What truly makes a 'nasty' horse?

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misskk88

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Having read a lot of posts but not commented on them all, I have often read people describing a horse as nasty or dangerous.

To me there is a difference between the two. A dangerous horse may be so out of pain, fear, or instinct etc. With time, the right understanding and correct diagnosis, these horses usually can come good. A nasty horse will be one that is intentionally out to cause harm to human or other animal, thus also making it dangerous and usually it will never come completely good.

I think there seems to be a great confusion between the two, and I am getting more and more maddened by the amount of people that label their horses nasty or dangerous, with little understanding as to WHY they get the reaction they do. Rather than choose to evaluate what they have in front of them, the reasons for it through vet, farrier, experienced rider etc, they label it as a wrong'un and try to fob it off.

Now I know that is a sweeping generalisation and most horse owners are the exact opposite and have the horses best interests at heart! But truly, how many of you have met a nasty horse, rather than one that is labelled 'dangerous' or 'bad tempered' out of misunderstanding? I don't think I have ever met one that was truly nasty- I am talking all out to ensure you are hurt/killed. Naughty and dangerous behaviour has often been explained months down the line with diagnosis of pain or injury in those that have been described as nasty or dangerous.

I am not looking for a debate about what to do with these types of horses, as we all know what options there are and I don't want to turn this into a rehabilitate or pts argument! Just curious as to how many have met what they would call a genuinely 'nasty' horse?
 
I have NEVER met a truly NASTY horse....

My last horse was a stubborn git and was extremely wily with it! I adored him despite the acrobatics he put me through. More recently he started becoming "dangerous" but this was due to kissing spines and through no fault of his own. He was acting nasty but not because he wanted to, purely because he was in pain.

A lot of horses are labelled dangerous but they are not nasty intentionally. I think I only remember a small pony mare ever being "nasty" for the point of it and that was because she loathed kids!!!!!! Thats a fair reason!
 
Most aggressive types have been spoilt or badly handled and can be turned round in professional hands.
I did have one which killed a few sheep and tried to kill my dog, but he had been sold to someone who had not been able to cope, the horse was difficult to handle and to ride, he would have been OK in professional hands, but would never be a pet.
If you see how some stallions behave, many people would consider them to be dangerous, but they are predictable, and a good stallion man can usually build a working relationship with them.
Nasty is not the same as dangerous, nasty is one who takes advantage and it is a well considered behaviour.
 
I think that most 'nasty' horses usually have it because of a pain response / behaviour issue caused by a medical condition. However I do know a few horses that would have a go at you if you entered their stable or field by turning their backend at you and kicking or even charging with teeth gnashing !
Although there were probably good psychological reasons for it it was pretty offensive behaviour !
 
The only nasty horse I have met was a stud stallion - stabled 24 hours a day in a barn with no view of the outside and never got out of his stable apart from covering in hand.

He would go for you, and mean it and I mean teeth and legs.

I honestly believe that's why he was nasty - stir crazy.

I left after a very short period of time working there as I couldn't stand the fact that these stallions were treated like that.
 
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I've ridden horses for 28 years and I've only met 2 bad ones. Both were VERY aggressive towards people. Lunging over stable, chasing people with teeth and feet in the field. Seriously scary. If they'd been mine I wouldn't have hesitated in puting them down. They both injured a few people...
 
I bred one nasty horse that I posted out on the other thread that's running .
She was aggressive almost from birth , biting was her first vice and I mean biting not nipping .
We got that under control with repetition and by making sure we protected ourselves we handled her well did all the right things her yearling and two year years passed ok we handled with care and had to be very careful about the farrier and stiff like that ,in her three yo year I started a little groundwork and grooming daily teaching about rugs a roller and stuff like that she was very handy with her forelegs and less with her back ones but I did not trust her .
We worked on until day she got me on the head while grooming it was not sensible to continue I had hoped that work would settle her , the vet had checked all the stuff they could think of FWIW I think she would have something wrong with her we just never found what it was .
 
thewonderhorse said:
The only nasty horse I have met was a stud stallion - stabled 24 hours a day in a barn with no view of the outside and never got out of his stable apart from covering in hand.

He would go for you, and mean it and I mean teeth and legs.

I honestly believe that's why he was nasty - stir crazy.

I left after a very short period od time working there as I couldn't stand the fact that these stallions were treated like that by everyone bar me.
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This situation makes me so sad. Poor thing.
 
dibbin said:
I have met one once. 17.2hh of pure simmering evil. He once picked a child up and threw her.
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I met a horse that use to do this. But he did it with anything that was within reasonable height and distance- broom, buckets, wheelbarrows tipped over. I think the child was just unfortunate to have been small and an easy target!
 
Pie was called 'nasty' and 'dangerous' when I first got him as he used to bite (proper lunge over stable door mouth wide open kind of biting) plus he had no brakes or schooling and a cracking 180 spin if he was scared.
He was my first horse and I was at the time your average riding school kind of rider ok walk trot canter and could pop a jump. The fact that he is now praised on his manners, doesn't bite and has jumped at the Winter Leage finals at Cricklands speaks for itself really. He was neither dangerous or nasty, just a badly handled misunderstood young chap.
In our case it was just kind, consistent handling and many lessons that overcame the issues. I didn't do anything that any other reasonably confident rider could have done - but equally if he had gone to the wrong person he could have hurt someone badly.
I have been lucky that I have never met a truely nasty horse. Quirky, mishandled hurting or damaged, yes.
 
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A willingness to see nastiness surely helps. For a horse to have offensive behaviour, there needs to exist someone to be offended.

Also, a horse may have the intention to harm a human or other animal, but have a good reason to do so from its (or a purely 'biological') point of view.

So, while I have encountered many aggressive horses and/or horses with undesirable traits which made them more dangerous than most horses, I wouldn't they were 'nasty'.
 
I think the most important sentence in the OP was the bit about "a professional person." Because if you are the owner/handler of a horse that you have had a bad experience with it is VERY difficult to start again from scratch, because you often literally bear the scars and you are carrying a lot of mental baggage. Can you ever again look with love at a horse that has "deliberately" hurt you?

After years of horse and pony handling my first horse after a 10 year break was nasty to handle, the first one I had ever had and I was stumped for a while, and even dreaded bringing her in from the field to put her rug on at night. She would bite and kick and she remains the ony horse ever to have kicked me. I did manage in the end, after asking for a lot of advice and going to what I would call "alternative" people - the Tellington Touch, Monty Roberts, Parelli routes. I didn't do it all, BUT it all helped. I also heard LOTS of sad stories on the way of nasty and difficult animals, some turned around completely to be "normal" others turned around enough to be OK riding horses, with care. MOSTLY the original causes were physical, and following on from that led to bad handling which led the horse to think that all humans were threatening and bad and to attack first .............

My horse was fantastic to ride (if you were careful about her kicking other horses!) and in the end I sold her to someone who had handled her and I had told the whole story warts and all, but she wanted a cheap horse and she WAS good to ride.
I saw the horse a couple of years later and she didn't want to know me!

So there are some very sad stores of misunderstood horses, badlyhandled ones and sometimes very rarely one that was hard from the start - but that may well have been physical too. Some of the ones PTS were home bred with experienced owners, and maybe some of these didn't want to spend the time, money and emotional cost of trying to find the root cause.
Even if the root cause had been found, there might not have been enough of a cure to make them into valuable horses.
 
Thinking about it, the only horse I had met with nasty behavioural traits was a home bred one by someone I know. Stunning to look at, well handled from birth, good and experienced people around him, good to break and to ride, yet he was an absolute horror in the stable and to handle. Consistency and training was hard work with him, because you would progress one day and he would be perfect by the end with his stabling and handling and the next you would be having the same issues. Was scary to have something that would come back at you twice as hard and twice as big should you try and rectify the issue. He was handled and broken the same as many others before him who have turned out great, but his opinion and attitude was in another league! He just had little respect for people, and would happily trample you. That was the nearest I have got to a 'nasty' horse, but was more of an over inflated opinion and ego on his behalf!
 
Orangehorse said:
I think the most important sentence in the OP was the bit about "a professional person." Because if you are the owner/handler of a horse that you have had a bad experience with it is VERY difficult to start again from scratch, because you often literally bear the scars and you are carrying a lot of mental baggage. Can you ever again look with love at a horse that has "deliberately" hurt you?

So there are some very sad stores of misunderstood horses, badlyhandled ones and sometimes very rarely one that was hard from the start - but that may well have been physical too. Some of the ones PTS were home bred with experienced owners, and maybe some of these didn't want to spend the time, money and emotional cost of trying to find the root cause.
Even if the root cause had been found, there might not have been enough of a cure to make them into valuable horses.
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Totally agree about the mental baggage we carry as riders- just think of how we feel after a fall, let alone a horse that has caused harm in some way- particularly if it appears intentional. I think too many people try to deal with issues alone, so end up with an even bigger problem of a scared rider, a scared and badly handled horse and so they appear more 'dangerous' or 'nasty' than they really all.

Also agree: MISUNDERSTOOD!! Too many people don't have the care or want to dedicate the time to some horses. While I agree in inexperienced hands and in some cirumcstances PTS is the best option, I get fed up of reading this as an easy route out.
 
I have known four in my time with horses and most could be explained.

Pinky was a hunter, lethal in the stable and it wasn't even safe to feed him, he had an improvised door manger. Our farrier actually jumped out over the door complete with tools in hand after bragging that he wouldnt have a problem. BUT, he was the sweetest horse out in the field. He was okay to ride unless he got you off with his occaisional explosive buck, then he would turn and attack! Obviously at some stage of his life he had a very bad experience in a stable. He was sold to be a Masters horse with one of the Leic hunts and apparently the hard work suited him well.

Stan was a stallion. Mainly stabled but walked out in hand every day for four or five miles. He was getting on in years when I met him and he had an awful reputation as did many of his offspring (some of whom would be known to the older forum members) Out, in hand, he was charming, but inside he would allow no vet or young male near him, he could spot a vet right away and we always feared for what would happen if he were ill or injured. It broke my heart at the time but the best thing that could have happened did happen and he had a fatal heart attack after covering a mare. Another one whose troubles were obviously brought on by humans.

A young Arab, dangerous but not nasty and very misunderstood. He had been hand reared (rolls eyes) with no horse company and allowed to *play* with the person who raised him. He couldn't interact on a sensible level with either humans or other horses. In fact most other horses really hated him and would beat him up given the chance because his behaviour was so inappropriate. I felt very very sorry for this horse.

Then one of ours, Zodi. A lovely lovely boy and a real gentleman 99% of the time, incredibly gentle and (was) a dream to ride. After exhaustive and costly tests the vet has reached the conclusion he has the equivalent of a loose wire in his brain. 99% of the time it fires properly but it is the 1% where he flips that it all goes wrong and he is a danger both on the ground and ridden. He has some 'odd' behaviours that tell you he isnt quite right but nothing nasty or dangerous until he flips. He lives with my daughter, his best friend and Grandsons pony now and nothing is ever asked of him. He will never be sold or passed on and will be PTS if he deteriorates or if he loses his friend, who is older. No easy answers for this one, we bought him as a scraggy, untouched baby, backed him in the field with only a headcollar and he was brilliant.. I remember well the first time he lost the plot and afterwards he stood shaking as if he really didnt know what had happened.

Yes, most of the time you can blame humans, but there are exceptions.
 
I've only ever really met one horse that was really nasty. He was a riding school horse, 16.3hh Thoroughbred - the most gorgeous dun/buckskin I've ever seen. Then you'd go near him. I used to work on that yard and you couldn't pay me enough to go near him again. He bit me on my bum whilst I was undoing his girth to the point where I bled. I hated him. I used to ride him and he ran around like a giraffe. You couldn't put any weight in your hands because his head would shoot up. I'm sure he was in some kind of discomfort. The thing was, there was only one girl that he loved. I mean he'd prick his ears, nicker at her and I'm sure to her, he was amazing. But to me, he was truly nasty. All he ever wanted to do was kick me. I mean full force teeth and legs. Ears pinned back.
 
In 40 odd years I have only met one truly nasty horse. There was no ears back, no indicators. in fact a normal horse, good to ride, polite to handle, good to shoe, box, clip everything. He just bided his time until your guard was down and then bamm. His speciality was stamping after he had knocked someone to the ground. I looked after him and rode him for over a year, I did get flattened once and it was another horse moving quickly to stand over me that stopped me being stamped on. His owner got injured several times, not a bad bite - an absolute savaging and not just a booting - a limb breaking kick. A strange one. I would have put him down, he injured too many people for no good reason.
 
The only horse I have met that was truly nasty was also a stallion at stud. He was stabled 24/7 except when covering mares.
Would savage you if he got near enough, killed a few cats that he got hold of and was in general all-around dangerous. Even going to shows he was a liability and tried to fight with other stallions in the ring.
In nearly 30 years of being around horses I thankfully haven't had to deal with anything like him again. He has been the only horse I have truely been afraid of until I got a bridle on him. Even then you had to watch the teeth and all four legs at once because you didn't know which end was coming for you next!
The sad thing was he was made to be this way because of how he was kept. The only reason he wasn't destroyed was because he was stunningly gorgeous.
 
equestriansports said:
I've only ever really met one horse that was really nasty. He was a riding school horse, 16.3hh Thoroughbred - the most gorgeous dun/buckskin I've ever seen. Then you'd go near him. I used to work on that yard and you couldn't pay me enough to go near him again. He bit me on my bum whilst I was undoing his girth to the point where I bled. I hated him. I used to ride him and he ran around like a giraffe. You couldn't put any weight in your hands because his head would shoot up. I'm sure he was in some kind of discomfort. The thing was, there was only one girl that he loved. I mean he'd prick his ears, nicker at her and I'm sure to her, he was amazing. But to me, he was truly nasty. All he ever wanted to do was kick me. I mean full force teeth and legs. Ears pinned back.
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To me, it sounds like pain in some way. However I wonder why he chose this girl out of (I assume) all the many people that probably had contact and rode him? Equines can be funny things with who they love and trust- and it isn't always the most experienced with the best skills either!
 
fburton said:
A willingness to see nastiness surely helps. For a horse to have offensive behaviour, there needs to exist someone to be offended.

Also, a horse may have the intention to harm a human or other animal, but have a good reason to do so from its (or a purely 'biological') point of view.

So, while I have encountered many aggressive horses and/or horses with undesirable traits which made them more dangerous than most horses, I wouldn't they were 'nasty'.
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100% agree re 'nasty'.
 
I worked with 2 'nasty' horses. 1 stallion, 1 gelding. The stallion was rideable, but to lead him needed 2 of you with hats and a short stick and a long stick each and both holding on to the bit. Strangely in the stable he was ok, outside a nutter.

The gelding was one of his........not sure what went wrong with him but he was vicious to the point they had to shut both stable doors as he would attack anyone going past and you couldn't go in with him. He was PTS as nothing could be done for him. They got weaned and then turned away for about 3 years to be horses, not much handling bar feeding, a vet check, feet done etc. Usually they were fine to handle. But that one, I was told he was the only one they had that they couldn't do anything with :(

I had a Shetland who could be nasty, well, I think she just hated me, we ever got on. Kids she liked, some she likes the taste of!
 
I've known a three that were certainly very aggressive, and meant what their body language implied.
The first my old riding instructors mare, she would charge you in the paddock with teeth bared. She had my instructor leap the gate a few times.

The next a standardbred brood mare, would take two people to get a head collar on her in the crush. She was responsible for dislocating my knee by kicking me.

The third a stallion, no one was allowed into the paddock, his handler always wore a helmet and body armour. You waited at the gate for him to come to you.

Who knows what made these horses so aggressive but they were all handled by knowledgeable people, non were ridden.

Finally friends have a stallion from the Kaimanawa muster. He is proving difficult to work with compared to the others that were captured at the same time.
 
I personally don't think there's any such thing as a nasty horse or a nasty dog or a nasty animal of any kind.

Dangerous yes, nasty no. That's because nasty implies malice and there is not malice in these animals...there is usually fear, confusion, misunderstanding etc. bourne by genetics sometimes, but mostly bourne as a result of humans.

As for dangerous horses....how long is a piece of string. A beginner might find a bargy horse dangerous, but to an experienced person, it's just rude and needs to learn some manners. An experienced person might find a horse launching at you in a stable teeth ready and taking a chunk of your arm or rearing up and striking out at you to be dangerous.

I think most are just misunderstood.
 
I've known a couple-however, one definitely had reason (been used in a painful clinical trial for tendon, lots of box rest on tip of that- a 3yo colt at the time) the other was a mare and I still bear the scar where she came over the top of the door and grabbed my shoulder with her teeth. The scar was made through several layers of clothing and was made in 1986. She also backed into another horse at speed when ridden and doubled barrelled another horse-badly breaking the rider's leg in a lesson. Happened so quickly and without apparent warning. I often wondered what happened to her (she was a livery horse at a very posh yard). I think they have a reason generally. Some seems to be genetic, certainly we had some Kris fillies in that were a bit special and we weren't the only ones, and have heard that Storm Cat had a rep for being difficult and passing that on. Whether with different handling etc they'd have been different, who can tell.
 
MotherOfChickens said:
I'. Some seems to be genetic, certainly we had some Kris fillies in that were a bit special and we weren't the only ones, and have heard that Storm Cat had a rep for being difficult and passing that on. Whether with different handling etc they'd have been different, who can tell.
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Kris offspring being a bit 'special' rings a bell... I will have to have a think on that one now.
 
Ladyinred said:
Kris offspring being a bit 'special' rings a bell... I will have to have a think on that one now.
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they were sharp and seemingly easily overwhelmed. I worked at a spelling and breaking yard, we had youngsters in for backing and pre-training. They were backed in a very sympathetic manner with longreining first, some turnout-very experienced horsemen overseeing them and taking them slowly (some of the lads argued too slowly). Three of these fillies had melt downs under saddle early on and were a bit odd on the ground. Including one trapping one lad up against a wall and basically leaning on him. He couldn't call out-at least not loudly and it was only someone walking past that noticed what was happening that managed to scare her off. Another one backed under a railing while under saddle trapping her rider and yet another tried to wipe the floor with her rider. They were given 6 weeks off and re-started and were apparently tricky but not nutcases after that. Dont know what happened after.
I dare say they had a reason but the crushing one was very odd-you might 'expect' striking, kicking, biting etc but it was hard not to think this filly was being quite calculated about it.

eta colts that were in anyway aggressive, especially under saddle, no matter how they were bred, were cut asap IME.
 
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