What would you do with this horse?

It’s always worth having videos to look back on / compare. @Michen remember vets have to cover their backs these days and as previously said they’ll not be wanting to take risks, but in your shoes l’d be cracking on in an appropriate way. Good luck 😀
 
I dunno guys. I just walked him on this loop and even on this downhill he gets kind of stressy. Nippy, rushes or slows right down. Just doesn’t seem right and to me it seems like pain but I also take the vets point that if he finds it hard cos neuro then that could explain the behavior too. And it’s hard to say it could be pain when he seems very sound. I can kind of “make” him walk sensibly and politely with lots of half halts but I’m not sure that’s the point. And “stabby” as she said going up.

I don’t think this hill should be much of an ask.

I’m a bit tempted to do a pain relief trial with the meds my Colorado vet sent me with. Not as effective as bute and would need to be limited on the time he has it but it could be interesting to see if two days of it or so makes any difference.

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Stifles can be sore going downhill, if hes still growing and not working the ligaments could be slack

Did she examine his eyes, distorted vision can affect where he puts his feet , especially when on a non level surface

Theres no indepth mention if his feet, ie heel depth in relation to the toe, my slight fumbler one had very short toes and deep heels sometimes he broke over too quickly and sort of knuckled, corrected angles lower heels and slightly longer toes stopped that, i thought he was a bit neuro at one point, but fine now

The rescue has taken years to reach his maturity and outgrow several small things that just had to be figured out
 
Michen said:
I dunno guys. I just walked him on this loop and even on this downhill he gets kind of stressy. Nippy, rushes or slows right down. Just doesn’t seem right and to me it seems like pain but I also take the vets point that if he finds it hard cos neuro then that could explain the behavior too. And it’s hard to say it could be pain when he seems very sound. I can kind of “make” him walk sensibly and politely with lots of half halts but I’m not sure that’s the point. And “stabby” as she said going up.

I don’t think this hill should be much of an ask.

I’m a bit tempted to do a pain relief trial with the meds my Colorado vet sent me with. Not as effective as bute and would need to be limited on the time he has it but it could be interesting to see if two days of it or so makes any difference.

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Exactly the behaviour the hooligan showed as a youngster. Stifles for us and apparently very common in younger horses.

Have you got any Tellington Touch practitioners in your area? That methodology came about through helping EPM horses but can be applied to any horse
 
Are you working on his proprioception in your groundwork? I have a horse that cannot walk in a straight line and used to frequently knock into herself. I don't think there's anything neuro going on (although she is unlevel behind) she's just very uncoordinated. My field is steep and for a while she couldn't trot downhill without either standing on herself or tripping, but if ridden and held together she could. I have spent quite some time working on her body awareness and movement patterns and she now gallops down the hill and no longer regularly knocks herself.

It makes for a much more pleasant ride, especially as there are some pretty steep hills around here. Maybe not as steep as yours, but topped with slippery tarmac and rough stones.
 
His bodyworker does always say he has tight hamstrings. He's in a fair bit of work, 6 days a week albiet mostly groundwork. A mixture of poles, cavelleti, long reining, he's recently been starting to do much more canter work and that's been really coming along (he was bucking into canter and now doesn't, his leads and pretty spot on- etc etc).

He's a little chubby but not terrible.

I think I'm fairly set on a plan, I think I should move him to the place with a hilly pasture, herd, out 24/7 and they can also do groundwork with him 3 days a week and I'll do the other 3 just to keep his waistline in check at least. It's certainly not fancy, no indoor floodlit arena and round pen but I think it'll give him a much more natural lifestyle and a good shot and finding his own feet and improving or not- and giving me an answer either way.
 
Beausmate said:
Are you working on his proprioception in your groundwork? I have a horse that cannot walk in a straight line and used to frequently knock into herself. I don't think there's anything neuro going on (although she is unlevel behind) she's just very uncoordinated. My field is steep and for a while she couldn't trot downhill without either standing on herself or tripping, but if ridden and held together she could. I have spent quite some time working on her body awareness and movement patterns and she now gallops down the hill and no longer regularly knocks herself.

It makes for a much more pleasant ride, especially as there are some pretty steep hills around here. Maybe not as steep as yours, but topped with slippery tarmac and rough stones.
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Yes- he does plenty of backing up, poles, lateral work, the lot. With a very good classical dressage trainer half the week and me the other half. He's very good at it.

Trainer was shocked he was branded as neurological given his abilities on the above.

But he does also do funky things sometimes too, could be a baby thing, could not be.
 
Michen said:
Here’s the vet report I just got. I did think she had said that she was happy with his cross stepping and she felt it was acceptable but this reads a little different I guess.

Just toured the other barn. Very rustic, great pasture, very direct and straightforward French manager who would also be happy to do some ground work with him. It would be a third of the cost of my current board, certainly no frills. I’m thinking it could be a good half way house between a retirement home but somewhere still where I could do some things with him and see how he goes.


Exam

On examination, Atlas was bright and willing, with behavior consistent with a young, inexperienced horse. At the walk and during flat evaluation, there was mild right-sided stiffness on circles to the right, but no consistent lameness identified.

Neurologic exam revealed appropriate backing and tail pull responses after initial learning behavior. Tight circle work showed mild inconsistency with crossing behind, with occasional delayed or stilted steps that could represent a mild deficit versus training-related difficulty. When evaluated over poles, the horse demonstrated appropriate limb placement and awareness, with only occasional contact of rails. On hill work, abnormalities were more apparent and repeatable, including a short, “stabby” stride when moving uphill and a less coordinated, “floaty” gait with inconsistent foot placement when moving downhill. No clear evidence of foot soreness or primary lameness was identified.

Summary

Mild and somewhat inconsistent neurologic deficits are present, most notably exacerbated during incline and decline work. Examination on flat ground is largely within normal limits for a young horse, but the repeatable abnormalities on hills raise concern for residual neurologic dysfunction. The most likely etiology is residual deficits from prior Equine Protozoal M. Other differentials include cervical vertebral stenotic myelopathy, hindlimb mechanical issues such as stifle or hock dysfunction, or less likely foot pain. Given the timeline of approximately one year since treatment, prognosis for complete neurologic recovery is guarded.

Plan

Recommend continued conservative management with a focus on conditioning and strengthening, particularly with

controlled hill work on mild inclines, followed by reassessment for improvement or persistence of deficits. Additional diagnostics may be pursued depending on intended use and owner goals, including repeat EPM titers with or without CSF analysis, serum vitamin E levels, and cervical radiographs. Safety considerations for riding, especially on steep or uneven terrain, were discussed. A recheck examination is recommended in 2–3 months if the horse remains in work. Referral for a second opinion and advanced neurologic evaluation at UC Davis is available if desired. Long-term
management decisions, including suitability for intended use or alternative placement, should be considered based on progression and safety.
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You might be shocked at the difference large hilly turnout does for him over the next few months. You can do all the in hand hill work you want but it just really can’t compete with hilly turnout that’s got some real acreage to it. Also my guy lived out 24/7 during the summer in a grazing muzzle and was no worse for wear. It made him walk even more so he stayed in even better condition lol I did put sheepskin cover on it. You’re also still really early out from treatment of epm. That can take a while to really get them where they can be confident in their steps again. Vet reports also usually sound worse than the convos with the vet. They are more clinical and try to avoid biases
 
I think what you’re suggesting sounds like a really sensible next step to see how he copes in a larger, more varied turnout area with friends whilst still being close enough to do some groundwork to help his waistline and keep his muscle tone and how he copes with all that might answer some questions about how he’s going to manage in the long term.
 
The vet report seems pretty standard to me. It is guarded in that they don't want to be definite about anything, but it does say that in the arena, he is within normal parameters and out on the hill he is funky and that what funkiness is there is mild and inconsistent. I also read it as crack on sensibly and see what happens.

I also see it as a positive that it is as a result of an illness and she is talking about what chances of recovery are as opposed to deterioration.
 
I think all written vet reports are totally guarded for their insurance purposes these days and I take some of them with a large grain of salt. I would much rather have a knock-down, drag-out conversation with a vet I totally trust and then make my decision from there so maybe a video to your UK vet might be helpful to you.

I am glad you have decided to move him - apart from the fact that it seems a much more natural environment for a young horse (muzzle notwithstanding!!) you just don't know until you try and you really have nothing to lose. Look forward to hearing reports of his progress.
 
The new place sounds ideal for strengthening him up and if he can't cope or gets worse you'll have your answer.

I don't think the vet report reads too badly (maybe I've seen too many!). But I also think if your gut is telling you not to ride him then don't discount that. It could well be young horse strength, stifle issues - very common - but taking time out to see if he improves will stop you having that little voice asking "what if". Especially if you're paying someone else to ride him (extra responsibility etc)
 
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