What to do...

[Connemara24]

Ulcers...
I don't want to get him scoped as don't want to risk the chance of colic even if it's tiny. The vet can give me omeprazole without scoping which I was going to do until, someone very knowledgeable suggested relyne gi and seaweed to help treat the ulcers and some people after doing lots of research have said it has treated their horses ulcers.
So what would you try? Should I try relyne first or just go for gastrogard?
He is showing all symptoms of ulcers except weight loss. I have tried him on gastriaid and it did help him a bit. Thanks

 

[milliepops]

He might colic FROM ulcers while you are umming and ahhing so i wouldn't base my treatment plans on that personally.

I really would recommend doing a scope because without that before and after treatment of any kind you won't really know what you are dealing with and whether treatment has been successful.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I would definitely scope first. The very small risk of colic is far outweighed by the benefit of knowing whether he really has them or not.

What did the vet find when he was lame recently?

 

[I'm Dun]

He might colic FROM ulcers while you are umming and ahhing so i wouldn't base my treatment plans on that personally.

I really would recommend doing a scope because without that before and after treatment of any kind you won't really know what you are dealing with and whether treatment has been successful.

This! the risk of colic from scoping is tiny, the risk of colic from ulcers is much more substantial. And supplements do not treat ulcers. They might mask symptoms, but they wont cure them. You need to know if you have ulcers or not before treating.

Mine was actively colicking and was booked in for a scope while still suffering from low grade colic, as it was the next logical step. As it happened we didn't do that in the end, but I would have had no issues at all with that plan had he not drastically improved.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I would take what the vet will give you it's a reliable treatment for ulcers.

I actually understand not wanting to scope one of my horses has nerve damage in his face and any kind of scope or tubing aggravates it so I would really avoid it in this kind of situation as well.

 

[Squeak]

Go with the vets treatment. You can spend months and lots of money on supplements for ulcers and get no where.

 

[milliepops]

The reason I would go for scoping is that otherwise you're working blind. Mine had very mild ulcers on the scope (and a very big behavioural reaction to them) but the standard course of treatment didn't resolve them, she needed an extra 8 weeks or so to the standard recommendation. If we hadn't scoped to check for successful treatment we wouldn't have known they were still a problem. Vet assumed they would have been long gone. The gastrogard is the expensive bit of the treatment by far, an *average* horse can tolerate a scope pretty well.

 

[I'm Dun]

And it turned out mine didnt have ulcers at all, so I could have thrown a huge amount of money at it and still not sorted the actual issue.

 

[Patterdale]

I would never scope again.
It’s not working blind - you go by the clinical signs that you see. I’d do a course of Abler omeprazole.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Mine had all the symptoms too, and two vets thought that foregut ulcers were highly likely, but she scoped clear.

What a waste of time and money that would have been if she'd just been given omeprazole on a hunch. Plus the mare would have suffered unnecessarily for much longer than she needed to.

It was hind gut ulcers instead, which do not respond to omeprazole. We were able to get on with dealing with those without messing about with the wrong medication.

 

[Goldenstar]

It’s a hard one and I can see both sides and have done both but on balance I would scope first rather than just treat .
I send them into the vets for the night before rather than starve at home .
Then they get done first thing in the morning and it’s over they get them eating again at the vets before they come home .

 

[MereChristmas]

My pony colicked 3 times. His other symptoms puzzled my vet. I had the pony scoped. He had grade 2 ulcers. After 4 injections he was scoped again. The ulcers were nearly healed so 2 more injections were given. The investigations and treatment took 5 months. He was restarted 2 months ago and all is well so far.

 

[Connemara24]

Thank you everyone, it has helped me make my mind up! I'm going to treat with gastrogard for a week or 2 and see if there is any improvement but if not I will probably scope. The other thing that I forgot to mention is that he started showing these symptoms when he got laminitis and was on very restricted forage and stabled 24/7 which as you know can cause ulcers and he was on 2x bute a day. And when he hasn't had ad-lib hay and runs out of hay he gets even more grumpy. if any of that makes any difference to if you would scope on not. Thanks

 

[Connemara24]

What did the vet find when he was lame recently?[/QUOTE]

They said he had just sprained it from being a idiot in the field. And to keep him in until the swelling had gone down. He's started going out again now. Thanks

 

[Sossigpoker]

This! the risk of colic from scoping is tiny, the risk of colic from ulcers is much more substantial. And supplements do not treat ulcers. They might mask symptoms, but they wont cure them. You need to know if you have ulcers or not before treating.

Mine was actively colicking and was booked in for a scope while still suffering from low grade colic, as it was the next logical step. As it happened we didn't do that in the end, but I would have had no issues at all with that plan had he not drastically improved.

Couldn't agree more.

Plus,.the pain from ulcers can be horrific !


Get that horse scoped and treated.
I had mine scoped 3 times without any issues..I fed small portions of sloppy feeds after he came round from the sedation , little and often.

 

[spacefaer]

Do you know how much gastroguard costs? It's not something to be used lightly. I'd scope first to see what is going on, before potentially wasting 100s of pounds if the gastroguard isn't needed.

 

[Connemara24]

I hear you but like I said I'll scope him if no improvement, I'm picking the gastrogard up today. I do know how much it costs but willing to pay it to avoid scoping. I know I sound dramatic but I've lost 2 horses recently and to me it's not worth the risk. So I'd rather pay out. Thank you for your replys and you have helped me make my mind up to scope if no improvement.

 

[Birker2020]

Ulcers...
I don't want to get him scoped as don't want to risk the chance of colic even if it's tiny. The vet can give me omeprazole without scoping which I was going to do until, someone very knowledgeable suggested relyne gi and seaweed to help treat the ulcers and some people after doing lots of research have said it has treated their horses ulcers.
So what would you try? Should I try relyne first or just go for gastrogard?
He is showing all symptoms of ulcers except weight loss. I have tried him on gastriaid and it did help him a bit. Thanks

I'm curious to know if your insurance company would pay out on a 'theory' that your horse may have ulcers rather than the vet diagnosing it based upon proof i.e scoping.

If you are not insured have you discussed the price of Gastroguard or its equivalent with the vet? I was told £400-£600 per week for a minimum of 6 weeks.

 

[Birker2020]

I'm picking the gastrogard up today. I do know how much it costs but willing to pay it to avoid scoping. .

I personally think you are mad to contemplate doing this without scoping first. Especially if you knew how much it actually costs, please make sure you ask in case they just stick in on your bill. Its exrcuciatingly expensive.

Its my understanding that its very rare for a horse to colic after scoping. I replied to another post about this recently which is why I know.

Of the 573 gastroscopies, 17 (2.9%) ended in colic within 48 hours of the procedure; 16 cases were considered mild and responded to conservative treatment but one case required two subsequent abdominal surgeries, eventually resulting in euthanasia related to lipoma. Colic was attributed primarily to gastric impaction in 12 of the 17 colic cases. https://ker.com/equinews/incidence-... is a,however, colic occurs after gastroscopy.


Like I say the risks are very low.

 

[Connemara24]

Okay thanks, it's 240 a week at my vets.

 

[Connemara24]

I'm not insured no as haven't owned him long but have looked after him for 4yrs. Long story....

 

[Birker2020]

I'm not insured no as haven't owned him long but have looked after him for 4yrs. Long story....

Oh no. That's not good. Going to be quite expensive for you then.
Did they give you any indication of how long you will have to give the Gastroguard for?
I'd still not feel comfortable giving a horse something like that without knowing that there was a real reason for it and the only way you will know that is if you scope. I don't think it would do any harm but its the cost of something that might not resolve the situation.

If you are basing the theory he has ulcers on say, the fact he is girthy then ulcers could be completely irrelevant. It could be he has a sore back, the saddle doesn't fit or about a hundred other reasons.

It know its tough if you've lost a horse before to colic, but sometimes you have to take a risk and if the risk is so negligible then I'd go for it myself.

 

[Connemara24]

Thank you. I'll give him a week on gastrogard and see then I'll scope.
He is girthy, very grumpy when being brushed touched rugged, poor performance, his coat isn't in the best shape but it's not dreadful.
He doesn't have cushings.

 

[Connemara24]

He shows no signs of back pain I'm not riding him at the moment, I am getting the physio for him ASAP. Him being grumpy/ Trying to nip me is completely out of character.

 

[milliepops]

not relevant to the OP but FWIW my insurance told me they would only pay out for treatment for grade 2 ulcers or worse, which you obviously only know after visualising them on the scope. Good luck OP. are you going to just do omeprazole or also sucralfate?

 

[Connemara24]

not relevant to the OP but FWIW my insurance told me they would only pay out for treatment for grade 2 ulcers or worse, which you obviously only know after visualising them on the scope. Good luck OP. are you going to just do omeprazole or also sucralfate?

Thank you, the vet hasn't mentioned feeding sulcralfate. I have heard about it would you recommend feeding it with omeprazole?

 

[MereChristmas]

My vet wouldn’t prescribe gastroguard or sucralfate without scoping first unless the horse had previous ulcer history. He said he needed to know he exactly what he needed to treat.

 

[milliepops]

Thank you, the vet hasn't mentioned feeding sulcralfate. I have heard about it would you recommend feeding it with omeprazole?

Depends on the types of ulcers present but they are prescribed together quite commonly

 

[scats]

We treated a horse of mine for ulcers without scoping, although the vets did try to scope him, but he put someone in an ambulance when he came down on their head. He was deemed too dangerous to continue to try and scope, but they agreed to treat him based on his symptoms.
We didn’t call him the hooligan for nothing!

 

[Connemara24]

Depends on the types of ulcers present but they are prescribed together quite commonly

Thank you I'll speak to vet about it.