What was Jamie Grays' line of business?

[Gingernags]

It would never occur to me not to co-operate TBH. We've had the RSPCA call in at our yard a few times- not for the horses but there are cattle on the hill next to us and a couple had lain dead for a few weeks and complaints had been made by the public. They called in to our yard to see if anyone knew how to contact the owners (I'll stress they are nothing to do with us).

Our yard is in a very public and overlooked place and sometimes we get misguided souls who instead of asking us things, ring the RSPCA. (Our winter paddocks can get very wet and muddy, but we put out haylage and prefer them to have a few hours out in the mud to being stabled 24/7.

Nothing has ever come of it and the stables are all clean bedded, the horses are in excellent condition, and the officers understand the public are a bit fluffy and soft and don't really understand. Don't think the RSPCA have every even followed up the calls - only the cows ones as unexplained dead animals left to rot in a field are not something they want to see. Saying that its 2 cows out of about 80 which is about a 2.5% rate of loss...

I would insist on my vet being present though if they ever did descend to look at the horses for any reason.

Quite honestly I'd rather have the RSPCA call in and check on the animals welfare and go away knowing there's nothing wrong and that our time was wasted by some misguided individual, than them do nothing and people get away with real cruelty.

Personally I'd like to see the owner of the cows prosecuted for as I think leaving dead animals to rot without even finding out what killed them and risking the rest of the animals, is disgusting. But I suspect as there is water and plentiful haylage and the cows aren't in bad condition, that they may not - but they are looking into it. though I think leaving plastic wrapped bales in the field that the cows have to chew through to get at the haylage, is very wrong too.

 

[competitiondiva]

A round of applause to you mother_hen, well said and totally correct, thank you for putting people straight!!!

I don't understand why people seem to get so defensive when the rspca appear. It is usually because someone has seen the animal looking poor, knows nothing of its history or sometimes even of its normal husbandry!!! (i.e the hundreds of calls to rspca to report plastic stuck on horses heads when fly masks first made an appearance!!) anyway, so the rspca attend to establish if there is cruelty going on or if there is a genuine reason for its condition. If you cooperate then it could all be ironed out very quickly, whereas if you don't cooperate then you may (if they have just cause), be faced with having police/animal health officers attend with the rspca to gain access.... I know which option I'd pick!!!!

And when I say rspca this also applies to WHW officers as they are also not warranted.

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]
The trouble is Patty that the SHG advice can be used by people who are literally torturing animals within their homes. Would you be happy for say a dog or cat to die at the hands of a cruel owner in the time it takes to obtain a police warrant? It could be killed and disposed of before anyone could do anything about it. I'd love to see the RSPCA given more powers not less and work more closely with the police.

I watch Animal Cops Houston (sad, I know!) and they have a full time police officer working within the HSPCA.

[/ QUOTE ]

As any decent human being I would hate for any animal to be tortured/neglected, or suffer cruelty. I also think the law stinks where the punishments for such crimes are concerned.

But the RSPCA have too much power in my opinion. Why should members of the public have rights to enter anyones premises? If the RSPCA are truely that concerned then maybe they should stop with their bullying ways because it's not helping animals that are being tortured.


If it was not for the tactics used by the RSPCA then groups such as the SHG would not exist. Maybe if the RSPCA were the organization they like the public to think they are then people would not have a problem welcoming them onto their property to look at their animals.

I believe you care for animals but do you believe you should have the right to freely enter a home if you suspect an animal is being ill treated?

The advice on the SHG is given for a good reason - the RSPCA have misused the power they do have and have ruined lives.

If people are fighting against the RSPCA's powers then it's only the RSPCA who are to blame. If they were a decent "charity" then people would welcome them with open arms. - Well I know I would anyhow.

 

[spaniel]

Why should members of the public have rights to enter anyones premises?

They dont Patty and neither do RSPCA unless a police officer is present.

 

[the watcher]

i have said before patty, and reiterate - your hatred for the RSPCA (which I can't agree with) has blinded you to the facts and evidence in this case - and the links in your previous post are factually incorrect on several levels.

Maybe you should really research your subject, not just dig out the flawed, one sided arguements

 

[spaniel]

http://cheetah.webtribe.net/~animadversion/

Care to comment Patty?

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am assuming that Patty is something to do with the SHG as much of what she says is contained on the website http://the-shg.org/index.htm

With regards to the advice not to allow the RSPCA to speak with your own vet, this is because then any history becomes a valid part of the evidence so if the vet had previously treated an animal for a condition that may have been due to neglect, this can then be used in evidence. f course if your history with the vet is perfectly clear of any such problems you have nothing to worry about.

As for the RSPCA influencing vets all I can say is that I have worked alongside vets acting as expert witnesses including one of the vets on the prosecution in this case and I can say with 100% confidence (as much as Patty says she is sure they were influenced) that none of these vets would be influenced in any way as it could jeopardise their MRCVS membership if they were proved to be lying.

[/ QUOTE ]

The public have a lot to learn - they truely do!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

About what?! Is this about the accusations you have made against the vets but won't back up again? Are you not a member of the public?

[/ QUOTE ]

Do some research and find out for yourself. I say this because no matter what I say I am shot down and have been accused of being a liar - something I am NOT!!!!


I am a member of the public yes.

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]
http://cheetah.webtribe.net/~animadversion/

Care to comment Patty?

[/ QUOTE ]

In what way do you expect me to comment?

 

[spaniel]

No Patty thats the point....you HAVENT. All through these threads you keep saying that people have a lot to learn and that theres more to everything than meets the eye.

However what you DONT, WONT or CANNOT do it actually enlighten us.

If you are so wise and well informed then do the decent thing and actually educate us with your knowledge.

A well thought out answer giving actual <u>proven</u> facts would stop these threads stone dead and give you credibility. Sadly I dont think this is ever going to happen.

Either cough up the FACTS properly and in full or give it up as this is just going round and round and round.....

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]
i have said before patty, and reiterate - your hatred for the RSPCA (which I can't agree with) has blinded you to the facts and evidence in this case - and the links in your previous post are factually incorrect on several levels.


[/ QUOTE ]

Before I researched the JG case I had NO argument against the RSPCA.

Maybe you should point those "factually incorrect levels" out to me.

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe you should really research your subject, not just dig out the flawed, one sided arguements

[/ QUOTE ]

Please heed your own advice.

 

[the watcher]

spaniel - from that link I followed another and it led me to the 2007 petition

'We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Hold a public enquiry into the polices and running of the RSPCA."

Details of petiton:"We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Hold a public enquiry into the polices and running of the RSPCA."

"now that the rspca are going to police the new animal welfare law who is going to police them, there is and never has been a watchdog for the rspca,we are not saying that given the right circumstances the rspca can not do a good job but on pass history they need the right direction"

and the government response...

"The Animal Welfare Act 2006 - as with most other legislation - is a ‘common informers act’. That means any person or organisation can bring a private prosecution under the legislation. It is because anyone can initiate criminal proceedings under animal welfare legislation that the RSPCA successfully prosecutes between 750 and 1,000 people each year who have been found to have caused unnecessary suffering to animals.

There is no evidence to show that this current arrangement is not working. Indeed the evidence suggests the contrary: the RSPCA are successful in some 97% of cases they bring before the courts (2004). That is a very high success rate and clearly justifies the RSPCA’s general approach. The Government is not aware of any complaints from Magistrates’ Courts about the way the RSPCA bring cases before them and we are satisfied that there are adequate safeguards in place within the judicial system to ensure that the right to bring private prosecutions is not abused.

The Government works closely with the RSPCA to ensure this country has the highest animal welfare standards. The RSPCA has played a crucial role as enforcers of animal welfare law for more than a hundred years, and the Government hopes that they will continue to do so in the future."

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]
No Patty thats the point....you HAVENT. All through these threads you keep saying that people have a lot to learn and that theres more to everything than meets the eye.

However what you DONT, WONT or CANNOT do it actually enlighten us.

If you are so wise and well informed then do the decent thing and actually educate us with your knowledge.

A well thought out answer giving actual <u>proven</u> facts would stop these threads stone dead and give you credibility. Sadly I dont think this is ever going to happen.

Either cough up the FACTS properly and in full or give it up as this is just going round and round and round.....

[/ QUOTE ]

You post a link to a website and ask me if I care to comment.

I'm not getting what you expect me to comment on. Maybe you should be the one making comments about the website as it's you and others who disagree with it's contents.

 

[spaniel]

Thats what I was initially looking for Hen, well done.

Now obviously this proves that the whole of the legal profession and right up to Govt level is actually corrupt and in cahoots with or more likely governed by the RSPCA!

 

[SpruceRI]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]



Also, Katy Robinson was another one who Mr Gray called out to a gray because he was concerned about it - Katy Robinson told Mr Gray that the gray was fine - well that gray died within days of that examination.

[ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ]

And how do you know that?

Katy Robinson might've told JG that the grey needed extensive veterinary treatment and JG told her to shove it?

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]



Also, Katy Robinson was another one who Mr Gray called out to a gray because he was concerned about it - Katy Robinson told Mr Gray that the gray was fine - well that gray died within days of that examination.

[ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ]

And how do you know that?

Katy Robinson might've told JG that the grey needed extensive veterinary treatment and JG told her to shove it?

[/ QUOTE ]


Why would JG call her out if he was only going to tell her to shove any advice?

This evidence concerning the gray was given to the court.

Same goes for a little donkey. On the 5th of Jan it was deemed as fit and healthy by vets but was dead on the 6th. This evidence was also given to the court.

 

[competitiondiva]

Ahhh but mother_hen Patty will say that they are only getting the 97% success rate through bribing (sp?) and forging evidence! rather than the obvious that they are good at what they do and only bring cases where they believe they have a good chance of success. If they didn't do this then they would be wasting charity money.

Plus if there was any substance to half these anti rspca claims do you not think that the charity commission would have investigated AND found them guilty and removed their charitable status????

 

[the watcher]

competitiondiva, added to that, if JG had co-operated fully from an early stage and voluntarily signed the animals over it might never have come to a court case, IMO, although in many respects I am glad it did as has shown JG and his standards up very clearly.

 

[competitiondiva]

In Fact actually Patty if you are accussing the rspca of any illegal actions, I urge you to go to the charity commission with whatever evidence you have and put your case forward, if not then please be quiet!!!!!! And stop spreading malicious rumour against a charity that relys on donations in order to continue bringing prosecutions against the likes of JG....

 

[Happy Horse]

[ QUOTE ]
Do some research and find out for yourself. I say this because no matter what I say I am shot down and have been accused of being a liar - something I am NOT!!!!


[/ QUOTE ]

I have done the research I need to do by working alongside the very vets you are accusing for five years, which is more than I think you have ever done. If you have conclusive proof of any wrongdoing by the vets then please report them to the RCVS - it is pointless throwing about unsubstantiated allegations on here.

 

[brighteyes]

Righto, apart from the discredited vets (and yourself, with Dozzie hanging on your coat-tails) are there any other 'defenders' of JG and his 'dealings'?

If so, where?

There seems to be just you and Dozzie.

Although he has been 'in business' for many years, I haven't heard that anyone has come forward to help prove his innocence. Could anyone possibly defend him? Surely with all his connections, and presumably countless satisfied customers, his defence lawyer could have found a few people to vouch for him? Or did the RSPCA 'get to' them first/also?

 

[Dahlia]

Horsegirl28 or something is another of JG's supporters. She mainly converses via the medium of

and a few Lols scattered here and there which there is no denying, help lay depth to Patty's claims of JG's innocence....

 

[the watcher]

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe you should really research your subject, not just dig out the flawed, one sided arguments

[/ QUOTE ]

Please heed your own advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

The difference is, long before this case and the seizures I knew all I needed to know about JG and his family and their activities - so when it came to the RSPCA and Police finding dead and starving animals on his farm I wasn't surprised, although even I was shocked at the sheer numbers involved.

 

[Paddywhack]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe you should really research your subject, not just dig out the flawed, one sided arguments

[/ QUOTE ]

Please heed your own advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

The difference is, long before this case and the seizures I knew all I needed to know about JG and his family and their activities - so when it came to the RSPCA and Police finding dead and starving animals on his farm I wasn't surprised, although even I was shocked at the sheer numbers involved.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ditto that !!!!! He was reported so many times by the public,but he was very clever and got away with it for too long,but those days are over now and hopefully he will be banned from ever having animals again..

 

[RantBucket]

Only 8 days to wait until the ban Paddywack, let’s hope he gets a decent spell in prison too, he deserves it.

 

[Paddywhack]

[ QUOTE ]
Only 8 days to wait until the ban Paddywack, let’s hope he gets a decent spell in prison too, he deserves it.

[/ QUOTE ]
He sure do,unfortunately I am going away next Thursday and wont be in UK for the sentencing......otherwise i would be up in Bicester in that court room for the sentencing with Tar and Feahers

(Was actually at Bicester Village shopping today

 

[RantBucket]

The sentencing is at Aylesbury Magistrates Court Paddywhack on 12th June at 12 noon as far as I understood it.

 

[dozzie]

Are you suggesting I am a follower?

Nah! I am a rebel! Always have been, always will be! And totally against corruption, bullying and lieing. It is the reason I never made Prime Minister.

 

[siennamum]

But starvation, brutality &amp; cruelty towards horses is ok, eh

 

[dozzie]

No, it is definitely not ok.

They shouldnt get away with it.

 

[Happy Horse]

[ QUOTE ]
Patty

I have been thinking about all this long and hard. Hard to believe I know.

Now if as you say he was set up, the question is why? Why would the charities have gone to such lengths to ensure that there was enough evidence to prosecute him and stop him trading?

And you have given me the answers I was looking for.

Is he guilty of cruelty? Yes he is Patty. It may have been legal, but nevertheless it was cruelty. Cruelty that had happened and cruelty that was going to happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dozzie I am confused - did you actually write this or was it someone else? You seem unclear as to your position on this.