What to feed a poor doer?

[CrimsonDivine]

Does your vet think your horse is too thin?

Vets are refusing to come out unless it's urgent so she has not seen him.

Just been trying to add pictures but getting "the uploaded file is too large for the server to process"

 

[CrimsonDivine]

Is he in ridden work at the moment? If so what type of work and how much weight is he carrying approximately?

No he is not.

 

[ycbm]

CD can you explain what you mean when you say you are "just about able" to feel his ribs? I ask because I'm "just about able" to feel the main body of my mare ribs if I push my fingers into the fat that covers them. She has to be too fat in summer to weigh more than she does at the moment. So if you are using that term the same way I would, the weight loss in winter isn't harmful, in fact it's a positive benefit.

If you load your photos into something else like Facebook, photoshop or a blog, you can pick up the URL and post it here inside [img ] [/img ], but with no spaces in the brackets.

 

[ownedbyaconnie]

Vets are refusing to come out unless it's urgent so she has not seen him.

Just been trying to add pictures but getting "the uploaded file is too large for the server to process"

I have done it before where I have sent a photo to my vet to see if they are concerned before taking up their time with an actual call out. Can you take a photo and ask your vet what they think?

Unless your vet has actually seen YOUR horse I would take the recommended weight with a pinch of salt. YCBM is very experienced with horses of all shapes and sizes, poor doors and good doors so I would pay particular attention to her posts.

weigh tapes are only really useful to keep a track on your horses weight from a weight loss and gain point of view, rather than their actual weight if that makes sense. Eg eith my mare when I started her weight loss journey she was 400kg on the weigh tape and by the end she was 360kg, I have no idea whether those figures are actually right but I was happy that she had at least lost weight. Now I measure her every now and then and use 360kg mark as my aim for that particular time of year. Who knows whether she does actually weigh 360kg or not! My vet still thinks she could lose a little and I can just about feel her ribs. But if I typed recommended weight for a 14.1 connemara, google comes back with 400kg+.

 

[COldNag]

From your description, he doesn't sound poor. If he picks up over summer, that sounds right.

 

[Goldenstar]

I am concerned because, as I've already said; he's not at the recommended weight according to the tape, which of course most people will use as most of us don't have a scale for a horse on hand. His body drops to a point that looks bad by the time he comes out of Winter which brought me to the conclusion that if he maintained an ideal weight he wouldn't be that way. No I am not comparing him to overweight horses, unless you all think 400kg is overweight?? From what I know that's the average healthy weight for his breed. So of course this is why I asked here; to find out what others with similar horses do to help theirs. To me a poor doer is not an underweight horse, or pony, but one that cannot maintain a suitable weight and requires specific diet to help them.

He is turned out 24/7, medium weight rug, field shelter and open stalls so he can go indoors out of bad weather.

I will provide photos when I get the chance to do so.

I think young horses go through periods of dropping a bit of fat and then making it up in winter it does not matter its healthy and shows a properly functioning metabolism.
What you need to train your eye to see is the horse breaking down muscle for energy that’s the clue you need to up the food .My choice for upping food would always be to change the all or some of the forage for something higher in calories this is not always possible because of the confines of mixed yards .
If your horse was mine I would bring him into the stable daily from now on long enough for a decent feed and some high value forage .
I would do this because it would get him away from the others and you know hes eating what you give him and also at this age it’s a good training discipline to slip in if he does not know this already , I taught my youngsters about this younger .
I don’t think there’s any point in using a weight tape to decide your horse does not weigh enough they have a roll for monitoring change where they are a little better than nothing .
I weigh my horses and gave up on weight tapes when I realised how wildly inaccurate they are .
I have no issue with a youngster showing ribs I think normal and healthy when they are growing particularly in winter .

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I am concerned because, as I've already said; he's not at the recommended weight according to the tape, which of course most people will use as most of us don't have a scale for a horse on hand. His body drops to a point that looks bad by the time he comes out of Winter which brought me to the conclusion that if he maintained an ideal weight he wouldn't be that way. No I am not comparing him to overweight horses, unless you all think 400kg is overweight?? From what I know that's the average healthy weight for his breed. So of course this is why I asked here; to find out what others with similar horses do to help theirs. To me a poor doer is not an underweight horse, or pony, but one that cannot maintain a suitable weight and requires specific diet to help them.

He is turned out 24/7, medium weight rug, field shelter and open stalls so he can go indoors out of bad weather.

I will provide photos when I get the chance to do so.

Most people don't use the weight-tape to judge their horses' weight, except very roughly, maybe for worming. Most people use a weight-tape to monitor their horses' weight - maintain, loss or gain? Far better to condition score your horse than to slavishly follow recommendations from anywhere, particularly feed companies. Your horse doesn't sound like a poor doer, just a horse experiencing growth spurts from time to time.

And yes, I have had TBx horses, first one was xWelsh D, then 2x Appaloosa with a high level of TB, none have been difficult to keep weight on, except in that they were all very feed sensitive and our most effective strategy was working out what they were sensitive to.

 

[HashRouge]

Vets are refusing to come out unless it's urgent so she has not seen him.

Just been trying to add pictures but getting "the uploaded file is too large for the server to process"

The reason people are a bit confused is because it's not clear from your posts whether the horse actually looks poor and underweight and you are concerned because of this, in which case you have an issue, or if you have been told what his recommended weight is and are worried because he doesn't weigh this, even though he actually looks fine.

It doesn't really matter what your vet (or the internet) tells you is the recommended weight for an Arab. Firstly, using a tape is not that accurate so unless you use a weigh bridge you have no idea of the actual weight of your horse. The tape is useful for seeing if he is gaining or putting on weight, but it might be that if you put him on a weigh bridge you'd find he actually is 400kg. Secondly, Arabs come in all shapes and sizes and yours is not a purebred, which should also be factored in. I have a 28 year old Arab who is quite small, at just over 14.1hh without shoes. I ride another purebred, who is seven and much taller, at 15.3hh without shoes. They will not weigh the same! This is why people are telling you not to worry too much about recommended weights.

What I would do, if you really are concerned and are not able to tell from looking at him whether he is the right weight or not, is take some good photos (side on and from the back) and send them to your vet. Even if they are not doing routine callouts they will almost certainly do a phone consultation for you and review the photos. I did this last week - horse has a skin infection that I was worried might be cellulitis, so I rang the vet, arranged for a phone appointment, and emailed over some photos of the leg. Vet rang me back whilst looking at the photos, asked me a few questions and prescribed antibiotics, which arrived by post two days later. The phone consult itself was £35 which I thought was quite reasonable, and they said that if the vet judged that the horse needed an in person visit then the cost of the phone consult would be subtracted from the callout. I'm sure your vet will do something similar.

 

[CrimsonDivine]

OMG I hate this forum someitimes and by that I mean the actual site. So far most of you have been helpful and insightful and I appreciate that. Reason I say I hate it is cus I'm trying to insert quotes and getting this "oops, something went wrong" on a constant basis. I have tried other devices and browsers and still get this problem. So of course it is becoming a bit frustrating when trying to reply. I also get this when trying to load a page at times or simply get a blank page. Seems if I'm not logged in I can load a page just fine but then I can't respond, go figure.

Since I'm having an issue with inserting quotes I'll just try to reply things that was brought up..

Ok so first of all the question [user]ycbm[/user] asked, and it could be my poor choice of words as I often seem to do this, what I meant when I said that you can only just feel the ribs, vaguely, and by that I mean merely from brushing my fingers over his body I can feel them but only just, quite vague, not too obvious or pronounced, nor can i feel every rib, more toward the center of the ribcage, furthest to the front. But you cannot see them in plain sight. I had read feeling and even seeing a little bit of rib on this kind of horse, especially at this time of year and with age considered, is quite normal. So no, I wasn't referring to pressing down into the fat, though sometimes you do have to feel for them when he has a good thick fur coat. This is also why I score him moderate 4 and not quite good at 5/10. So to me he is moderately good? I donno.. I'd score 4.5 if there were such a thing? But he does look more 5 than 4 by mere observation, if that makes any sense? Feeling on his body I can feel more bone than I can see. However, another problem I have is visual impairment myself so I find it difficult to go by observation alone, though I do take photos every month and enhance them to see if I can tell a difference here and there or to show them to someone else for a second opinion. However, with that being said; a person I share field with keeps telling me he looks fine, others have said he looks great. If I must enlighten the fact for the reasons of my paranoia it is because I was harassed by local horse owners last year late Winter/Early Spring with a threat note stating they were going to call Animal Welfare due to his appearance. Of course this upset me and has left me wondering and worrying about him this year around. I do have anxiety issues so I can get upset and wound up pretty easily and even if it was just out of spite I'd still take it too much to heart and get worried by it. As for Animal Welfare? They said he was fine. And I know you'll probably say take no notice but it's easier said than done, I am quite sensitive and they are constantly passing by my field as it is right next to the local bridleway and I've have had riders shouting and cussing at me "feed that f*cking horse". Well I am!! I can't do any more than I am doing! Hell, I'm personally not a big fan of stuffing them full of grains they wouldn't naturally get from forage but this is the go-to thing when having a horse with weight loss issues and when you can't provide natural forage what else can you do? However there is also such thing as "killing your horse with kindness" so.. yeah, I don't want to be one of those people. Anyway.. I digress.

Of course, as stated, I did seak out numerous expert advice and guidance and went by what I was told, as some of us would do. So naturally when he seems to have gone below what I was recommended again I got upset.
As for the photos? I don't upload to social media, I stay well clear of it where I can. I have photos on Google Drive but I don't think they allow you to link in forums? I will look into that.

This brings me to my next statement;

[user]ownedbyaconnie] said: I would take the recommended weight with a pinch of salt

and perhaps they are right. I need to use it as a light guide rather than gosbel but that is why I try to stay in a grey line which to me should be around 380. Don't get me wrong not trying to argue this case, I will accept maybe I have got to the point where I'm getting worked up over nothing but I have my reasons for this. The vet did specifically tel lme to "aim for 380kg and try not to let him drop below 360 next Winter" aka this Winter this year as we spoke last year. Well he's already done that and I know ya keep saying that the weight tape is not accurate but as you also stated it is a good way to tell whether he's lost weight and that part is pretty clear to me. God forbid if he comes out of Winter looking a sorry state again and I get more hassle from the locals again. Thank you for your insight, I do appreciate it. I will also look at the possiblity of sending photos to my vet but quite often than not they argue about "we need to give a proper assessment and will need to come out to do so" but then in the next breath they're saying "However, due to Covid19 restrictions we are not sending vets out right now unless it is critically urgent". They never want to make things easy and only interested if you are paying a call out fee it would seem.

Phew... lol. Ok and finally;

[user]Goldenstar[/user] said: If your horse was mine I would bring him into the stable daily from now on long enough for a decent feed and some high value forage .

Well he is brought in every evening for feed and has a haynet, holds about 6kg inwhich I put around 4kg in, which I leave him to eat for at least a couple of hours and sometimes even bring him in during the morning for some alfalfa and let him finish off his haynet ration. Reason he hadn't finished it the night before? Cus I have to kick him out of the stall in order to go home as this particular stall is where I store feed buckets among other things such as tack as I have no where else to put it. However, I do put out hay in the field as well before I leave scattered around of at least 16-18kg worth which is shared between 3 horses other horses. I have read to keep forage at around 2% bodyweight whihch for a 400kg horse is about 4kg so to me this is certainly enough for 4 horses to share and we do spread it far enough apart so they're not fighting and bullying each other and there is more than half a dozen to a dozen piles of it scattered about. I'd prefer a round bale for 24/7 ad lib but the person I share with does not agree to this for numerous reasons. One being her mare is top dog and will dominate the bale over others, especially him as he's the lowest of the pecking order and due to vehicle damage when the tractor used to bring it up the field many years ago as this left over a foot deep tire tracks in our field. Also one of her horses is prone to lami and the other eats like a pig, as in she eats alot, not that she gauges and leaves none left for others, who is the boss of the herd so she gets first dibs and dominates the pecking order.

Again I really do appreciate your feedback and insight guys, it's been really helpful. I was a bit ruluctant to talk about this again as some responses were pretty mean last time I posted about my horse on here but I have to say it seems the responses seem to be a bit better this time around. Though it does seem most of you haven't spoke to me before so there's that I suppose. Sorry about the long paragraphs and me venting about things but hopefully this paints a bigger picture to my problem. Maybe it's just me, I honestly don't know. But one would like to think when you seak out professional advice they'll tell you what you need to know and what you should do for the best interest of your horse. Tis really annoying when one says one thing and one says another and then to make it worse that other doesn't even want to explain it properly to me and tries to pass me on to someone else. Again I digress.. sorry.

The main point in all this is trying to find what can help maintain my horse's weight, that is the primary goal here which is why I simply asked "what do you feed a poor doer?" rather than explain my life story with my horse and go into a debate once again.

 

[CrimsonDivine]

HashRouge (argh... what is the correct way for user link tag?? lol ._. I tried [user ] and [user="name" ]) said:
The reason people are a bit confused is because it's not clear from your posts whether the horse actually looks poor and underweight and you are concerned because of this, in which case you have an issue, or if you have been told what his recommended weight is and are worried because he doesn't weigh this, even though he actually looks fine.

Definately the latter but I also fear that his body score goes down when he comes into Spring and then people accuse me of not taking proper care of him As for the thing about the vent conultation? Worth a try though it would be £35 wasted if I'm worrying about nothing and until hie shows bad signs I doubt there's really much to go on right now except that he most certainly has lost weight due to tape measurement. And yes I know you all keep saying weight tapes are no good but why else were they invented then? Surely if they're that bad they couldn't be sold for mislreading the owners?? Either way, it was stated that it does help to recognise weight loss due to measurements changing, regardless of accuracy of how much they weigh and he most certainly has. So far no major changes in his body score, he looks fine to me. I'm just afraid that he won't in a couple of months and then I'm back in square one and lined up against the wall for further pot shots from the locals so to speak. Again maybe I should take no notice but this is certainly easier said than done, can't stress that enough. Some days I wish people would just leave me alone but then how else can you learn other than from your own experience if not from other people? And it's not like everyone is bad and out to bully and belittle me I suppose. So yeah, I turn to this forum in high hopes that people will be helpful to me and point me in the right direction. So far people have and their views, including yours, has been most enlightening. It has certainly given me alot to think about. Still wondering what to do though when the time comes. Am I really doing enough for him? Truth is I've never owned a poor doer, even though I'm very much experienced with other breeds of horse. I feel like I should know what I'm doing but I just feel so lost and without hope and faith. Again this is probably just me and the way I am.

 

[DabDab]

No he is not.

Ah ok. The reason I asked is because lighter youngsters can look a bit poor before they start working and build muscle and can come up quite light on the tape weight too. Your horse actually sounds in reasonable condition (from your description of the look/feel of him) for a youngster out of work, and being on the lighter side will be to his advantage as he is not carrying extra weight on young joints.

I've posted up thread what I feed mine, but tbh with most poor doers who are in no or light work I've always found the real key is getting as much hay into them as possible rather than bucket feeds. Bucket feeds are useful for getting vitamins/minerals into them and for providing extra nutritional requirements (energy in different forms, protein etc) for horses in a bit more work, but make much less of an impact on youngsters out of work.

 

[COldNag]

Honestly, if you can't see the ribs and you can only just feel them that sounds like your horse is doing fine, especially given the time of year.

To echo what others have said, I find weightapes wildly inaccurate for giving actual weight but useful for keeping an eye on gain or loss.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Why on earth do you care what random passers-by, with obviously little or no knowledge about horses think? FGS Have the courage of your own convictions!

 

[PapaverFollis]

You seem very confused about the actual condition your horse is in.

 

[ownedbyaconnie]

Why on earth do you care what random passers-by, with obviously little or no knowledge about horses think? FGS Have the courage of your own convictions!

This! Let them call horse welfare charities. They’ll come (maybe), see your horse is absolutely fine and that will be that.

 

[COldNag]

Why on earth do you care what random passers-by, with obviously little or no knowledge about horses think? FGS Have the courage of your own convictions!

Actually that's a good point. I think a lot of people are so used to seeing overweight horses they think that's the norm.

Mine you can certainly see a bit of rib this time of year. But it won't be long before I'm having to muzzle when the grass kicks in. When vet saw him recently she commented that he was looking in good condition. She knows I'm monitoring for possible Cushings and her view was that he is not looking poor, and is in good nick. But random passers by might well think he's a thin pony.

 

[CrimsonDivine]

These were taken last month. And no, unfortunately that grass he's on is not our field, it's an area on our local bridleway that I was taking him to almost every day should weather permit it in order for him to get some of that nice thick grass. Sadly I haven't been able to take him out lately due to icy pathway, too slippry for the both of us.

Ah ok. The reason I asked is because lighter youngsters can look a bit poor before they start working and build muscle and can come up quite light on the tape weight too. Your horse actually sounds in reasonable condition (from your description of the look/feel of him) for a youngster out of work, and being on the lighter side will be to his advantage as he is not carrying extra weight on young joints.

I've posted up thread what I feed mine, but tbh with most poor doers who are in no or light work I've always found the real key is getting as much hay into them as possible rather than bucket feeds. Bucket feeds are useful for getting vitamins/minerals into them and for providing extra nutritional requirements (energy in different forms, protein etc) for horses in a bit more work, but make much less of an impact on youngsters out of work.

Ohh.. it's [quote="name, post: ######, member: ######" ] in order to tag a user, yeah.. that's too technical lol. Anyway.. in response to DabDab; I've decided not to work him yet, probably going to start ground work this year, as to give hims bones a chance to fully develop and fuse as arabs bones don't normally fuse until they reach the age of 6, unlike some other horse breeds. I believe a similar age group applies to Thoroughbreds as well, since they are actually bred from Arabs, which is why I don't understand why they race them so young except for their spirit, agility, energy etc I suppose but it's still wrong in my books. Thank you for your response. Sorry mine was a bit short before, it was a bit late for me. And yes I saw your comment regarding bucket feeds, sorry if I seemed to overlook that, and it kind of conflicts with the use of feed, though I'm inclined to possibly agree with you here I just don't know what I think of it overall at present. Don't really want to be dealing with mixed thoughts in my head lol. I was told to make sure he gets feed containing vitamins and minerals due to the possible lack of it in his forage, perhaps i really should get that analysed, especially since it's clear he loses weight this time of the year and it was encouraged by my vet to help put on his weight through Autumn if he wasn't meeting the weight she had set out for him to be. And yes she did advise "use the weight tape" to analyse this and told me to to stick to this mark. So yes, it is all conflicting and perhaps, as someone has been saying in another thread; this is why we are too use to seeing overweight horses and we're too eager to pump them with grain and hay that they may not necersarily need because we do not like seeing them too lean which could infact be natural for them.

*gets another oops error and wants to tear hair out*

 

[COldNag]

Nice horse
I don't think I'd be concerned from those photos - but there are more knowledgeable people than me on this thread and I'd take more notice of what they say

 

[Goldenstar]

I used to be a welfare officer and let me tell you people simply don’t know what a normal slim healthy youngster looks like and that may well be you are getting hassle from people .
Of course I can’t tell if your horse is ok because I have not seen him .
Condition scoring in the real world is also about the demeanour of the horse if he moves sharply freely and happily is the horse bright ?horses in trouble get a lethargic dull demeanour.
It is not nice to think people are threatening to report you , a fair percentage of calls I got where to normal horses probably being reported by people with obese well rugged cobs .
The belt and braces way is to pay for a call from a sensible experienced horse vet ask them to bring out the weight bridge if they can .
Take and act on any advice that is an absolute protection should someone from one of the welfare charities calling in .
I would be cautious about putting weight on your young horse unless you really trust the people telling there’s a problem .

 

[Goldenstar]

Ah your pictures arrived while I was typing .
No problem with that youngster he’s a nice horse a very nice type .
He looks good me .

 

[CrimsonDivine]

Ah your pictures arrived while I was typing .
No problem with that youngster he’s a nice horse a very nice type .
He looks good me .

Thank you, that means alot o me. Bare in mind this is after around 2 months of A&P, Alfa-A and some Speedibeet. I can provide previous pictures but it's tedious. However, I'd say his bodyscore in Summer and Autumn was most definately 4 to 5 with only Alfa-A throughout the year to give him that extra boost. No grain during Spring and Summer, just alfalfa. Last year he got no alfalfa cus I hadn't heard about it before and cus he did really well on last year's grass due to moving onto a new field where there was plenty at the time. This year? ehh.. not so much now we have 4 horses on it. We have around 4.5 acres. Frankly I would prefer 1.5 acre to a horse, maybe even 2 acres, not 1 acre as welfare seems to recommend but this isn't always doable it would seem. Not to mention the cost of loaning a bigger field. Sorry I digress.. bad habbit of mine.

 

[DabDab]

He looks fine from the photos

 

[PurBee]

Aww what a sweet looking boy, with a gorgeously shiny winter coat!
He looks very much like my gelding looked at 4/5yrs. It really did amaze me how long it took for him to look physically ‘mature’. I had read about overfeeding youngsters and causing bone growth issues, and mine, like yours, wasnt worked at that age, so i kept his feed at 8kg hay at least, 500gm beet pulp unmolassed, 1kg opti-care balancer from gain for basic minerals, 2 teaspoons magnesium oxide added as low in Gain balancer and low in hay.
He was my first youngster and i was adamant not to start pouring in grain into him to bulk him up, and allow the slow growth as nature intended.
I agree, its quite shocking that sports horses are demanded a great deal of at the tender age of 3.

As mentioned already, when theyre not in work at all and just loafing around theyre not working and building muscle, and can be very lean. If youre planning on this summer working him, his shape will change.

Sorry to hear youre getting comments from others at your yard. Its amazing how some in the equine world get used to seeing fat horses and think a fleshy horse is the ‘new normal’. Fat horses are the ones with health issues, and its always best to be on the leaner side than holding fat.
As a longterm solution as the people surrounding you really arent supporting your horse journey, maybe consider looking at moving to a new yard?

i cant post pics of mine at 4 as i dont have any on this device, but considering the season we’re in, and his age, and especially as he’s low in the pecking order of the 4 horses, him being slim is no surprise, yet judging by just his coat condition, he’s getting adequate nutrition.
When my horse returned to me from a loan gone wrong, after being with another herd for a year and being the lowest in the pecking order, and not being given hay in winter or adequate nutrition, you could see his ribs despite long winter coat, and his coat was dull. So glad i got him back when i did. Yours is not a welfare case, so be confident he’s growing and youre doing all you can for him!

 

[windand rain]

Looks fine to me too

 

[ycbm]

Looks in absolutely super condition for his age to me CD, so much so I'd compliment you for not having a fat youngster, it's SO bad for their joints.

I don't think there is any difference in the age at which the growth plates close between one breed and another, by the way.

 

[CrimsonDivine]

Looks fine to me too

He's fed hay every day by the way. As are pretty much every horse in this area and there's more than a few dozen in the entire area and we've kept horses here for well over 30 years, just so you know since you were so keen to tell me that I talk garbage in another thread. And no, we've not got any with obesity problems with our horses and never will. Though one or two have been laminic, though I personally blame the pasture condition more than anything else. That or maybe they weren't able to get exercise. That is still one or two vs aproximately 42 in the area. I myself have had ponies but never a lightweight horse or "poor doer" as most commonly refer them as. However, as I said earlier in this thread; to me a poor doer is a horse who cannot maintain their weight and require a special type of diet in order to do so. Unfortunately this is quite common among lightweight horses but I would not suggest that others don't have this problem simply for being a different type of horse. Whilst you're so busy worrying about overweight horses some of us have a legit reason to be worrying about others being underweight. Sorry for getting at you after you gave possitive feedback but you had the audacity to call me out in another thread and then decided to post here and comment on my horse, which I just find rather ironic. Thank you for the comment but yeah, hay EVERY day and that's not about to change any time soon, well not until Spring anyway. Unless of course he happens to be overweight then of course his diet will change again but I can't really see that happening. At least I don't deprive mine and lock him in a stall and refuse to listen to others telling them they have a "shitty attitude" just because they were told an answer they didn't want to hear or didn't agree with. And no that part wasn't you but you were happy to support that person and derogated me.

 

[windand rain]

At no point did I suggest that light weight breeds should not have hay but referring to the other thread you were extremely rude when advised that FAT horses needed adlib hay they dont . Each horse should be kept in the condition of your youngster not like blobs of lard which many native or good doer types are. Your youngster is the right weight for going into Spring wouldnt want it any fatter. Some ponies and horses can eat their weight in hay in 4 hours so have to be restricted to weighed amounts of hay. What is more if not controlled it will kill them. Grass doesnt cause lamiitis failed metabolism, failed control over food intake and failure to restrict food intake in winter does. Your pony is lovely but if it becomes a good doer at maturity as some Arabs do then dont stuff it with hay in winter. By the way I have had horses for nearly 60 years never had a case of laminitis not caused by others and only one bout of colic in all that time because the pony was eating hay off the floor

 

[CrimsonDivine]

Aww what a sweet looking boy, with a gorgeously shiny winter coat!
He looks very much like my gelding looked at 4/5yrs. It really did amaze me how long it took for him to look physically ‘mature’. I had read about overfeeding youngsters and causing bone growth issues, and mine, like yours, wasnt worked at that age, so i kept his feed at 8kg hay at least, 500gm beet pulp unmolassed, 1kg opti-care balancer from gain for basic minerals, 2 teaspoons magnesium oxide added as low in Gain balancer and low in hay.
He was my first youngster and i was adamant not to start pouring in grain into him to bulk him up, and allow the slow growth as nature intended.
I agree, its quite shocking that sports horses are demanded a great deal of at the tender age of 3.

As mentioned already, when theyre not in work at all and just loafing around theyre not working and building muscle, and can be very lean. If youre planning on this summer working him, his shape will change.

Sorry to hear youre getting comments from others at your yard. Its amazing how some in the equine world get used to seeing fat horses and think a fleshy horse is the ‘new normal’. Fat horses are the ones with health issues, and its always best to be on the leaner side than holding fat.
As a longterm solution as the people surrounding you really arent supporting your horse journey, maybe consider looking at moving to a new yard?

i cant post pics of mine at 4 as i dont have any on this device, but considering the season we’re in, and his age, and especially as he’s low in the pecking order of the 4 horses, him being slim is no surprise, yet judging by just his coat condition, he’s getting adequate nutrition.
When my horse returned to me from a loan gone wrong, after being with another herd for a year and being the lowest in the pecking order, and not being given hay in winter or adequate nutrition, you could see his ribs despite long winter coat, and his coat was dull. So glad i got him back when i did. Yours is not a welfare case, so be confident he’s growing and youre doing all you can for him!

Certainly easier said than done to be honest. I've struggled ot find somewhere to go for quite some time now and only moved up the road last year to get away from another yard. Although the person I share with does cause me stress from time to time it's not her that I have the problem with when it comes to my horse's weight and bodyscore, it is other horse owners in the local area. So it's not really where I keep my horses that is the problem persay, even though technically it is when you consider those other people. Also, I was brought up in this area and kept ponies here pretty much most of my life, don't really want to leave to be honest. Although I had considered moving to Cornwall.. lol. Also the cost of moving, which I most certainly can't afford right now.

Sorry to hear about your horse, I've heard so many bad stories regarding "horse loans gone wrong". Good that you've had them returned and set things right. However, I don't think my horse isn't getting enough due to the other horses, they do let him eat, infact I've seen my pony share wit him and she's second in command so to speak lol.

Looks in absolutely super condition for his age to me CD, so much so I'd compliment you for not having a fat youngster, it's SO bad for their joints.

I don't think there is any difference in the age at which the growth plates close between one breed and another, by the way.

Yeah, I'm not so sure what I read was true but I found articles relating to what I read here and here. However, I have also found this article that certainly does support your statement. Either way, i refuse to ride my horse until he's fully matured, which should be in 2022 or there about.

 

[CrimsonDivine]

At no point did I suggest that light weight breeds should not have hay but referring to the other thread you were extremely rude when advised that FAT horses needed adlib hay they dont . Each horse should be kept in the condition of your youngster not like blobs of lard which many native or good doer types are. Your youngster is the right weight for going into Spring wouldnt want it any fatter. Some ponies and horses can eat their weight in hay in 4 hours so have to be restricted to weighed amounts of hay. What is more if not controlled it will kill them. Grass doesnt cause lamiitis failed metabolism, failed control over food intake and failure to restrict food intake in winter does. Your pony is lovely but if it becomes a good doer at maturity as some Arabs do then dont stuff it with hay in winter. By the way I have had horses for nearly 60 years never had a case of laminitis not caused by others and only one bout of colic in all that time because the pony was eating hay off the floor

Funny you should say that cus at no point did I say FAT horses need hay, but then there are NO articles stating that they don't either! What was it you said? little and often? I agree! Needing exercise to burn off calories? I also agree! However, fact is that person's horse is NOT fat, nor was it ever stated that she was by them or anyone else, and frankly I don't see why you're going on about it so damn much like it is. You've jumped on some sort of paddywagon and came up with that al lby yourself. Which I might add isn't very constructive or helpful. Fact is the OP was clearly having indifferent thoughts about feeding her whilst she was indoors. Biggest problem is they're allowing their emotions get the better of them and obviously not able to decide what is best for that horse. I am most definately with you on your views on obese horses, I really am. But to say I spoke "garbage" when I most certainly do not was quite rude. I take pride in what I know about horses, as I have no doubt you do as well. I have studied quite extensively since I was in highschool, ridden since I was 7 and now I'm 37 as of last year! When you're ranting and raving about fat horses in a thread that it doesn't even apply to it does make me wonder who really talks "garbage" to be honest. Hell, I'll admit, I don't know everything and I'm still learning but I most certainly do not appreciate being spoken to like that.
You also seemed quite happy to play devil's advocate for those who obviously do not understand a horse's mentality and needs and whom, like too many people in the horse world, believes that locking them up and depriving them of food is the best solution. Even though they clearly stated they felt sorry for their horse, as would I as it is wrong! In a way I was glad he felt sorry for his horse but still not happy to hear about her way of life. And no I really honestly couldn't care less if it's a law in Sweden, not that I found any such law. There really ought to be a law against it as there ought to be one regarding bodyscore and obesity in this country as there seems to be in their country from what I read this evening during my time researching the situation they claim to be in. Again, I found no such law that they claimed where in Sweden that you MUST keep your horse in off pasture for 12 hours a day, that's rediculous and ludicrous As for the ad lib statement? you have a web browser else you wouldn't be on here, search Google and read about it for yourself. I'm tired of having to show people what is blaintently out there under their very noses. Horses have been eating hay, mostly through Winter, for hundreds, perhaps even thousands of years, whilst in domestication of man and not once has ANYONE claimed such things as you seem to.

I do not condone nor will ever sit back and ignore people who lock horses in stalls with no basic esentials and like it or not; food is one of those. As you don't condone nor will ignore those who overfeed them and allow them to become obese. We both clearly have strong views on these topics and there's nothing wrong with that. What was wrong was your remarks thereafter.

With that being said; if I had to be honest? after your "he talks garbage" remarks your comments aren't welcome when you address me, whether you are being kind to me or not. The comments you made toward me and about me to others in that other thread were not very nice at all and I don't appreciate that. So do me a favour and refrain from responding to my threads if you don't mind. I respect your views but I certainly don't respect your rudeness toward me when I most certainly didn't warrant it. If you honestly felt that I was wrong then feel free to discuss and debate, don't tell me I speak garbage just because I know differently. Once again I state; two wrongs never make a right. You claim I was rude? You're not setting a good example yourself.

 

[ownedbyaconnie]

Again, I found no such law that they claimed where in Sweden that you MUST keep your horse in off pasture for 12 hours a day, that's rediculous and ludicrous

that wasn’t the law they claimed. The law is that if the horse is to be turned out for a period of time and I think at below a certain temperature then there must be a shelter in the field. I can’t remember the specifics exactly but it’s certainly not what you have claimed above.