What to do? Loose dogs out hacking

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Little Fat Pony

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Hi,

Hope this makes sense. The places I hack are very "doggy" areas, and my horse is usually fine with dogs, he has never hurt one, but sometimes if one barks at him he will start to jog slightly, but this has never been a problem as he soon settles.

Within the last week I have come across the same dog three times, and each time its becoming progressively worse. The dog is a border collie, and off the lead, the owner - a girl aged around 15 - just lets the dog run wherever.

The first time the collie was just sprinting circles around my horse, so I just halted and eventually the collie stopped and we walked on, then the owner saw me, so she called her dog back and I thanked her, and carried on in the opposite direction to them.

The second time the owner wasn't insight, and the collie was almost racing my horse, running past him, turning around running past again etc. I carried on walking slowly, although my horse was trying to jog and 10 minutes later the owner called the dog back and we continued.

Tonight was the third time, it was the same as last time, except this time the dog tried to bite my horses heel, but he span around. The owner was calling her dog, but she was still trying to nip my horses legs. My horse was very good throughout this, spinning slowly, to prevent the dog biting, but nothing else. Owner eventually got dog, shouted "sorry" and carried on walking. I turned around, and started to head home because I had planned to go the way she was going, but because of this incident decided not too. On the way back we encountered a greyhound how barked at my horse constantly, normally this wouldn't be too much of an issue but I knew something wasn't right so I hopped off and my horse reared up twice. He then came straight back down, and walked home as his well behaved self.

I'm now worried that my horse will be scared of dogs, and I'm worried that when I go to hack him out tomorrow we'll have a few issues where the incidents took place. I have to hack out on my own, as noone at my yard hacks out during the week.

Also, what should I do with regards to the collie? I can't imagine the situation getting better, only worse.

Thanks, I would really appreciate your help...
 
I imagine your horse reared up because he'd got himself wound up and was being a bit of a prat.

As for the collie - one good wallop should sort it, plus strong words with the owner.
 
Collie is only doing what comes naturally, but what I would do is carry a schooling whip whilst out hacking and tap the dog if it comes anywhere near your horse. If the the owner comments about this you are just as much protecting her dog from being kicked and your horse from being bitten.

Otherwise, carry on hacking past these 2 dogs he will get use to it :)
 
Thanks amymay, I agree, he is the sort that gets wound up and then just needs to release.

What kind of thing would I say to the owner? I'm nervous of being confrontational, but equally feel that I have to say something now, just not quite sure how.
 
If a dog is in a public place it must be under control at all times. This includes public parks, higways/roads and public rights of way.

The ideal situation would be to calmly tell the girl to keep the dog on a lead. Also if possible find out were the owners of the dogs live.

I would also report the incident to the police and also the local dog warden.

I had a serious incident where my horse was seriously attacked by a couple of dogs that came running out of a farm yard, attacked my horse on a public road and brought her down on to the road. She suffered serious injuries which required long term veterinary care.

What really annoyed me was that other local horse riders had had problems with these dogs but never bothered to do anything about it.

I reported the incident to the police and dog warden and they each went to see the farmer concerned and warned him that if there was another incident the dogs would be put down and he would be put infront of the local magistrate. They also told him that the dogs must be securely contained within his farm yard at all times.
 
debsey1 said:
Collie is only doing what comes naturally, but what I would do is carry a schooling whip whilst out hacking and tap the dog if it comes anywhere near your horse. If the the owner comments about this you are just as much protecting her dog from being kicked and your horse from being bitten.

Otherwise, carry on hacking past these 2 dogs he will get use to it :)
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Thanks, I have no problem with the dog, just wish the owner would keep her under control. I don't think I'll be able to tap the dog, I always carry a schooling whip but my horse is fairly big, I doubt the whip would go past his knees unless I leant over his shoulder?
 
Gosh where are u as it sounds like the dog we have to contend with here...altho there are two of them.

I didnt broach the owner til the third problematic time and she told me her dogs have the right to roam free. I replied calmly that by law they dont actually.

Hmmm definitely a schooling whip needed and firm words! Sadly it will probably come back on u :(

good luck stay calm.
 
^ this. [Oops,,,I posted after AmyMay...^ refers to Amymays comment!]

I've had two incidences with problem dogs out hacking. First one was a bull type breed and ended up giving the pony some nasty injuries as it latched onto his neck before the riding getting decked on the road and tried to turn on the people after in attempts to get it off the pony.

Second was earlier this year with two Alsations. I made the mistake of running away that time to outrun him [we'd been cantering anyway and dog started chasing us, I spun and went, which was the stupidest thing to do, but just kept running out of reach till it tired, then jumped off mid trot, it went for the mare and she half kicked at it in warning but didn't connect, it came at her a second time to bite her and whacked it across the nose with my stick. Didn't do it again.

Found the owner a few weeks later and let rip. Dogs are finally now walked on leads down the field.

I don't care who's dog it is, I won't tolerate any aggressive dogs out riding. I would at least holler at that dog so it doesn't want to go near you again, though if it's collie, I find they're particularly hard to get out of that circling 'herding' and nipping sheep mode they go into. And I would be fuming at the owner for the amount of times this has happened now. [Providing you're not on a footpath!]
 
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Are you hacking out at the same times each day ?.........try a different time if possible then maybe you won,t meet the collie.Are you wearing plenty of hi vis........then dog owners can see you and can call their dogs back, before they get too close.Would it help to push your horse on in trot and get past dogs quicker and keep his mind occupied and not concentrating too much on the dogs ...................I also would not be afraid to ask owners to put their dogs back on a lead till you are out of sight, you could say they have a tendency to kick and may injure the dog:D
 
ChristmasSparkles said:
I don't care who's dog it is, I won't tolerate any aggressive dogs out riding. I would at least holler at that dog so it doesn't want to go near you again, though if it's collie, I find they're particularly hard to get out of that circling 'herding' and nipping sheep mode they go into. And I would be fuming at the owner for the amount of times this has happened now. [Providing you're not on a footpath!]
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The place where the incidents keep happening are at a place where a footpath and bridlepath cross, it's hard to explain, but basically the bridlepath goes up hill, whereas the footpath stays at a lower level, but there are a lot of steps, which people and dogs can use as a circular loop. The owner lets the dog off on the footpath, and it runs around the loop about 5 times in the same amount of time she gets to the end of the footpath. If that makes any sense at all ... it's hard to describe. :)

wildflower said:
Are you hacking out at the same times each day ?.........try a different time if possible then maybe you won,t meet the collie.Are you wearing plenty of hi vis........then dog owners can see you and can call their dogs back, before they get too close.Would it help to push your horse on in trot and get past dogs quicker and keep his mind occupied and not concentrating too much on the dogs ...................I also would not be afraid to ask owners to put their dogs back on a lead till you are out of sight, you could say they have a tendency to kick and may injure the dog:D
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Unfortunately I have to hack out at the same time, because it's when I finish college, but it's also the same time the girl finishes school. Always where lots of hi vis. I think if I asked my horse to trot the dog would only chase more.

I've read my post back and would just like to say, I'm not blaming the dog, because she is only following her instincts, and equally I'm not blaming the owner. Each time she has tried to get her dog back under control and always apoligises. I think I might try and talk to her and just let her know how it's making my horse react, she might not realise there is an issue.
 
Little Fat Pony said:
The place where the incidents keep happening are at a place where a footpath and bridlepath cross, it's hard to explain, but basically the bridlepath goes up hill, whereas the footpath stays at a lower level, but there are a lot of steps, which people and dogs can use as a circular loop. The owner lets the dog off on the footpath, and it runs around the loop about 5 times in the same amount of time she gets to the end of the footpath. If that makes any sense at all ... it's hard to describe. :)
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Ah, I just meant providing you weren't on the footpath [which I know you shouldn't be anyway, but just to check so there wasn't any arguement comeback on you if that makes sense!]

Doesn't matter where the dog is, as it should be under control, especially if it not reliable around horses, which it has proved to the owner multiple times now. If she knows it is by a bridleway and likely to cause problems, then it needs to be kept on a lead till a safer place.
 
OWLIE185 said:
The ideal situation would be to calmly tell the girl to keep the dog on a lead. Also if possible find out were the owners of the dogs live.

I would also report the incident to the police and also the local dog warden.
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bit extreme in my opinion, the dog sounds well behaved and not aggressive , just following his natural instincts as a collie. if she is walking dog on foot path not bridle path she has every right to let dog off lead unless its aggressive/ out of control.
Police would not do anything, no-one was hurt.

Op, I would carry a schooling whip to flick at the dog if he comes near again, if owner says anything say you are concerned in case the dog gets kicked
 
Thank you for all your advice :)

Does anyone have any tips to try and keep my horse calm, if the dog is running past? Obviously I'm going to try and avoid the situation, but if it does arise again I'd like to be more prepared than I have been :)
 
Also, I've downloaded the "Dogs and Horses" leaflet from the Horse Accidents website... If I print it off and stick it on the gate in my field (where lots of dog walkers say hello to the horses) and on the gate on the bridlepath would I be admitting liability if anything does go wrong? :)
 
The BHS asks that you report incidents with dogs along with traffic accidents and others. I think it's the link in the previous post.

Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to confront any dog owner who allows a dog to harass a horse. It's putting you, the horse, AND the dog in real danger, and could even cause a road accident if your horse shied or bolted on the road. I'd be polite...initially..and emphasise the danger to the dog!
 
I would carry a hunting whip - and use it, if I had to.


Uncontrolled dogs are a royal pain in the backside and a liability to everyone including themselves.
 
Chase the dog. Not at flat out gallop, most shift if you just march towards them, or even trot. Two purposes- firstly, the horse is seeing off the threat, rather than fleeing, so horse doesn't end up nervous. Secondly, the dog will always move. Even a pair of wolves hunting will back off from a head on confrontation (which is why they hunt in packs), so even a pair of aggressive dogs intent on attack will shift if you canter at them. But like I say, the average dog will shift if you walk at it.
Speak to the owner & ask nicely. However if owner persists (or is an ignorant so & so who makes no attempt to get dog under control) do exactly the same to the owner with your horse. I'm not suggesting chasing the owner, but just walking your horse as close as possible whilst muttering 'its ok he's fine with people, just wants to say hello, slow down dobbin' etc.
 
All you have to say to the dog owner op is that if the dog continues to try and bite your horse it will get kicked and hurt (or worse). Please can she keep it on a lead.
 
Take your horse hunting! That'll get it used to being around dogs.

My horses are all used to dogs as my dogs are always wandering around the fields or chasing something or other. I meet dogs a lot when I'm out and about as I live in farming country so every farm I ride past the farm dogs come yapping out at me. They sometimes trot alongside me for a while and if they don't go home after I've told them to then I turn the horse around and trot after them and shoo them home. That usually does the trick.
 
I think once the dog actually nips, thats the point I would be losing my temper. The dog would be getting a flick with a schooling whip, and the owner would be getting the roasting of a lifetime.
Turning your horse to face the dog and then briskly trotting at it, is normally enough to send it packing.
The ones that REALLY irk me are the ones that say "he is only playing"......yup, carry on and he can play with my schooling whip.....
 
OK - most of what has been said is good advice....

if you are being attacked/chased by a dog get the horse to stand if poss, face the dog, make eye contact and growl at it...

DO NOT attempt to outrun it - you won't be able to and the situation will quickly escalate

if you see an owner and unleashed dog ahead of you MAKE SURE they have seen you - shout 'Hello' if necessary
and ALWAYS thank people for calling their dogs back, putting them on a lead, when they see you approaching

all dogs MUST be under control and/or on a lead at all times in public places BY LAW -
where/when necessary/appropriate state this to the owner - and point out that THEY are legally liable for any damage/injury etc caused
(so the farmer in the incident mentioned by one of the posters was liable to pay for all the vet bills)

UNFORTUNATELY many dog owners are 'unaware' of the above and will get quite abusive
(and amazingly I find some horsey dog owners are the worst offenders)

I had one consistent offender I had to deal with who insisted I was not allowed to ride on that path (even though I always explained politely, the actual position and referred him to the relevant landowner - the FC - if he would like to check...)

his collie would lunge at the horses heels as it went past, he knew it would, he made no effort whatsoever to control it, never apologised and would THEN have 'a go' at me because my horse was 'damaging' the track (even if I'd said nothing about his dog's attack)...

on one occassion he said he hoped his dog would attack the horse so I would get thrown off!!

at that point I took advice from the police who said I should call 999 if it happened again as the guy was guilty of several infractions of the law including aggressive behaviour and the issuing of threats to endanger life

this particular individual is well known locally for being a complete t*at, not just to horse riders, as he believes the whole world is placed there for his personal use and convenience
for example he though it completely unreasonable that the local cricket team objected to his using their wicket area :eek: to practice his golf swings on - divots and all...

he also put a wire across one track at rider height... fortunately the teenage girl saw it in time :eek: - the police DID do something about that little trick

ok - I digress....

as one of the posters noted, horse riders are sometimes their own worst enemy, as we tend to put up with a hell of a lot before doing anything about it...
so I would encourage everyone to share info about dangerous dogs (and individuals!) and then the police will at least 'have a word' with someone if you can come up with collaborating stories from several people

as we all agree, it's not the dogs that are at fault here...

stay safe out there
.
 
There has been some good advice given here, but I suspect that you do not want to cause a fuss, because the owner of the dog is doing her best. How about you either go to the same place, (not on your horse) same time etc, and get chatting to her, and suggest you meet up somewhere safe and she has her dog on a lead, under control, and go for a walk together, with you riding your horse, and hopefully this will help the owner desensitise her dog to your horse. You might need to do this several times, and the owner will need to be able to focus her dog on her, or divert its attention initially. Just a thought...
Obviously if she won't, and you continue to have problems, then I would ask your local dog warden to be in that area when you know the dog will be there, and he/she could have a quiet word about the responsibility of being a dog owner.
 
Laws relating to dogs
If you are unfortunate enough to suffer such an attack while riding your horse you should report the matter to the police stating that you where in ‘apprehension of injury’ due to the dog’s actions potentially causing you to be thrown. It can be argued that there was an offence under Section 3 of the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991. The case of R v Nash 2011 at Birmingham Magistrates Court, Appealed to Crown and upheld by HH Judge Faber, held that the offence was complete if the dog’s conduct was enough for the rider to apprehend injury by way of causation.
If the Police still refuse to take action, you should complain to the Independent Police Complaints Commission.

Enviromental Protection Act 1990 as amended.
State that the dog is a statutory nuisance.
Can be used for a pool of effluent across a highway.
Can be used to shift an aggressive stallion from a field with a bridleway.
To prevent a field of lamas on the other side of a fence alongside a bridleway.
The county can serve notice.

The Town Police Clauses Act 1847
Dog owners have a duty to ensure that their animals does not threaten or harm a member of the public. The act makes it an offence for any ‘unmizzled ferocious dog’ to be at large in any street (the term is defined as including any public passage and therefore covers all rights of way).

The Dogs (Protection of Livestock) act 1953 and the animals act 1971 are important in assessing liability for harm done by dogs.
 
wildflower said:
Are you hacking out at the same times each day ?.........try a different time if possible then maybe you won,t meet the collie.Are you wearing plenty of hi vis........then dog owners can see you and can call their dogs back, before they get too close.Would it help to push your horse on in trot and get past dogs quicker and keep his mind occupied and not concentrating too much on the dogs ...................I also would not be afraid to ask owners to put their dogs back on a lead till you are out of sight, you could say they have a tendency to kick and may injure the dog:D
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I totally disagree with this statement. You should not have to alter your legitimate behavior to accommodate someone behaving wrongly. The dog should not out of their complete control, legally it is down to them to alter their behavior. report them ASAP.
 
When I was a teenager my pony kicked out at a dog and killed it. It was just awful and it took me a long time to get over it. We had hunted regularly and he wasn't afraid of dogs but this one chased us and just got to close so he quite rightly defended himself. I would urge you to be assertive with the owner and explain what might happen as I'd hate you to have to go through something similar. I always ask owners to re call their dogs now and have reported the ones that don't to the police or the dog warden. Good luck with this is a difficult situation.
 
amymay said:
I imagine your horse reared up because he'd got himself wound up and was being a bit of a prat.

As for the collie - one good wallop should sort it, plus strong words with the owner.
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I agree also say to the owner if my horse kicks your dog and kills it its your fault.

I always say watch your dog , my horse will kick it if it gets close.

Shame really I used to take my dog out with me so dogs are usually distracted with him so leave the horse, but now dog can't cope with long rides.


how about giving him a calmer before you ride out to settle him if there is dogs about. You would hate it if he got free and injured himself
I turn round and start riding fats towards the dog, allot run off then . Big dogs I be more carefull.


But as Amymay said good wallop with stick and words to owner
 
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