What to do next with problematic horse... About at wits end :(

She's not done it with the girls that are riding her at the minute, as they have not ridden her in the same circumstances.

If I ride her when it is very quiet, no one else in the school or around it, she is a dream.
 
OP you are drip feeding and it is very difficult to figure out what is going on.

I feel for you. I have just had to retire a horse after 18 months of veterinary investigations and it is a horrible position to be in. I have also used this forum to run ideas through others and get advice and it can be a useful tool, however you need to be a bit clearer.

Give us a detailed medical history with investigations done and possible diagnoses. Aside from anything else it will help you clarify what has been done and what needs doing further - it is also useful to keep a detailed record for referrals to other vets (I have a 6 page document for my retired horse which includes photos and videos).

The circumstances she plays up in don't necessarily preclude pain. It may be that she is in pain but finds it more tolerable when not put under pressure by other factors. So in a quiet, calm environment she may be able to tolerate the pain, but in a stressful environment it becomes too much.
 
bollybop said:
She's not done it with the girls that are riding her at the minute, as they have not ridden her in the same circumstances.

If I ride her when it is very quiet, no one else in the school or around it, she is a dream.
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Then I am completely at a loss to understand why you are trying to get a vet to do a ligament resection on her back, as per your other thread that I answered.

You need a diagnosis. Forget the bodyworkers, whisperers and trainers for the moment and get either a scintigraph or a thermography, whichever you can afford, to try to find out if this horse has physical issues. Check for PSD and rethink turning her away if you cannot afford to treat her.

I hope you have already tried sending her away to see if a reputable trainer has any issues with her? That would seem like a no-brainer to me.


Ps I agree with Booboos, my horse's reaction to the pain of his back was ten times worse in a competition environment than at home on his own.
 
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The ligament thingy is forwards thinking, as I wanted to know what the vets thought, as they are the experts on it. The thermography woman is coming on Monday, so I can then press the vets to investigate any problematic looking areas on Thursday. I have already mentioned the PSD to them.

And yes she has been sent to a very good trainer, whom I re spoke to yesterday.
 
bollybop, the last couple of posts are some of the best on this thread. I'd follow cptrayes advice personally. They are the routes that will give you definitive answers, which will hopefully in turn help you to find a way through this that leads to success, not back in the same place in 6 months time.
 
Her napping behaviour was improved whilst she was there.

I asked them yesterday if they thought it could be medical, or if they thought just behavioural, and they said, that unfortunately it could be either.
 
Not read all replies but maybe she just isn't for you?
I hate to say that sorry but I had a mare for a year that I chucked money at trying to find out why every now and then she'd 'do one' and throw me off. Found nothing. It was always in the school never hacking and never jumping-always when asking her to work in a proper outline. Also, the minute I left the saddle she'd stand and just go to sleep...
I think she just didn't want to-teeth fine, back fine, tack new and fine everything fine! Her previous owner had her sent up to Rossdales for x-rays of spine etc and they found nothing... so obviously she did it to her as well!
She found a new home a few months ago as a PC pony-all she does is hack and jump rarely does schooling she's ridden x 2 a day etc and she's not put a hoof wrong..loves it there.. I think we just didn't like eachother and had different interests!
 
bollybop said:
Her napping behaviour was improved whilst she was there.

I asked them yesterday if they thought it could be medical, or if they thought just behavioural, and they said, that unfortunately it could be either.
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Does improved mean she didn't do it or she did do it and they were able to sort her out?

I agree with them though in that it could be behavioural OR pain related. Horses will work through pain if we make them think they'll get worse if they don't and a firm but fair trainer may have got your horse thinking it wasn't worth it, whereas with you he thinks it is.

I think cptrayes just wanted a bit more detailed info, not just that you had sent to a trainer.

It's really hard to watch people trying to offer you genuine help and advice, which takes up their valuable time when you give such limited information about things. Not a dig, but aimed at helping you help the people that are trying to help you.
 
See what your vets think but it may well be worth to go the whole hog and do a scintigraphy. It is an exceptionally useful diagnostic tool and a thermography doesn't come anywhere near it in terms of diagnostic use. Ask your vets about a painkiller test as well, it is not conclusive but can be helpful.

If everything comes up clear, try exclusion diets:
- try the EPMS diet
- try a sugar free diet
- try a no grass diet
 
She can't have bone scan as I can't afford it. Well I possibly could but then wouldn't have any more money left to spend on what treatment may be required.

This horse, and the one before her, have bled me dry of my savings on all the vets bills ive had to fund.
 
haven't read any other comments so could be a repeat but you say just come back from pro and all was well...do u think shes maybe taking pee outa yu ! .... maybe get pro to supervise the times you ride her etc to get used to her and learn what she needs maybe ur just a bit soft compared to what she was used to x
 
bollybop said:
She can't have bone scan as I can't afford it. Well I possibly could but then wouldn't have any more money left to spend on what treatment may be required.

This horse, and the one before her, have bled me dry of my savings on all the vets bills ive had to fund.
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I sympathise having just spent a fortune to end up retiring the horse!

Perhaps the best thing to do in that case is to cancel all further investigations, give her a year's rest and see if she's any better coming back into work. If the answer is no, maybe it's time to retire her.
 
I'd do a bute trial
Id ask vet for 20 bute, 1 two times a day for ten days to try and see if it is pain and if it can be eliminated ,

Also I'd not bankrupt myself over a horse, if I tried everything I could afford and nothing changed, I'd call it a day. I would not put myself into debt.
 
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Daytona said:
I'd do a bute trial
Id ask vet for 20 bute, 1 two times a day for ten days to try and see if it is pain and if it can be eliminated ,

Also I'd not bankrupt myself over a horse, if I tried everything I could afford and nothing changed, I'd call it a day. I would not put myself into debt.
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I have recently been told by a vet that they have discovered that Bute trials are not very effective on sacroiliac pain and my own horse required four Bute a day before he could be ridden with his kissing spines (I didn't, of course).
 
Could be pain from else where who knows and because the owner does not want to really waste much more money is a pretty cheap way to check if there is pain at all. Id do it anyway for my own mind.
 
I agree. I have never had a bute trial work yet on a horse with ridden 'issues'. Lameness and stiffness, yes, but those difficult to put your fingers on the cause issues, it has never had an effect on IME. I would go so far as to say that just because a horse is no better after bute, does not mean it is not in pain. I know that myself with my sacroiliac pain. No amount of paracetamol, codeine or tramadol will touch it.
 
Daytona said:
Could be pain from else where who knows and because the owner does not want to really waste much more money is a pretty cheap way to check if there is pain at all. Id do it anyway for my own mind.
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Bute trials can NOT tell you that there is no pain .
But they can tell you there is pain that is senestive to that type of pain relief but there are loads of things that bute does not take the pain away from so a lack of a positive result from a bute trials must ever be used to Infer the horse has no pain.
 
bollybop said:
TI shows hot spots on hocks and in front feet
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The thermal imaging you mean ?
So thats where I would start your search hocks and feet both impose KS type stress on the horse as they try to find a way to work around the issues they are seeking to hide .
I
 
bollybop said:
TI shows hot spots on hocks and in front feet
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So what is the next step?

Hot spots in hocks can mean spavin or PSD, or just wear and tear from compensating for issues elsewhere. The hot spots in the front feet would concern me more. Perhaps navicular or laminitis? Or ddft ligament strain?
 
the hocks and fore feet should always be considered when horses show SI and KS type discomfort there is no point in trying to fix either if the horse has foot pain or hock pain .
Although SI and KS can be stand alone issues my bet is more often than not they are driven by other issues.

OP you need to make careful choices based on the financial resources you have at your disposal .
The foot issues well come right with the BF approach which is cheap to do but requires time and effort ffrom the rider .
Nerve blocking may help an experianced vet narrow the area in the foot and X-rays may tell you if it's a bony issue this should not be to expensive .
The hocks may be a bit harder as you have no reaction to hock flexions I would take a series of X-rays and ultra sound scans if it where me I and I was trying to save very penny I would start with the ultrasound of the suspensories and see where you from there.
Good luck.
 
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I have previously mentioned to them I wanted an ultrasound doing on the horse. Lets hope they have all the equipment in the surgery!
 
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