I told you to', it keeps them happy and motivated. Dogs only do what is in their best interest.
What is missing among a lot of pet dog owners is the compliance element, 'you must/must not' but IME it has to be balanced with motivation/reward or else you just get a dog that does everything and looks flat or a dog that picks and chooses when it does what it is told.

 

[paddy555]

Oh goodness no I wasn't meaning give everyone a pack,

thank goodness for that. Panic over

 

[skinnydipper]

So maybe I don’t train the way you understand it, maybe I just explain their place in the ‘pack’ to them

Could you expand on that please.

 

[SEL]

I'm sorry you feel like that. For my part I am simply totally fed up with loose walker's dogs chasing my horses when I am riding, I was especially pissed off with the one that allowed their staffie's teeth to become locked around the horse's hind leg and then they were unable to open them. Fed up with walkers on cycle/walking tracks allowing their dogs to run straight across me as they barely look up from their screens, fed up with same walkers allowing their dogs to latch onto my jeans or my leg. Fed up with taking my large dog out double leaded and made to sit at the very edge of a path, pavement or track whilst a walker lets their small dog run up to him with the words "my dog likes big dogs?
That makes a change from the walkers telling me, when their dog is underneath my horse,"my dog likes horses"

I'm afraid I am totally fed up with a large number of people with their dogs out of control in public places. If you want a dog adopt some responsibility for it. I don't want your dog, please keep it away from me and my animals.

ETA and to add to the moan fed up with retractable leads. For heaven's sake put it in a proper lead not running around and across everyone.

Well I don't have a dog to take out but I agree with everything else that you are fed up with!

 

[monte1]

I have three dogs of my own, 1 lab a cocker and springer, all gundog breeds, they are all well behaved and do have good recall off lead, but i still keep my eyes open and don't just let them roam out of sight as you never know what and who is around a corner, or gateway, it is just common sense in my opinion. i also feel grateful to be able to take my dogs up to the yard and walk them there so don't want to jeopardise that.
Mine know how to behave around my horses and we also have sheep at the yard where they are kept and my dogs are not at all reactive to them either (probably due to being around them all since pups) but i would still not let them free run if sheep are in a field i would usually walk through.

 

[Dexter]

My dog is safe to be around and is respectful of us while also being my husband’s devoted companion. So was my parents’ previous biter once he had spent a summer with me. My friend has a pack of six and they behave beautifully. Neither she nor I use treats beyond basic puppy stuff; neither do we hurt them if you are thinking that. My JRT rules my friend’s pack when she is with them - all vastly bigger than her, and she has never given them a treat or hurt them - there’s more to life than some can see, and fashion isn’t always the answer.

So maybe I don’t train the way you understand it, maybe I just explain their place in the ‘pack’ to them and train for the basic commands within an expectation of being obeyed. If the end result is a happy, reliable dog who will move over when I sit down without going to bite, is confident in her own skin and in her place in the world, has never exhibited separation anxiety or chewing (beyond pup stuff), is fully toilet trained (and I feel I need to say that following so many fb posts I have seen) and will toddle behind us through a field of rabbits without giving a care in the world, who cares? I was taught a different way. It works.

Doesn’t mean that dog isn’t loved or praised, just that they value our approval and praise above all else; that they obey because they respect their human and will follow their lead. My garden isn’t fenced but my dog doesn’t run off, we are her pack, I am the boss, she feels safe with us and part of that is that she knows what is expected of her. Can’t be that different to the dogs I see out and about - they come because they are expected to, they sit and stay without treats, their owners can chat with us completely relaxed knowing their dogs will wait politely. That matches what I was taught.

Different is only wrong if it is cruel or if it doesn’t work.

The second you start talking about dominance and packs it is wrong. Its been scientifically proven to be wrong.

 

[paddy555]

The second you start talking about dominance and packs it is wrong. Its been scientifically proven to be wrong.

I don't really get this. Can you explain a little more please. So if you have a pack of dogs( or horses) are you saying that there is no pecking order and none of them are dominant over another dog (or horse)

 

[CorvusCorax]

I believe dogs operate a hierarchy, I don't believe they think that humans are dogs too.
I believe dogs need good leadership but there's a difference between a good motivational boss and a boss who just acts like a prick and flogs you to death.

A truly dominant dog barely takes others under his notice. They're not that important.

 

[cauda equina]

Radio 4 has just had an interview with a Professional Dog Man (apparently trained over 200 dogs, I missed what for) who said 2 dogs maximum - 'You need to be able to control them when things go wrong'
Can't argue with that!

 

[malwhit]

Radio 4 has just had an interview with a Professional Dog Man (apparently trained over 200 dogs, I missed what for) who said 2 dogs maximum - 'You need to be able to control them when things go wrong'
Can't argue with that!

Graham who has a dog training show on Channel 5 is a professional, but I wouldn't let him anywhere near my dogs?

 

[SilverLinings]

The people over the road from me have a dog walker collect their dog late morning when they are at work and then it's brought back about an hour later. It always grates with me that she just opens the front door and lets the dog run to the van (parked on the road) rather than put a lead on it. Surely the 10 seconds it would take to put a lead on would be easier than having to explain what happened to the owners if the dog got hit by a car?

I am on leave today so was gardening when the dog walker arrived at 11am and got a good view . She drives a branded van and advertises widely locally so presumably would class herself as a 'professional' dog walker. Today she was wearing her pyjamas and large fluffy slippers when she got out of the van, which didn't look very professional but more importantly I struggled to believe that she was really going to take the dogs for a lovely walk in their allotted hour dressed like that. We are rural so everywhere around here is wet and muddy (and a lot of it actually flooded), including the roads, and there are no surfaced paths to go for a walk. I assume she had wellies in the van and was going to change into them, but it did make me wonder whether her clients are getting what they pay for.

 

[cauda equina]

Graham who has a dog training show on Channel 5 is a professional, but I wouldn't let him anywhere near my dogs?

Oh ok! I still agree with him on this

 

[Backtoblack]

Four

 

[AmyMay]

The second you start talking about dominance and packs it is wrong. Its been scientifically proven to be wrong.

I actually think dogs do see us as part of the pack, scientifically disproven or not.