What would you do?

[Tinypony]

I've got experience of a very similar horse I think. The only thing to do was to really let him chill down and be a horse, then rebuild him from there. That's not hacking, that's turning him out with friends and just visiting him with apples, maybe taking him out for a groom, but putting no pressure on at all. It was a long road and to be honest, I've come to the conclusion that he'll never be safe to take out competing, although he loves a bit of a jump for fun in the field. He also loves to hack, but can be dangerously unpredictable if he's not in company.
So many people, including professional trainers, see a horse like this and think only of what can be "done" to "fix" it. A couple of great horsemen advised me that my horse had to be allowed to remember what it was like to just be a horse again, and they were right.
It was a long haul, and if you were to go that route I think you'd need to be prepared for the possibility that, no matter what his physical potential, he might never be mentally capable of dealing with the stress of competition again. It's a gamble.

 

[lula]

I think some of these replies are very harsh. Riding IS meant to be fun, we pour so much of our money, time and energy into these big animals and a situation such as this can be totally soul-destroying. Of course, if and when it comes right, it's the best thing in the world and all the worry and heartache is worth it, but it seems to me to be very cruel to question the motives of someone who is clearly in a bit of a quandary.
For those who say that a horse is for life, in an ideal world of course it is. However not everyone has the luxury of being able to collect horses and keep them forever.
It is clear from the original post that the OP cares very much for this horse, has tried everything and wants to do all she can to ensure he has a happy and secure future.
OP I don't really have any bright ideas not already mentioned, but I really, really hope you find the answer.

i second this.

i dont think pts was actually an option the OP wanted to consider 'Rachmcahypixie'.
In fact, if you read the thread properly - something you dont seem to do well - the OP did say she'd only had the horse 3.5 years, she also said that being pts was an option suggested to her but not one she wanted to take and was asking for other posters advice..

still, it must get a little vertiginous up there on your moral high ground but you could at least try not to be so damn judgemental.

 

[PercyMum]

Sorry my mistake - go put him to sleep then - he's only 9 - you need something to ride - so consentrate on that!

Again, uncalled for. He IS NOT going to be put down, so please just go and be nasty somewhere else.

 

[PercyMum]

I think some of these replies are very harsh. Riding IS meant to be fun, we pour so much of our money, time and energy into these big animals and a situation such as this can be totally soul-destroying. Of course, if and when it comes right, it's the best thing in the world and all the worry and heartache is worth it, but it seems to me to be very cruel to question the motives of someone who is clearly in a bit of a quandary.
For those who say that a horse is for life, in an ideal world of course it is. However not everyone has the luxury of being able to collect horses and keep them forever.
It is clear from the original post that the OP cares very much for this horse, has tried everything and wants to do all she can to ensure he has a happy and secure future.
OP I don't really have any bright ideas not already mentioned, but I really, really hope you find the answer.

Thank you very much. I do love him very much and I am on here to try and find a way forward because I cannot for the life of me think of what else I can try. So far, I am thinking turning away is my only option.

 

[PercyMum]

Has anyone suggested thermal imaging?

Scatty_Mare, I have never heard of this. What is it? Does the vet do it?

Also, animal communicator? Is that someone who 'talks to animals'? I'll give it a go! Do you have any contact details?

 

[amage]

Thanks - he has the physio every 3 weeks atm, and we were given the all clear to try jumping again. I only jumped 3 small cross poles and he went mad after all of them. Have not tried it again since (funny old thing). Physio came straight out and checked back - all fine. See why its such a headscratcher!!??

To be honest if a horse has had this much time off I would fully expect it to be loopy first time jumping in ages. We schooled on of the racehorses last week for first time this season and he bucked like a bull and went mental...nothing physical just high spirits and yahooing! i would be looking for a good old fashioned nag man who has no emotional attachment and ask them to work with him to get him going and riding, jumping etc. I am not saying you can't do it but I find with horses when we are so emotionally involved we can struggle to work through especially when we know historical issues etc

 

[SusieT]

'I only jumped 3 small cross poles and he went mad after all of them'
That's not a surprise, one of mine would go bonkers if I jumped him currently, and if anyone with less experience was to sit on him (I have no idea of your experience) they would be tanker, and quite probably remove himself from the arena.
Does that mean he's a lost cause? No. Just that jumping is incredibly exciting and he needs schooled into remembering whos in control, cantering/trotting over a jump in a 20m circle is often useful for solving this, but depends on his physical capabilities I suppose.
So it would depend on who was riding him. Have you tried pro schooling? Often provides a solution the average rider cannot do, not a reflection on your experience and not too expensive for a month in the long run.

 

[be positive]

It is really going round in circles you have done as much as you can for a very difficult horse, I would think that if you turn away it needs to be just that, it will mean finding somewhere else for him to go, there are retirement/turnaway grass livery places where he would not be seeing other horses coming in and he could get used to the dark.
You obviously do not want to pts but are running out of ideas, the only other option I can put forward, but it will be more money, would be someone like Tim Piper who does a lot of work with "problem" horses, he takes them back to basics gets them hacking and can cope with tantrums, he is not rough but firm and fair and will look at the complete picture,I know he is very well regarded .

 

[SophieLouBee]

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=490552&highlight=rearing

Send him to this guy? Or find someone like him?

I have a feeling I might be at a similar place with a clients horse when we go back to work in Dec, after KSS. No where near as bad as what you are going through though I hope, I think we will see 'the other side' eventually. I hope you do too, whatever it may be

 

[rachmacypixie111]

The reason I kicked off about PHT - was because it was mentioned in the first place - you wouldnt even mention it if it wasnt an option!

There is other options before you mention them words.

So all kick off with me if you like - I was going off words mentioned - so don't tell me this was never an option!

 

[lula]

The reason I kicked off about PHT - was because it was mentioned in the first place - you wouldnt even mention it if it wasnt an option!

There is other options before you mention them words.

So all kick off with me if you like - I was going off words mentioned - so don't tell me this was never an option!

yes, i noticed the words 'PTS' seems to set you off like a raging rhino on heat where ever you see them.
Perhaps if you tried actually reading the words either side of them that make up the sentences, it would put it in context and you wouldnt fly off the handle so much just because you haven't bothered to read properly.

 

[Trinity Fox]

If I have read this correctly you bought a well bred dressage horse cheaply who had a breakdown, was this an injury or a meantal block for the horse?

He then later had kissing spine surgery and you are expecting him to be jumping happily with no issues, well sorry you bought the wrong horse.
This is all in a three year timescale, not really realistic to then say need to pts timescale on top.

If you are going to take on horses who clearly need rehab then this is what you will face people do not sell cheap dressage horses unless they need intensive care.

I have not read back on your other posts so maybe you have taken on something more than you realised, hopefully this will let people know horses taken on with problems health or tricksy as you described are just that.

 

[melxvengeance]

You mentioned you tried to hack him & this didn't work, but said he is a dream to handle. Have you tried taking him on walks, just leading him?

Just a thought, don't think anyone else has suggested it. Just to bond with him, maybe make him realise that hacking & doing a little of work doesn't need to be stressful.

 

[Trinity Fox]

Forgot to say if he will lead happily off another horse but will not hack with others then it seems the rider is the problem, so lots of avenues to investigate there.

 

[jeeve]

I too would consider turnout, but first get an NH/IH person to come and discuss the issues you are having with him. If they are behavour related issues rather than soundness, they should be able to help you with these.

If you can get assistance to sort him out, and try a new approach, then it may start being more fun, and you may start making progress with him.

Alternatively you can turn him out immediately, this may help if it is a soundness issue, that time off will assist. It may give you more time to think about things.

I would think though that if you had an assessment from someone one that may give you time to think about an approach, even if he sits in a paddock for a while.

 

[Chavhorse]

i would be looking for a good old fashioned nag man who has no emotional attachment and ask them to work with him to get him going and riding, jumping etc. I am not saying you can't do it but I find with horses when we are so emotionally involved we can struggle to work through especially when we know historical issues etc

This!

My horse had a bad accident aged 4 needed 8 months paddock rest and re-starting from scratch. The trainer who re-started him did a great job to a point but when it came to pushing him past a certain line he was far too hung up with the history (I was as bad I am not abdicating responsibility here) and everything was passed off with "oh it's his back" "or the emotional trauma" or "remembered pain".

In July I sent him over to my old friend who is just a good old fashioned horsewoman, no frills, no fannying about just good old common sense and suddenly he is bitted, hacking out in a group, schooling well and been taken all over the place as a companion to her competition horse. He is doing so well that he has been entered for the Winter Dressage league and was used yesterday as a lesson horse for her Stage III students.

I sent him to her with his medical history but the only riding history she wanted was "does he try to bog off when you are getting on"

I think the difference was she treated him as the horse she had on the day and rode what she had ,no agenda, no history, no emotional baggage.

May or may not with you but certainly worked for me and I am delighted with the results.

 

[ischa]

Try seeking help from Jason Webb he is a brilliant Australian
Horse trainer and deals with horses like this everyday , his staff are really helpful too
I phoned up and explained to them a problem I had , and they gave me idears to try , to try and resolve it
It did work and I went on to successful do the job I intended to do with my horse
It doesn't hurt to do a phone call
Failing that know one has surrgested to you is to reback him
Give him a year off and bring him back like a 3 yr lunge , longreining , to progressing to longrein out and to drive him forwards this may start to make him independed, then I would have someone lean on him , then progressing to sitting etc etc
I think you basically got to go back to square one
, if he is physically ok , then it's the mental side of things your going to have to deal with , maybe he socialises pain when being ridden ,this hasn't really be address till up till you got him so really in all the time old owners have had him has he been in pain , makes you wonder ??

 

[Chavhorse]

Try seeking help from Jason Webb he is a brilliant Australian
Horse trainer and deals with horses like this everyday , his staff are really helpful too
I phoned up and explained to them a problem I had , and they gave me idears to try , to try and resolve it
It did work and I went on to successful do the job I intended to do with my horse
It doesn't hurt to do a phone call
Failing that know one has surrgested to you is to reback him
Give him a year off and bring him back like a 3 yr lunge , longreining , to progressing to longrein out and to drive him forwards this may start to make him independed, then I would have someone lean on him , then progressing to sitting etc etc
I think you basically got to go back to square one
, if he is physically ok , then it's the mental side of things your going to have to deal with , maybe he socialises pain when being ridden ,this hasn't really be address till up till you got him so really in all the time old owners have had him has he been in pain , makes you wonder ??

Ischa - Indeed if all is physically right then it does sound like a mental issue.

We had a lot of problems with my boy with "remembered pain" you would ask him to do something and get a real reaction until he realised "oh I can do it and it doesn't hurt" but it took so much patience. When we restarted him we spent 6 months on the double lines, and did everything he would be asked under saddle on them. Also found he needed a days work and a day off to think about it at first too much to think about and it fried his brain,

 

[PercyMum]

Thankyou - restarting and going to NH isn't something I had really considered but is certainly an avenue I could try. I'll look up Jason Webb online a bit later.

He has no soundness issues and when I bought him, I did not know he had issues to this level. Just that he hated the dressage yard for some reason (i didnt buy him from there). I am an experienced rider and owner and everyone who has looked at him has said it is not me that is the problem. I really wish it was as then could work on it!! The best way to put the problem is that he just gets offended by everything, then panics. This happens whatever approach I take, and its getting worse, not better.

FWIW, I have done nothing with this horse that has not been cleared by his vet, the surgeon who operated on him and the physio. So please stop bashing me about expecting him to jump 18 months after surgery as they all said that it was time to start. And his major issues are on the flat, not jumping but he has got worse to jump. Prior to the op he was jumping 1.20 with ease and was very happy! The only reason that we had the vert in was because he wouldn't hold an outline on the flat (but did when jumping). I was going to send him to an experienced lady to reschool, then give me lots of lessons so we could be a bit more 'together'. However, I thought it best to get him checked out before he went. Ii had all joints and his back x-rayed as a precaution. The KS then showed up and I was advised that surgery was my only real option as it was quite bad.

So those of you trying to paint me as some kind of pushy monster, I most certainly am not - I just want a happy horse, and it would be nice to ride him! I might add that when we go to tack up, the ears are forward, eyes are bright and he opens his mouth for the bit. He hacks up to the school and walks around and he seems just fine. Then we start trot/canter, and thats when it all starts to go wrong and the panicking starts...

 

[millitiger]

I will go against the grain and say I wouldn't turn him away as I don't see what the benefit would be for this particular horse.

I would do a lot of research and get lots of recommendations and find a real horseman to take him on and see if there is any improvement at all in 6-8 weeks and go from there.

Obviously it will cost money but imo would be much more worthwhile than chucking him in a field for the winter.

 

[Chavhorse]

Thankyou - restarting and going to NH isn't something I had really considered but is certainly an avenue I could try. I'll look up Jason Webb online a bit later.

He has no soundness issues and when I bought him, I did not know he had issues to this level. Just that he hated the dressage yard for some reason (i didnt buy him from there). I am an experienced rider and owner and everyone who has looked at him has said it is not me that is the problem. I really wish it was as then could work on it!! The best way to put the problem is that he just gets offended by everything, then panics. This happens whatever approach I take, and its getting worse, not better.

FWIW, I have done nothing with this horse that has not been cleared by his vet, the surgeon who operated on him and the physio. So please stop bashing me about expecting him to jump 18 months after surgery as they all said that it was time to start. And his major issues are on the flat, not jumping but he has got worse to jump. Prior to the op he was jumping 1.20 with ease and was very happy! The only reason that we had the vert in was because he wouldn't hold an outline on the flat (but did when jumping). I was going to send him to an experienced lady to reschool, then give me lots of lessons so we could be a bit more 'together'. However, I thought it best to get him checked out before he went. Ii had all joints and his back x-rayed as a precaution. The KS then showed up and I was advised that surgery was my only real option as it was quite bad.

So those of you trying to paint me as some kind of pushy monster, I most certainly am not - I just want a happy horse, and it would be nice to ride him! I might add that when we go to tack up, the ears are forward, eyes are bright and he opens his mouth for the bit. He hacks up to the school and walks around and he seems just fine. Then we start trot/canter, and thats when it all starts to go wrong and the panicking starts...

I think you are being very sensible and looking at all the options, I also know that no matter how much you care that when you have one that is basically unrideable and especially one who starts to scare you then you do reach the "shall I just sell him as a companion" stage.....I know I did!

Mine sounds very similar to yours, he had been broken in as a 3 year old and in typical dutch style ridden in draw reins to get the frame! as a 4 year old prior to his accident he was fantastic if held in a frame and panicked utterly if not as he had not one degree of self carriage.

Following his accident (he cast himself and was down for many hours with his hind leg caught in the bars of the stable), he was lame for many many months and in all he needed so much time off to heal physically, mentally he had in effect given up to die and it took the same amount of time again to get his head together. He used to do the same as yours, be fine for a while then panic, bolting at wharp speed round the school was his speciality and he scared to me the point I actually put him up for sale.

The only reason I sent him to my friend was because he spectacularly failed the vetting for his prospective purchaser not for any of the injuries from the casting but with horrific side bone in both front feet We had no idea we had been 100% been concentrating on any issues being caused by his casting injuries!). I am luckily that my friend suggested sending him to her on an exercise livery to see how much work he can take and at what level to stay sound.

She started again with him from scratch....lunging him for a month, then just hopping up and getting on with it as I say I do not think she is any more talented than his previous trainer she just has a different attitude, he has been in the past very much hot housed as a youngster and his last trainer was a perfectionist, my friend on the other hand asks for something and if she only gets 50% says a hearty well done and moves on going back to the exercise later and being even more delighted with 55%.

She has had no incidents with the bolting with him at all, in fact he has now been nicknamed "dobbin" whether it is the attitude of the people working with him, the atmosphere of the yard, the work he prefers or the yard has some miracle working lay lines running through it I have no idea but the only thing I do know is different is she has approached him with no emotional investment and just works with him as she would any other of her youngsters.

I think sometimes we have so much invested in our horses especially our more special ones that have been ill or have issues that we can tend to over think and make everything into a big deal, I know I did.

As I say my lad is now hacking out happily and calmly in front or at the back, schooling to Prelim level happily and been out and about with friends competition horse just seeing stuff going to comps as a companion and being ridden about just to let him know that actually life can be really good fun and not at all stressful.

Sorry I have babbled on a lot but just wanted to say I do know where you are coming from and sometimes even though you feel you are getting really good advice sometimes you have to just throw it all up in the air and think out of the box, my old trainer was brilliant, he has done some great work but in hindsight he was not the best trainer for my horse who has obviously needed a far more "ok stop being a drama queen and get on with it" attitude for a long while.

Good luck I know it is a really hard place to be in

 

[Tinypony]

I will go against the grain and say I wouldn't turn him away as I don't see what the benefit would be for this particular horse.

I would do a lot of research and get lots of recommendations and find a real horseman to take him on and see if there is any improvement at all in 6-8 weeks and go from there.

Obviously it will cost money but imo would be much more worthwhile than chucking him in a field for the winter.

It depends if Op thinks the horse had truly had some sort of mental breakdown, which can happen with horses. She's already tried the physical option, by making sure he's physically right and having good trainers try to work him through the problems. I'm sure they wree considered to be "real horsemen". Things are getting worse, not better. The other thing that happens with many trainers is that they don't go right back to basics, but pick up on what they think the problem is. For example, horse is misbehaving when jumping, so look at ways do deal with that. Some very good horsemen (and I think Jason Webb does this) take the horse right back and re-start it as if it's never been ridden. So many times when this is done the original percieved problems go away, because the trigger for them gets dealt with in the back-to-scratch restarting process. If you're going to do this with a horse then surely to goodness the animal could have a bit of a break first.

The horse I was talking about is still in my field. He was my first encounter with a horse that had really had his brains blown by his management and training. He was a complete wreck and although he was being ridden, he was like a timebomb waiting to explode. There are a lot of problem horses out there that have been wrecked by bad handling and training, but a horse that has broken down mentally is different. I think you see it in their eyes, when they flip there is nothing in their eyes, just blankness, they seem to be totally unaware of what is around them and can be a danger to themselves and people because they lose their self-preservation instinct. I'm not saying Op's horse is in this state, but from what she says it sounds as if she thinks he might be.

 

[meesha]

I think you are being very sensible and responsible - you have not tried to sell him on or loan him out to some unsuspecting person and you dont want to pts but instead have spent a load of money on him (and yes money is a consideration it has to be).

Why not concentrate and build on the things he is happy with - you say he doesnt like hacking but is good to lead from another horse - you may feel silly but how about building the leading until he is 100% with it and then tack him up and lead him (if not already doing so) until 100% then put someone on but still lead him and see how he is if ok you may be able to gradually give up the lead rein !

Same with lunging - he likes lunging - have you tried putting trotting poles and cross poles up so that he is jumping on the lunge - again keep doing this until jumping is the norm - then put rider on on the lunge and when happy lunge rider and horse over jumps.

Again not trying to be patronising and I am sure you have already thought of all this but it is so hard when you are emotionally invested

It sounds like you are giving him every chance you can - good luck.

 

[ischa]

Tinypony , you are right alot of trainers try and find a solution to just skip around problem horses but never restart from scratch so truely all the will be doing is masking the problems
True horseman as you say like (Jason webb which I recommended) him restarts all horses . I think this is really the best way as you cant say for sure 2-3 months down the line with normal trainers that the problem will return or they replace it with something else
Paying a bit more for a decent horsemen who isn't going to skip round the problem but face it full on gets my vote
OP I hope you get everything sorted , at least you have a few idears to go with if nothing is solved then consider companion or PTS alot of people may be giving you grief for say that but to me if you have. Ruled out every option to resolve his problems but don't have success then I would consider it a horse of that size is costly even just to be a pet , and selling would not be a option either as it to much of a risk of someone getting hurt or horse sold from pillar to post .

 

[amage]

i agree with millitiger I don't know that turning away is the best option. You are only prolonging the inevitable restarting etc that he needs and given that he seems to be a bit of a stress head I think turning away coming into winter could mean you end up with a fretting horse that won't thrive and you'll end up worse than where you started!

 

[millitiger]

It depends if Op thinks the horse had truly had some sort of mental breakdown, which can happen with horses. She's already tried the physical option, by making sure he's physically right and having good trainers try to work him through the problems. I'm sure they wree considered to be "real horsemen". Things are getting worse, not better. The other thing that happens with many trainers is that they don't go right back to basics, but pick up on what they think the problem is. For example, horse is misbehaving when jumping, so look at ways do deal with that. Some very good horsemen (and I think Jason Webb does this) take the horse right back and re-start it as if it's never been ridden. So many times when this is done the original percieved problems go away, because the trigger for them gets dealt with in the back-to-scratch restarting process. If you're going to do this with a horse then surely to goodness the animal could have a bit of a break first.

The horse I was talking about is still in my field. He was my first encounter with a horse that had really had his brains blown by his management and training. He was a complete wreck and although he was being ridden, he was like a timebomb waiting to explode. There are a lot of problem horses out there that have been wrecked by bad handling and training, but a horse that has broken down mentally is different. I think you see it in their eyes, when they flip there is nothing in their eyes, just blankness, they seem to be totally unaware of what is around them and can be a danger to themselves and people because they lose their self-preservation instinct. I'm not saying Op's horse is in this state, but from what she says it sounds as if she thinks he might be.

You seem to be contradicting yourself a bit or missing what I was saying- I said get a proper horseman and in my mind, that is someone who will go right back to the start.

Personally, I don't see the point in putting the horse is a field first, going by what the OP has said in this particular case.
Lots of horses, imo, are held back and made more nervous and difficult by having a break at an inappropriate stage in their education- if you pick the right person to work with the horse the work they do will not set the horse back.

Obviously it is really impossible for anyone on a forum to give advice as none of us have seem the horse but the OP asked for opinions and I gave mine; I find it a little odd you feel the need to pick my response to pieces and assume that your experience is more relevant than mine but each to their own

 

[Tinypony]

Don't people think that horses sometimes need to let down and be horses? If a horse can have some quiet time with others, it's pretty unlikely that will produce a stressed horse. I'll qualify that by saying that if a horse has got socialisation problems, normally caused by the way it's been kept in the past, it can take a while for it to be able to relax with others. However in Op's case there is no indication of this.
I was very lucky when I came across my "broken down" horse in that shortly after I went to Australia and spent some time with two horsemen who I feel come into the category of really great. Most here won't have heard of him, but I sat down with Phillip Nye and told him all about my new horse, what he did and how he behaved and asked Phillip what he would do. He said I should let him rediscover what it means to be a horse, put him in a field with others and just take him apples. It worked.
I don't really care what Op does, I'm just presenting options. However, when going down the working and retraining route hasn't worked with this horse, what makes people think that more of the same will have a different result? People are talking about getting him to a good trainer, even though they have no idea how "good" the previous trainers were.
After all the time, effort, money and dedication Op has put into this horse I can't see what harm there would be in letting the horse down for a month or two.

Millitiger, we crossed, you say "to my mind" and I'm sorry, I could read your mind. I didn't mean to pick your post to pieces, if giving a different view is considered to be picking someone to pieces that's a shame and I apologise. My experience may or may not be more than yours, I don't really care one way or the other. I'm simply offering Op alternative views.

 

[Chavhorse]

Lots of horses, imo, are held back and made more nervous and difficult by having a break at an inappropriate stage in their education- if you pick the right person to work with the horse the work they do will not set the horse back.

Need a Like Button.

 

[indie999]

I think you are being very sensible and responsible - you have not tried to sell him on or loan him out to some unsuspecting person and you dont want to pts but instead have spent a load of money on him (and yes money is a consideration it has to be).

Why not concentrate and build on the things he is happy with - you say he doesnt like hacking but is good to lead from another horse - you may feel silly but how about building the leading until he is 100% with it and then tack him up and lead him (if not already doing so) until 100% then put someone on but still lead him and see how he is if ok you may be able to gradually give up the lead rein !

Same with lunging - he likes lunging - have you tried putting trotting poles and cross poles up so that he is jumping on the lunge - again keep doing this until jumping is the norm - then put rider on on the lunge and when happy lunge rider and horse over jumps.

Again not trying to be patronising and I am sure you have already thought of all this but it is so hard when you are emotionally invested

It sounds like you are giving him every chance you can - good luck.

This is good advice as is giving the horse a break etc etc. But you sound like you are trying all avenues and you sound like a full caring owner. I think its very harsh for others on here to say oh only 9 years old cant PTS. I know 2 people who were sold dangerous horses etc one was a true fruit cake, and it was given to a huntmaster to try as they started to think they had been overhorsed and the huntmaster agreed it was a nutcase, they could have sold it on but as too dangerous PTS. This was a decent very experienced owner who had advice etc etc. I dont like reading on here about people just dropping horses because its not performing etc but even I can tell you have tried everything and are on here asking for some good advice. I hope you find the solution but you may not as well and its not good to keep putting yourself at risk either. Good luck & good to ask though.(perhaps the sarcastic its only 9 years old will come to help you get the horse right with their advice and ride it).

 

[millitiger]

Don't people think that horses sometimes need to let down and be horses?

Definitely, I don't think a single person on this thread has said otherwise?

I will add a big 'but' though as I feel the break needs to be given at an appropriate time in the horse's life/training otherwise you can exacerbate the issue the horse has.