What would you do? RE: EHV1 Virus

Maesfen

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Should add..including the hunts..who til now have been culprits for spreading it

That's very unfair. It was not the hunts that spread it rather that visitors to that pack brought it with them to that area; they are the culprits, not the hunt. The hunts acted responsibly by cancelling meets as soon as they knew.
 

Roasted Chestnuts

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I think you would be foolish to go. I'm not getting where people are saying over-reaction on this thread but on the strangles thread people were getting very vehement about not going out and about.

This disease can kill just the same as strangles can and just goes to show in the case of the aberdeenshire breakout that distance isn't an issue if you go to events :(

I havd a friend looking to borrow my trailer to go to scope qualifiers as her lorry is getting refurbed and I'm not comfortable now due to this as trailer will be coming back to my yard :(
 

Skipadeedooda

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I don't think it's an over reaction - why would you intentionally put your horse and others at risk unnecessarily?! There will always be another show. I am absolutely delighted to see the responsible attitude of all the yards in Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire and they have the full backing of the horsey community. This way it can be contained then everyone can get back to enjoying the remainder of the show calendar. If people just take action in the short term it will benefit everyone long term and get shows back on schedule sooner than if venues and people keep taking the risk which could see the whole show season badly affected and worse more horses!
 

ester

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Well I am certainly not 'ignorant' as someone suggests :rolleyes:, I work with viruses on a daily basis fwiw. Which is why I am coming at this from an actual chances of transmission viewpoint.

As I said earlier my over reaction comment is more with people that are really worried when they are 40/50 miles from the Gloucestershire outbreak (when they were a similar distance from the N. Devon cases but hadn't even heard about it then). I also think it unlikely with the information so far that the Aberdeen case gives any indication of the distance this virus can 'travel'. Much more likely that it was latent in that particular animal/another local animal and then been transmitted.
 

Louise_88

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I am no where near any of the outbreaks but I shall not be going out with my horses - I'm lucky there kept at home but I also ride others at different yards (thankfully all private small yards). I don't see how anyone can be over reacting, it's not a bad thing to be cautious surely?
I thought the problem with the current outbreaks is that it is the neurological virus and not just the milder EHV? Which you can vaccinate against? (I'm not a vet so don't know the correct terms)
 

Roasted Chestnuts

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Ester just a question then, in your working opinion then a horse who travels to an area where there are other horses, possibly from an area of outbreak, in the ring with others, being worked in, cannot possibly catch an airbourne agent? All the warms ups I've ever been in horses have been close enough to snort on each other when passing, maybe england is different.
 

ester

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well given that the virus cannot travel far outside of a horse, and if there are therefore no possible routes of transmission I think confining everyone to barracks as some are extolling is an over reaction.

BB we cross posted, I think that depends on whether we trust people with horses within area/with possible contact to not be going out really. Its more that everyone else would likely be ok if they weren't. I think Lecs vet's statement on a previous thread suggested that a warm up environment would be unlikely to result in viral transmission. I only work on human respiratory viruses atm and obviously they are all different but I just wanted people to know where I was coming from with my thoughts rather than just suggesting they all go out and not worry about their horses regardless (I'm not that awful :eek: just sometimes surprised at the panic/scaremongering that seems to occur within the equine-owning population at some diseases 'outbreaks').
 
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Roasted Chestnuts

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Ahhh right :)

I'm not up for scaremongering, I'm also not one for freaking out at horse viruses/diseases as unfortunately these things happen and what will be will be etc.

I wouldn't travel my horse to somewhere if I knew there was an outbreak or if I lived in an area of an outbreak I'd be watchful. I was just interested in the whole strangles furore and the hell that poster got and the difference in this thread :)
 

ester

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yup I'm not sure whether I'd travel to hartpury if I was out of area, though probably more because of the stabling issues as much as anything- (as he isn't a SJer though we're ok on that front).
 

Christmas Crumpet

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All I can say is that a friend of mine has a horse with the neurological strain of EHV1 and its been the longest 8 weeks of her life. Her horse is looking unlikely to ever recover fully and she is heartbroken.

It is just so unfortunate that her horse was in the wrong place at the wrong time and ended up contracting it.

Having seen first hand how awful this disease is, I wouldn't risk going anywhere near a reported outbreak in a month of Sundays.
 

naza

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See, now i have spoken to my vet and he has given the green light to go, he said that obviously he cannot say 100% that i wouldnt get it BUT thats the same risk to any competition you go to, he said you never know what a strange horse may be carrying and this has only become an issue because people are now made aware of it, he said "ignorance is bliss'.
:/
 

Marydoll

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See, now i have spoken to my vet and he has given the green light to go, he said that obviously he cannot say 100% that i wouldnt get it BUT thats the same risk to any competition you go to, he said you never know what a strange horse may be carrying and this has only become an issue because people are now made aware of it, he said "ignorance is bliss'.
:/

See i find the ignorance is bliss attitude from a vet really disheartening, id have far preferred them to tell you best how to reduce the risks associated with the transmission of this disease and how to beef up your bio security to keep everyone, especially your horse safe.
 

naza

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he did tell me how to act when i was there etc (like staying away from others as much as is possible) and the bio security that hartpury have out in place. i just didnt post our whole conversation.
and sorry didnt mean he said comment in a bad way, i meant it that he said that things (virus etc) are always 'around' but because people dont know about them they carry on regardless, but the risks are still there.
 

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My local RC team is going, not only that but they are running a clear round xc at the local BE course where one team horse is part of 40+ liveries at the venue a week later, the following day half the team will compete at the re-scheduled Great Witchingham BE and a week later the same team going to Hartpury will compete in the BRC Eventer trial qualifier! When I questioned a team member they said someone at some point will bring it to East Anglia so why should it stop them competing. And this said by a doctor!!!!!!
There is so much conflicting advice about now I'm just glad it's not a decision I've got to make.
 

china

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Having spoken to our vet, we are reassured that we can continue competing. The horses at badminton that have caught it all share the same airspace in terms of stables so there is no ventilation. You would have to be in very close proximity to catch it. Just be responsible, not allow your horse direct contact with others, the precautions you would normally take when our competing.
If you were to blood test horses that were abit off colour or flat, 9/10 it shows a strain of herpes in the results. Our vets push for the herpes vaccine in big race yards or event yards where horses are on an off the yard on a daily basis and tension and stress is high.
 

Maesfen

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That's OK then China. Just be very aware that it can spread from contact with clothes too so make sure you don't brush up against anyone at all which might be hard to guarantee in a crowd.
 

Delicious_D

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I personally will be boycotting events until there is a redcution in the number of cases. This means i wont be going as a spectator nor accompanying a horse.

I am also very relieved to have moved dee off a competition yard, because right now i would be handing my notice in and moving her somewhere more secluded.
 

Pipkin

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If dee is at home and no other horses are brought in (without quarantine) how would she catch it though? but I can understand being careful re the preggers bit- but most of us dont have preggers mares.

Naza I can understand your concern, hartpury is much closer to down my way which is where I have been more surprised at peoples reactions given the distance we are away. Can also understand centers being a bit more careful when they have animals on site that aren't easily isolated from those competing.

Majority of horses are carriers, it's passed from their dam but not all shed the virus. My mare never had contact with other horses apart from my own and she is still recovering from the neuro strain Equine Herpes Myeloencephalopathy. The hospital said that due to my ******** neighbour trying to poison my mare it triggered the virus. Currently on month 4 of recovery.
 

scarymare

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Confused (and I have an MSc Microbiology before anyone rants).

I thought the neurological strain was different from the abortion strain although understand there can be crossing over.

Also surely all viruses like this are endemic. I'm in Aberdeenshire and strikes me its a massive over-reaction? Surely as there are probably many, many undiagnosed and reported cases then the only way to stop this or any other virus spreading is to 'lock down' for ever????

What good will 2 weeks do?

Certainly not an expert on this virus so happy for any scientific enlightenment.
 

Pipkin

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Confused (and I have an MSc Microbiology before anyone rants).

I thought the neurological strain was different from the abortion strain although understand there can be crossing over.

Also surely all viruses like this are endemic. I'm in Aberdeenshire and strikes me its a massive over-reaction? Surely as there are probably many, many undiagnosed and reported cases then the only way to stop this or any other virus spreading is to 'lock down' for ever????

What good will 2 weeks do?

Certainly not an expert on this virus so happy for any scientific enlightenment.

In all honesty none of my other 5 horses were infected by my mare. When she came home from the hospital where she was quarantined for a week the vets said it would be fine to stable her with the others, which it was.
 

Maesfen

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If dee is at home and no other horses are brought in (without quarantine) how would she catch it though? but I can understand being careful re the preggers bit- but most of us dont have preggers mares.

But it's not only pregnant mares that can catch this, that is the whole point. Yes, they can be the most vulnerable but that wasn't the reason a NH yard lost five horses to it recently and as you know, Pipkin's horse is still in recovery. Besides are you really saying it doesn't matter to you because you don't have pregnant mares?
Any horse can catch or carry it; YOU can carry it on your clothes and you only have to brush up against someone whose horse is a carrier to carry it to your yard which wouldn't make you very popular with fellow liveries or clients if it caused another shut down.
Surely the most aggressive and responsible way to combat this is to shut down all events for a month to be on the safe side else you might find this will be hanging on all summer and disrupting any equine event for months to come.
 

scarymare

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But it's not only pregnant mares that can catch this, that is the whole point. Yes, they can be the most vulnerable but that wasn't the reason a NH yard lost five horses to it recently and as you know, Pipkin's horse is still in recovery. Besides are you really saying it doesn't matter to you because you don't have pregnant mares?
Any horse can catch or carry it; YOU can carry it on your clothes and you only have to brush up against someone whose horse is a carrier to carry it to your yard which wouldn't make you very popular with fellow liveries or clients if it caused another shut down.
Surely the most aggressive and responsible way to combat this is to shut down all events for a month to be on the safe side else you might find this will be hanging on all summer and disrupting any equine event for months to come.

But Pipkin's horse had a different strain????
 

Maesfen

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But they can and do cross over if the circumstances are right (for the virus that is). Who is to know what those circumstances are; if we did it would be far easier to judge what needs to be done.
 

Pipkin

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But Pipkin's horse had a different strain????

Equine herpes myeloencephalopathy (EHM), is a relatively uncommon manifestation of EHV-1

This may help http://www.aphis.usda.gov/vs/nahss/equine/ehv/equine_herpesvirus_brochure_2009.pdf

I'm on month 4 of research and still can't figure much out. All I know is my girl is unlikely to ever come right again.
EHV batters the immune system, I've gone from having a horse who has never had a sick day to having infection after infection, raging mud fever from pastern to stifle, filled legs, eye infections, colic. I've nearly called it a day many times, I was on the phone to the vet at 2am asking her to bring the gun but my girl got up and started eating. Everytime I think this is it she gets that little bit better. Am currently battling eye infection after finally clearing mud fever. After dropping 200kgs we've got 80kgs back.
In my opinion its not worth the risk, Ayla is worthless compared to the competition horses that are at risk but to me she is my life and I would never risk her or any of my others again, I haven't been near another horse since this has happened, I wont go to sales, don't buy second hand tack or rugs.
The majority of horses already have it, it just takes one thing to trigger it
 
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foraday

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Personally it IS all about choice and how informed you are BUT!

Of course DEFRA and the vets are not going to call a massive shut down of events due to the sue or be sued culture we are in.

BD are making an effort at having a vet in attendance at events checking horses BUT this is not fool proof!

EHV-1 can only be detected by a nasal swab or 2 blood tests 7 days apart.

In ANY livery yard of 30+ horses there will always be 1 or 2 carriers just like the strangles virus.

I HOPE competition yards ARE steam cleaning and disinfecting in between shows. Certainly the yard we visited the other week in this 'bio security' had not cleaned out from the previous show NOR steam cleaned or put around vircon S AND after the show again nothing has been done!!! Hopeless situation really!

Personally I am keeping my comp ponys at home.

It's not just about keeping away from other horses, how do you keep away from a horse who blows down his nose quite innocently and sends his nasal drops over 30 foot in the air???? Unless you become 'bubble boy' like that film and change bubble when you get to your horses it is NOT going to work.

Unless you keep your tools under lock and key again someone using your tools will pass any virus.

And if competition centres are NOT doing proper bio security and having disinfectant mats at EVERY ENTRANCE for competitions and spectators to walk through there seriously is no point.

Again it IS down to personal choice.

Those struck down with this terrible virus I do feel for you
 

SO1

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I think there is more risk if you are staying overnight than if you are not as if you are not staying overnight you can try and keep out of the way as much as possible from other horses and there is less risk of someone else touching your horse.

In the stables blocks you can't guarantee someone will not be stroking your horses nose and potentially passing on the virus.

I think it is a difficult decision to make with the championships but I suppose it depends if you trust that the other competititors will not be bringing a horse that has been exposed to a sick horse recently even if their horse is fit and well and if you have mares in foal on your yard or not.

The virus does seem to be contained somewhat as it seems those people who compete or hunt and are affected by it seem like responsible people.
 
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