What would you do in this situation?

H

Hot_Toddy7

Well-Known Member
Joined
14 September 2010
Messages
229
Location
In the sea.
Visit site
Ok, before I start, I am begging that people aren't too harsh, I am not in a great place right now.

Here goes..
December 2009 I was made aware of a horse that was due to be PTS, as an unwanted horse. I went up to see him and he looked more 30 than the 17yo I had been told about, he was out 24/7 with no rug (snow on the ground), so very hairy. He was underweight with some muscle wastage. I was told initially that he had soundness problems, but I wasn't bothered, purely because he would only be a kind of pet/forest plod/TB babysitter.
He is a Hanoverian with moderately good breeding.
Anyhow, weekend later I picked him up and couldn't wait to feed him up and put some fat on him and get him happy again.
So we started on similar sized feeds to what he had been having (1/2 scoop pasture mix & 1/2 scoop chaff twice daily), and gradually introduced conditioning cubes, calm&condition, alfa-oil.
Over the year I kept trying different things - linseed, fast fibre, blue chip, ERS Pellets, oil. I basically ended up pouring money into him, praying that he would improve, over the summer he did look better, but still not quite right, he had also seemingly come sound, he seemed happy, for the first time.
Now everyone knows Thoroughbreds aren't typically cheap to keep, so I have had the expenditure on them 2 aswell! Anyhow, ended up moving yards a couple of times, first move was to a wonderful yard - but too far and sharing not a great amount of grazing with 9 others! second move was to a nearer place, more land, but crap people/management, field turned to swamp etc!. Finally I got to where I am now lovely yard, just me - 3 stables, tackroom, 5 acres, well kept etc.
I have recently come to realize that I have been kidding myself all along, there is quite honestly a big possibility that he has something wrong, but I am now in the situation that I have poured all my time and money into him, and have nothing left to do investigations (they're all insured but he's on veteran cover!), what the hell do I do. I really can't face losing him, without him I strongly doubt I would have survived this far, I can't continue ploughing money into him, because it's driving me to financial ruin. But I can't help but feel that he never asked for this, to be my horse. If someone else had him, someone rich, they would be able to spend large amounts of money on getting him better. This really is the toughest thing I have had to do, and my current circumstances don't make anything even slightly easy. Just to give you an idea, he is currently out on good grass 24/7 - did have haylage when was in poorer area of grazing,1 scoop alfa-a oil, 1 x ERS pellets, 1 x C&C, Build and glow, evils claw, twice a day, does absolutely no work at all.
Can anyone offer any advice? I really cannot hack people telling me I am a crap owner at the moment, so if people wanting to make comments like that, could perhaps just not bother replying, that would be much appreciated.
I love this horse so very dearly, and my unhelpful father is saying PTS, but he's happy at current, but I can't continue.
 
Perhaps ask your vet out for a 'MOT' - that's what someone I know did when their horse was simply 'not right' and the vet picked up on the problem. Ditto the above poster who suggested worm count and blood test as well. :)
 
In his younger years he evented and had an accident, and has also done a front tendon at somepoint, so he is not 100% sound.
His front half is fine and he looks nice and upto weight, his back end looks not so great, not muscley at all, quite angular.
Worming is all fine, did worm count last week, and it was low, and so was the previous one. Haven't had bloods done yet, booked in for next month, have only just finished paying last vets bill so have had to pace myself a bit.
My gut instinct is cushings.
 
Last edited:
First of all you sound like a very loving owner.

Is there something unsound with him now, or is it that you are struggling to keep weight on him and doing so is cleaning you out financially? Or both?

If the latter, then what about sugar beet, if he can chew it, rather than all the fancy stuff?

If the former, and hes only sound (or still pottery) with all the expensive supplements, then it may be time to make a hard decision.

You can only do what you can do, and without you he wouldnt have had all the happy days with you. And he is old for a horse. And horses dont look into the future, so you are not betraying him - if you send him while he is still happy, that doesnt make you bad, since the only alternative is to wait until by definition he ISNT happy - is that any kinder?

There isnt a right or wrong decision as either decision would be the right one in this situation, but remember again, you can only do what you can, and take a bow for what you have done.
 
Thank you all for being helpful and not critical!

Lachlanandmarcus - it's more the first option, he is still not 100% in trot, but he will still bomb around the field with the other 2, and will also jump out of the field (post & rail fencing) if left on his own (is now always stabled when others are out lol!)
I am definitely going to give SB a go, sounds like a plan!

Miss_c - I like the idea of having an MOT, does anyone know roughly how much it would cost (we are down south and I know vet costs vary so much!)
 
Having nursed several horses up until they were mid 30's I know the expense it can incur, but I also know that YOU ARE doing everything possible.
I learnt very quickly that old horses are like old humans - look at the elderly, they lose a lot of muscle mass and quickly if they are not nourished properly.
I would recommend just asking the vet to pop out and give him a general check over and perhaps look at his teeth.
I would not go for sugar beet because this can scour them and lose valuable nutrients (in my personal experience).
What kind of feed have you opted for - I personally found d&h 16 plus and happy hoof to be a very good combination for my 32 yr old suffering cushings.
Good Luck and you are doing a fine job!!
 
Do you know the horse's previous vet? You could ask them about his vet history & ask advice, vets don't usually charge for advice given over the phone. (Well mine don't) You could ask your vet to assess horse & advise. I know you say you have no money but they might let you pay off so much per month. Sounds as if you have tried so hard with this horse would life be so bad if you did one last thing for him & had him PTS? I'm sure you wouldn't want him to move on to someone else, maybe not so nice, & then be PTS. Some decisions are so hard to make when you're so close the situation.
 
Our old pony lost weight last summer, he drank huge quantities of water,we guessed cushings and the vet started him on pergolide.
He was not tested but responded to the treatment and is now really well and stable on half a tablet on alternate days,so not too expensive.
If you have a helpful vet it could be worth a trial without the costs of the testing.
 
be positive - that sounds like a good idea, nice to hear from someone about their experience with it, have done a bit of reading, but there's so much info on the web, some of it is quite contradictory.

Mari - yeah he is with me until the end, I wouldn't even contemplate the free horse thing, he is my non-biological child, money-pit and I have such a bond with him.
 
0452.jpg


This is him last summer, he is looking the same now - he looks ok from the side, but his hindquarters look poor from behind
 
I think you may be too used to fat horses!!! This horse looks infabulous condition, if a little lacking in muscle on the hind quarters, not surprising for a horse in no work (why the boots?). Stop stressing!! How old is he? 17 or 30?
 
This was when he was sound so was going for a light plod, I am anal about boots and put them on for any type of hacking lol. He is 18 now and 17.3hh. He does look ok from the side but his HQ from behind do look alot worse, can't find any hiny photos though.
 
Personally I cann't see anything wrong with him, for a horse that is not in work he looks absoultely fine.By that I mean that he is not working so he is not building muscle, does he miss being ridden ? my old mare used to get really stroppy when left behind as the lorry went out, even though she was not left alone. Do you think that he is stressed and worrying the weight off ? his coat does seem very good and if his eyes are bright I cann't see much wrong, but you know youre own horse best.Worm counts may be usefull. But I think he looks too well to be very worm ridden.Good luck.
 
Well, if that's him now then i would not have any worries to be honest, he is well covered and his coat looks good so that would make me think not cushings (I do not have a lotof experience with cushings but as far as I am aware it affects their coat growth). Remember a horse that is not in work WILL lose muscle, that is perfectly normal and more so if they are kept on flat paddocks, are stabled at all etc as they are not working their back ends.

Feed wise I would maybe look to a veteran mix type thing designed for old horses - oir oldies (25 and 27) do very well on A&Ps Old Faithful - although the 25 yo doesn't really need any feed til winte, the 27yo is a fine TB type do does drop weight, he's on fast fibre at the mo and will prob go on to Old Faithful in the winter again once the grass goes.

As others have said, the best person to ask is the vet - it may be worth supporting his digestion with some pink powder as well, that can work wonders.

i would also try maube leading him out on some walks if you can, it sounds like his lameness is not affecting him as such and he could quite probably do some lead work on the roads which would help build him up a bit and help his tendons. Our TB blew both his tendons in his racing career so has wonderfully bowed tendons on both fronts and some great scars from an accident with a gate! He is sound though (albeit it now a bit stiff on his back end), he too was going to be PTS aged 19 as his owner had nowhere to keep him, he was underweight and had been starved by previous loaners as he was too much of a handful. As said, he is now 27 and still going strong so certainly don't give up on yours yet - ours looked TONNES worse!!!
 
Ditto the others. He's looking good going by that photo.

Can you take one from behind?

I have to say that as he's not in work he is going to lose muscle and his bum will be skinnier. My DWB does the same (she usually looks like a whippet!). Can he be long-reined?

Feed wise I like: sugar beet (good for hind gut); Saracen's Releave and Saracen's Equijewel. The last two are the best I've found for putting on weight without fizz (has worked on the DWB and ex-racers). Has the advantage of being fed in small quantities as well. We fed our mixed Hairy Gang on Speedibeat through the winter and that, with ad lib hay, was all they needed and they were all out 24/7 through all the snow, etc. (but mainly rugged).

But, I think he's looking good and wouldn't be keen to load an old frame with more weight when he doesn't have the muscle to help carry it all.

Can you condition score him?

And for what it's worth, I don't think you're a bad owner at all m'duck :)
 
I would agree he is looking fine, as you need to economise on his feed over winter, I would try the soaked Molsassed sugar beet plus the cheapest horse and pony nuts and / or a vitamin and mineral supplement, I would put him on to his winter diet in September as it is most important that he keeps his current condition. As the winter progresses you can give him a something more suited to a veteran, as the others have suggested.
All horses need a fibre based diet, so ad lib haylage as required, keep an eye on his poop, as this is a big indicator of general health, as is his skin. Use a a medium weight rug on in winter, this will help him to keep warm, and prevent loss of condition.
tbh I don't think he is "unwell", but as you are concerned, you should ask your vet to check him over and rasp his teeth.
Is he shod?. this is one expense you can cut back on, though he will need his feet trimmed instead.
 
Last edited:
from what you were saying I was expecting some manky skinny looking thing! If he were mine looking like that I wouldnt be too concerned, I see what your saying about the back end but he may just have a bony/high croup? an old tb of mine even when fat had angular shaped quarters and he was in hard work, vet just said he was built that way. Looks like youre doing a good job!
 
Your horse looks much better than I expected.
If you think he has cushings,although no obvious signs in photo,be careful with diet.
Avoid sugar and cereal based feeds.High fibre/oil is what he needs.I would contact Allen and Page they are very helpful.They do a veteran feed,which could suit him you could add Alpha oil for a balanced and suitable diet.
Otherwise as has been suggested some exercise ,if he is sound enough,would help build up his back end a bit.
You are doing fine with him :)
 
I agree he doesn't look too bad at all in the photo, and I agree with the other posters who say that horses soon lose muscle tone when they stop work. My mare never looked her age at 18, but suddenly aged within just a couple of months of retiring from been ridden at 19. You can improve his muscle tone with ground excersises and massage techniques - a good book will show you how to do this, I did a one day seminar with Gillian Higgins & she gave us loads of techniques which can help working horses and also retired or box rested horses keep muscles working well. I would recemmend you taking a look at one of her books on massage / pilates type excerses for horses. It is a lovely way to spend time with your horses and they really seem to enjoy it. Don't give up on him yet, sounds like he is lucky to have you caring for him and you are doing a great job.
 
I have to agree i expected that picture to be of a skinny rough haired horse.
form the picture i would be definately moving away from the idea of cushings, the coat is usually the first thing to be affected and that looks like a lovely summer coat. He looks in good condition weightwise however he is lacking muscle, but as not in proper work that will happen. His hind end is angular but that may be his actual build rather than a major problem as you are thinking!
I would love to see pics of your others as if you think that is skinny im guessing your other TBs are probably overweight so you could save yourself a small fortune if you reduced the feed!!
I would advice putting him on a veteran feed as they have all added joint protection things in so that will help him. Sugar beet is great especially for winter although introduce slowly to stop any scouring. Ad lib hay/haylage over winter. Would he like to do more work than he is now do you think? Some horses are bored when retired, maybe thats why he jumps out when the others are out of field? He is jelous
 
HotToddy - the horse looks magnificent.

Take your stress head off - you have nothing to worry about.

To save on your feed bills, I would simplify everything.

So, D&H Build up cubes
Sugar Beat
Alfa A Oil chaff

Sometimes we can make feeding too complicated - which hammers our pocket, and actually achieves little for the horse (although the results on your horse are obvious because he looks so fantastic.)
 
Last edited:
For a horse that is not in work, that is in his twilight years, I would say he looks very well indeed.
You wont get muscle on him if he is not in work, so stop stressing about it.
 
I can't add much to what every-one else has said. Weight-wise he looks good and the lack of muscle is to be expected if he's not working.
We feed our retired cob (who admittedly used to be a good-doer but certainly isn't now) grassnuts, speedibeet and dried grass, with Pink Powder. This has helped her to maintain weight even through last winter's long-lasting snow.
I have found that even a small amount of in-hand exercise can make a huge to difference to muscle development.
I suggest that you ask your vet to condition score him - you'll be more likely to believe the vet than doing it yourself- and then look into cheaper feeding alternatives.
Oldies always cost more to keep than younger horses. If eventually you decide that you can longer afford to keep this horse as you would wish, remember that there are many worse things that can happen to a horse than PTS and that he has already had extra time with you.
 
He looks great for a retired field ornament, I wouldn't worry.

The only thing I would say is, you said he is having a scoop of all those feeds per feed, is that round stubb scoops?

They can only digest 2Kg per meal so feeding anymore will go straight through & not be absorbed. one rond stubb scoop of calm & condition holds 1.5Kg so based on what you are feeding him it is probably more like 3.5 to 4Kg per feed.

Also I was always told not to mix & match too many feeds a balanced diet is much better, I have fed my hard to keep weight on TB Calm & condition with Alfa A oil, topped up with Micronised linseed (fantastic at putting condition on & works out cheaper than buil & glow) Or Alpha Plus this was a complete feed so just added sugarbeet.

When I was struggling with my chaps weight I was pumping feed into him & costing me a fortune, it wasn't untill I sat down & worked it out that I may as well have been chucking half of it straight on the muck heap! I cut his feed down to 2Kg & he still maintained weight, if I needed him to put anymore on he got another meal in the middle of the day.

Also found adding yea sacc supplement helps older horses digest better & would steer clear of really high starch :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top