What triggers requiring planning permission if wanting to make a track across a field?

[Pearlsasinger]

I was surprised to read this as our land is all sloping and we really like the mats. Then I saw that your vehicle is 2WD, I'm not sure why you took it into the field at all. Having said that ours are selectable 4WD and are rarely using it on the mats. I guess that your matted area is too small to sit on top of the mud.

 

[mudder]

I was surprised to read this as our land is all sloping and we really like the mats. Then I saw that your vehicle is 2WD, I'm not sure why you took it into the field at all. Having said that ours are selectable 4WD and are rarely using it on the mats. I guess that your matted area is too small to sit on top of the mud.

As already discussed in the thread it was to make an access track from MC slabs instead of gravel to not have to deal with any possible planning issues? I was presuming they would perform similarly to gravel, which would normal to drive through a field in a standard car on a gravel access track. Seems I overestimated their efficacy for this task.

I already mentioned it wasn't to do with the mud. They weren't muddy in the second case when I was stuck, it was because of the incline and the rubber spinning on plastic, mud not in the equation to any appreciable degree.

Even if your vehicles are 2wd/4wd optional I would imagine they would still be much more suitable for off-roading even in 2wd mode. Probably better tyres for a start. Also the open differential is different too I guess, maybe not having it. So by no means a like for like comparison.

 

[tda]

Definitely look into swapping your quad for 4WD. You could try some coarse sand over the mats which may help but imo will just get washed away

Were you towing with the quad?

 

[mudder]

Definitely look into swapping your quad for 4WD. You could try some coarse sand over the mats which may help but imo will just get washed away

Were you towing with the quad?

Lol, not sure where quad has come from?

It is just a normal road vehicle.

 

[PurBee]

As already discussed in the thread it was to make an access track from MC slabs instead of gravel to not have to deal with any possible planning issues? I was presuming they would perform similarly to gravel, which would normal to drive through a field in a standard car on a gravel access track. Seems I overestimated their efficacy for this task.

I already mentioned it wasn't to do with the mud. They weren't muddy in the second case when I was stuck, it was because of the incline and the rubber spinning on plastic, mud not in the equation to any appreciable degree.

Even if your vehicles are 2wd/4wd optional I would imagine they would still be much more suitable for off-roading even in 2wd mode. Probably better tyres for a start. Also the open differential is different too I guess, maybe not having it. So by no means a like for like comparison.

I hear you, our 4wd defender land rover has some beefy road tyres on it but once the tread is filled with slick mud there’s a high risk of wheel spin on even minimal mud.
I have a hilarious pic of the landy stuck in minimal mud with our teeny john deer tractor pulling it out! A 1 ton vehicle rescuing a 2 ton 4wd! The tyres on the john deer are mud tyres…..yet we’ve even got that stuck in 2 foot deep mud! There’s limits to all vehicles, especially when the tyre tread fills with slick mud.

There’s mud ‘skids’ that are used by the 4x4 enthusiasts that do off-roading. A strong hard plastic ‘washboard’ type design that you carry with you and throw under the tyres for them to gain traction. They’re useful.
OH kindly reminds me theyre called waffle boards!

waffle boards 4x4 at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

For the dodgy section with an incline, are you able to get a tonne bag of , whats called here ‘chip and dust’? Its used for concreting work mostly, being a mixture of sand and small sharp stone. Its easy to shovel where you want to put it, and vastly easier to shovel about that most larger hardcores. We use it for mildly slippy mud areas and it bed-down well.
If its not a massive long section and just a couple of metres of slippiness, you might find it easier to get sand/stone mix bags from a diy store and spread onto the worst bits, where the mats get slippy.

The roofing material you mention is called bitumen felt. Its a good idea, but how to keep it fixed in place would require experimenting.

Mud…oh mud…i’ve spent years like many here dealing with mud and bogs….let’s sing together “mud, mud, glorious mud”!
Spring will soon dry-out the worst…any day now

 

[tda]

Lol, not sure where quad has come from?

It is just a normal road vehicle.

Oops sorry, didn't read properly

 

[PurBee]

OH has mentioned snow chains could give you more grip on the mats, as a temporary solution.

What mats did you go for? Are they the small interlocking ones with the round holes and raised circles surface?

 

[PurBee]

We are on clay so I have just about tried everything, including drainage and hardcore, so I have used this over hardcore to stabilise the Type 2 and its effective short term, about two years but it degrades with light, and if anything catches it tears.
I use Mud Control for temporary paths, I do have them as permanent flooring but I have laid them loose and if was just for a car would try without the sand base and just where the tyres run, in a staggered join.

https://mudcontrolgrid.ca/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/hanitNA-TS-MCG.pdf

Sorry hp, missed your post. It’s shocking to hear that ground stabilisation mesh isn’t UV stable. Thank god we didnt spend thousands trying it out and wasting our time! Why they make something plastic for outside use without light degradation inhibitors in it, is beyond me.

We have some plastic tensile fencing that’s lasted so far 15yrs…excellent stuff…still as flexible as the day it was installed…so it can be done.

 

[mudder]

I hear you, our 4wd defender land rover has some beefy road tyres on it but once the tread is filled with slick mud there’s a high risk of wheel spin on even minimal mud.
I have a hilarious pic of the landy stuck in minimal mud with our teeny john deer tractor pulling it out! A 1 ton vehicle rescuing a 2 ton 4wd! The tyres on the john deer are mud tyres…..yet we’ve even got that stuck in 2 foot deep mud! There’s limits to all vehicles, especially when the tyre tread fills with slick mud.

There’s mud ‘skids’ that are used by the 4x4 enthusiasts that do off-roading. A strong hard plastic ‘washboard’ type design that you carry with you and throw under the tyres for them to gain traction. They’re useful.
OH kindly reminds me theyre called waffle boards!

waffle boards 4x4 at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

For the dodgy section with an incline, are you able to get a tonne bag of , whats called here ‘chip and dust’? Its used for concreting work mostly, being a mixture of sand and small sharp stone. Its easy to shovel where you want to put it, and vastly easier to shovel about that most larger hardcores. We use it for mildly slippy mud areas and it bed-down well.
If its not a massive long section and just a couple of metres of slippiness, you might find it easier to get sand/stone mix bags from a diy store and spread onto the worst bits, where the mats get slippy.

The roofing material you mention is called bitumen felt. Its a good idea, but how to keep it fixed in place would require experimenting.

Mud…oh mud…i’ve spent years like many here dealing with mud and bogs….let’s sing together “mud, mud, glorious mud”!
Spring will soon dry-out the worst…any day now

The chip and dust is what I was using! I think it is the same anyway, it is the MOT type 1, which is smallish chips down to dust.

I don't think anything like that will matter because, as I wrote, the problem is when the wheels spun on the plastic they would not grab whatever I put under and mostly just spit it away.

It isn't like when you have a wheel stuck in mud, which happened lots of times on the hardcore section where I might drive a bit wide or it just went patchy in places. In those cases the mud beneath actually grabs the gravel and holds it in place from my experience. The hard plastic is not letting whatever you put down have any purchase so the wheel just slingshots it out!

Thanks for the bitumen felt reminder. I guess it could easily be glued or staked down. Experimentation as you say.

Yea for you it's ok if you have a tractor as a backup! It is all the more worrying and risky for me with no backup! There are lots of farmers around here but I am a newcomer. I imagine they would help me at a push but I feel ashamed having to go to them, hat in hand.

Was thinking of maybe getting a winch as a backup. Manual one probably as much more affordable. Don't mind if it slow as long as it got me over the bump, inch by inch!

Also oh yea another good should for the waffle boards. I did look into them not long ago on a previous suggestion. They might be another string to the bow.

 

[mudder]

OH has mentioned snow chains could give you more grip on the mats, as a temporary solution.

Thanks. Can they be put on as a 'get out' if already stuck? Sounds like it could be a good idea. I was thinking of maybe doing 'batons', I think they are called, to give little steps on the mats but probably not very practical and snow chains might achieve a similar result on the wheels instead, giving ridges to allow it to 'clamber' up.

What mats did you go for? Are they the small interlocking ones with the round holes and raised circles surface?

Haha, always so much confusion when mentioning mud control mats! The 'officical' (tm) mudcontrol.co.uk mats.

I used the x-grid grass grids to shore up underneath the really boggy bits to stop the sloop oozing through.

 

[I'm Dun]

Batons would work but might need replacing on a semi regular basis

 

[PurBee]

Thanks. Can they be put on as a 'get out' if already stuck? Sounds like it could be a good idea. I was thinking of maybe doing 'batons', I think they are called, to give little steps on the mats but probably not very practical and snow chains might achieve a similar result on the wheels instead, giving ridges to allow it to 'clamber' up.

Haha, always so much confusion when mentioning mud control mats! The 'officical' (tm) mudcontrol.co.uk mats.

I used the x-grid grass grids to shore up underneath the really boggy bits to stop the sloop oozing through.

There’s various designs of snow chains. Some you have to lay out and drive onto to fit them fully.
But there’s others…i’ll link below, that are separate grip sections to fit to a tyre, that would be able to be fitted when actually stuck.

Amazon.co.uk

Are your tyre treads already filled with mud by the time you get to the incline? Im just wondering what tread shape/size/condition your tyres are for rubber to be slipping on plastic.
Had a look at the official mud control mats, they look sturdy enough, but i guess if you had a beefier tread on your tyres you’d get more purchase on the mats.
We get winter wet tyres for our van - theyre a tougher grade tyre and good in wet conditions.
Maybe have a look at tyre types as tread designs can make all the difference.
If you already have a common car tyre tread pattern thats just linear and doesnt zig-zag much, you might find a zig zag pattern would have better purchase.
But it would be cheaper to try the snow chain type of thing linked above, than get tyres changed, but tyre type is a consideration long term.

Long term, if tyres are fairly good and if change of vehicle isnt an option..!…i’d remove the mats and throw down hardcore on those trickier areas.

 

[PurBee]

Winches are great! If you have something strong enough to winch to.
You can get some fitted on vehicles that will run off your car battery. Manual ones are cheaper and more portable so very handy.

 

[mudder]

There’s various designs of snow chains. Some you have to lay out and drive onto to fit them fully.
But there’s others…i’ll link below, that are separate grip sections to fit to a tyre, that would be able to be fitted when actually stuck.

Amazon.co.uk

Are your tyre treads already filled with mud by the time you get to the incline? Im just wondering what tread shape/size/condition your tyres are for rubber to be slipping on plastic.
Had a look at the official mud control mats, they look sturdy enough, but i guess if you had a beefier tread on your tyres you’d get more purchase on the mats.
We get winter wet tyres for our van - theyre a tougher grade tyre and good in wet conditions.
Maybe have a look at tyre types as tread designs can make all the difference.
If you already have a common car tyre tread pattern thats just linear and doesnt zig-zag much, you might find a zig zag pattern would have better purchase.
But it would be cheaper to try the snow chain type of thing linked above, than get tyres changed, but tyre type is a consideration long term.

Long term, if tyres are fairly good and if change of vehicle isnt an option..!…i’d remove the mats and throw down hardcore on those trickier areas.

I had a few more ideas since yesterday.

While thinking about the traction mats/waffle boards, then thinking of DIY waffle boards, my mind then suddenly made the connection...why not add nobbles to the mud control mats!?

I might buy a couple of those boards as well to help me out while experimenting but it would be a very simple option to screw down some metal, like screws, to the existing slabs.

Of course it will void the warranty for those but I am used to voiding warranties now with my experiments/DIY fixes.

Screws seem the simplest but any better suggestions? The spikier the better, like a pyramid point would be best but don't really have any idea what what suit for this purpose of securing down. You know like the studs on s & m bondage gear on leather jackets, we all have some of that kit riiight? What is it called frankie goes to hollywood style garb? Popular in the 80s I think. Studs like those but ones I could fasten down securely.

Screws might be the best bet unless anyone can suggest anything that might be better?

As I was researching it more the 2 options are either change the tyres or the surface they are running on. Well that sounds pretty obvious now I write it but it seems there are more options, and perhaps cheaper to manipulate the surface which the tyres are running. Could do both of course, and indeed my tyres are just the bog standard ford ones I think so could very well benefit from different ones, but might as well try the cheaper options/easier options first as buying and changing all the tyres is probably going to be the most involved of the methods and pricy.

I have had some other good suggestions for 'tricks' I can use for the van such as 'stabbing' the brake to overcome the open differential and also starting the ignition in lowest gear without using the clutch!

Those are for 'get outs' but the more tools in the toolbox the better.

I know this all sounds very convoluted vs. just laying a proper gravel track but still the no planning permission requirements and able to move them around to different configurations are still big perks.

 

[mudder]

Winches are great! If you have something strong enough to winch to.
You can get some fitted on vehicles that will run off your car battery. Manual ones are cheaper and more portable so very handy.

Yea I was having a look around the field yesterday for likely candidates in the hedgrow in a general straight line to the track but none unfortunately. There are some massive oaks in the hedge but not close to where I would want to pull it from.

Could I not hammer in a felled medium sized trunk or two, already have some cut which I haven't used about 10-20cm thick, into the ground at the top of the incline of the track?

Of course they would have to go in deep but I guess would have to be a postcrete job to make them stable under the winch's towing power and when postcrete comes in then planning comes in again I bet!

 

[PurBee]

I had a few more ideas since yesterday.

While thinking about the traction mats/waffle boards, then thinking of DIY waffle boards, my mind then suddenly made the connection...why not add nobbles to the mud control mats!?

I might buy a couple of those boards as well to help me out while experimenting but it would be a very simple option to screw down some metal, like screws, to the existing slabs.

Of course it will void the warranty for those but I am used to voiding warranties now with my experiments/DIY fixes.

Screws seem the simplest but any better suggestions? The spikier the better, like a pyramid point would be best but don't really have any idea what what suit for this purpose of securing down. You know like the studs on s & m bondage gear on leather jackets, we all have some of that kit riiight? What is it called frankie goes to hollywood style garb? Popular in the 80s I think. Studs like those but ones I could fasten down securely.

Screws might be the best bet unless anyone can suggest anything that might be better?

As I was researching it more the 2 options are either change the tyres or the surface they are running on. Well that sounds pretty obvious now I write it but it seems there are more options, and perhaps cheaper to manipulate the surface which the tyres are running. Could do both of course, and indeed my tyres are just the bog standard ford ones I think so could very well benefit from different ones, but might as well try the cheaper options/easier options first as buying and changing all the tyres is probably going to be the most involved of the methods and pricy.

I have had some other good suggestions for 'tricks' I can use for the van such as 'stabbing' the brake to overcome the open differential and also starting the ignition in lowest gear without using the clutch!

Those are for 'get outs' but the more tools in the toolbox the better.

I know this all sounds very convoluted vs. just laying a proper gravel track but still the no planning permission requirements and able to move them around to different configurations are still big perks.

Great idea to add more grip to the mats.
There’s a screw you can get which are called ‘Tek’ screws - they’re often used for screwing down roof sheeting. They come with a washer too which will give you some height to the screw. They’re not too spiky to possibly damage tyres, but should give enough proudness from the mats for the rubber to catch on.
They’re hexagonal shaped, and are self-drilling, strong screws, so easy to just screw into anything. They come in various lengths.
You’d need a 8mm hex drill bit driver to put them in with.

 

[PurBee]

The tek screws we use often and self-drill into anything, plastic wood and sheet metal.

For a winch point, you could consider whamming in with a sledgehammer a thinner metal pole. We managed to get a 5 foot long inch thick metal round pole from an agri supplies store - its shaped like a chisel one end and round at the other end. That’s useful for banging into ground deep as a winch point anywhere we get stuck.
Fix the winch to the base of the pole for max pole strength. Even if it moves through the topsoil when pulling the vehicle, you find its subsoil depth keeps it firm enough to winch from.

 

[Muddywellies]

What about if you scrape back the grass to level it out? Does that then make it 'development'?

In my experience, yes it does (tho may vary county to county)

 

[mudder]

Great idea to add more grip to the mats.
There’s a screw you can get which are called ‘Tek’ screws - they’re often used for screwing down roof sheeting. They come with a washer too which will give you some height to the screw. They’re not too spiky to possibly damage tyres, but should give enough proudness from the mats for the rubber to catch on.
They’re hexagonal shaped, and are self-drilling, strong screws, so easy to just screw into anything. They come in various lengths.
You’d need a 8mm hex drill bit driver to put them in with.

View attachment 155426

Oh great suggestion thanks!

I know exactly what these ones are. I have used them not too long ago on the van. Just had a few as part of an install kit.