What would you do? :(

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weefilly88

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I’m in a rubbish situation, please don’t miss-judge me x

Back in Feb I bought (paid peanuts) for an 8 year old WB whom I fell instantly in love with. Problem was he was un-backed had bad conformation / Pigeon Toe. At the time I believed that with a bit of investment, love and attention I could get him to be the horse I wanted, which to be fair was only pleasure ride. The woman I bought him from WAS the owner of 'that Stud' in Kent that has recently been spoken a lot about on here.....he wasn’t in the greatest of conditions and I felt he just needed a chance.

Well …………..several months later and I a few thousand pound poorer my boy is still in the field..... and to top it off he is now lame!

It is now believed that due to his conformation, keeping him sound or in shoes will be impossible (he is currently barefoot). This was confirmed by the second person attempting to break him in for me. She advised me not to invest any more money in him.

He wouldn’t make a good field companion because he isn’t the calmest of horses and can’t go out with mares as he is thought to be a rig.

Do I go down the remedial shooing route to keep him comfortable to just be left out in the field? I cannot afford to keep two horses but feel that as I’m the one that has mucked up I shouldn’t just have him put to sleep although it is the ONLY way I can guarantee his future. It’s pulling me apart. I honestly thought I’d keep him forever.

What would you do? I’m fully expecting to be called all the names under the sun but please be gentle I’ve been a MESS worrying about what to do for the last 5 days.

Xx
 
I cannot see any positives at the moment. The horse is an unbacked rig with poor conformation, which has resulted in him being lame. Unless you know that you can have the problems medically treated, with a good prognosis (i.e. testicle removed, lameness issue resolved) then I do think that there is only one solution to the difficulties this horse faces. Horrible position to be in.
 
Why does his confirmation make him unsound & what has a vet said about his lameness? I'm no expert on barefoot rehab but could he not manage without shoes, & work towards getting his pigeon toed foot sound down the barefoot route? Once sound you'll have more options.
 
Just as a thought, my old rig was great company for babies(colts/geldings) he would be heard leader and keep them in order but at the same time have a play.
Is it worth seeing if anyone needs this sort of companion for boys only?

Otherwise in all honesty if you can't keep him sound I would PTS, not the best outcome and not an easy decision (I am going through this decision myself at the moment) but could well be the best for him??
 
I would go down the remedial shoeing route and see if he comes sound and try to back him again if he does come sound, I would also contact the vet and see what can be done about the rig problem whilst having him on a calmer to try and balance his hormones out abit.

good luck x
 
If you're in Kent then you have access to Bell Equine who have some of the best remedial shoeing specialists in the country. They are also not shy about recommending barefoot if they thought that would be better for the horse, honestly.

It's a horrible position for you to be in. Do you have insurance or are you having to fund this yourself? You don't have to answer me on that but it may make a difference... If you have insurance / sufficient funds then I would call Bell and get him booked in for a full check.

If not then honestly, being quietly PTS is not the worst thing in the world. I don't believe horses think about 'tomorrow'. Without wishing to rub salt into the wounds either an unbacked 8 year old WB which hasn't had the best start in life may well require a fair amount of investment in terms of time, patience and pairs of brave pants to become a genuine 'pleasure ride'.

Good luck with your decision(s).
 
I'd leave unshod with a trim and let him grow his hooves to what supports him. The worst soundness issues I've seen are where farriers have tried to correct long term issues which the horse has grow his hooves to solve. Get a local farrier you trust to say unshod, or shod dependant on horse not work perhaps.

Rigs are fine company for boys, many people don't mix herds anyway. Or as a single companion quite frequently dependant on how riggy. We've had one riggy in a large field of just mares and one in large field of just boys.

If long term unsound I'd pts for the horses sake though, sorry.

Pan
 
YorksG said:
I cannot see any positives at the moment. The horse is an unbacked rig with poor conformation, which has resulted in him being lame. Unless you know that you can have the problems medically treated, with a good prognosis (i.e. testicle removed, lameness issue resolved) then I do think that there is only one solution to the difficulties this horse faces. Horrible position to be in.
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^^ I'd agree with YorksG, it seems you took him on to give him a chance and unfortunately if that chance doesn't work work out then there aren't really any other options, unless he can definitely be sound and happy I'd be making some hard decisions too. :(
 
if what you have put on here is with vets advice i would PTS, if not I would seek vets advice.

I really struggled to keep my mare a couple of yrs ago, but she was (still is) unbacked and seen nothing, I fought so hard to keep because with the current climate I would have PTS's rather than sell as so many are being passed from pillar to post as people situations change. I think if the only way to secure their future is PTS then thats what I would do scary as it is.

they don't know so they don't fear-keep that in mind
 
Thanks for your replies

Before i had him, there was never any real care taken of his feet and has substantial medial flare. As a result he is very very flat footed. After a recent trim is was assumed he was footsore but that is not what it is. I could try the remedial shoeing route and would happily pay for it but my fear IS that with him having the temperament that he has he will have to be sedated just for them to get the shoes on him.

I fear there isn’t really a market for companions at the moment especially when there are some lovely horses out there that would better suit the demand. The thought of him being passed from pillar to post makes me feel sick.

I fear I am answering my own questions here and it is breaking my heart.
 
You can't correct pigeon toes on an eight year old horse. Any remedial shoeing done now will just put pressure on his joints.

Get the vet to test him to see if he's a genuine rig or not, as the answer to that question will have a bearing on his future.
 
Fortunately he is registered with Bell.

I’ve booked him in for an app with David but due to demand and the fact he is on call for HOYS i will have to wait for the 16th October.

I intend to grill him and see what he thinks. He isn’t normally the vet that comes out to him another of the clinics vets usually does.

I to believe that now, putting remedial shooing on him will not only be 'too little too late' but will just a) stress him out b) strain his joints x
 
weefilly88 said:
I to believe that now, putting remedial shooing on him will not only be 'too little too late' but will just a) stress him out b) strain his joints x
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If you use a good farrier who will do it gradually then IMO it will help to support his bad conformation rather then put added strain on his joints, how long has he been lame for? just since his last trim? so he was sound before that? I didnt realise his general behaviour was so bad that he would not allow/ be stressed by having shoes put on
 
Agree re the remedial shoes, but could it be done with remedial barefoot help?
If he can't be made sound though, then I agree pts would be best. Instead of seeing it as failure, look at it from his pov. Even if he can't become right, all the horse knows is that after what sounds like nobody being bothered, he's had 8mnths with somebody who cares for him. Of course its horrid for you, but he doesn't know he's 8, just that he's found someone that puts his needs first. Good luck x
 
Well.....

His behaviour isnt naughty I think he generally is very scared. I dont know whether this is because mentally he is a baby and at 1-2 years old when he should of been experiencing new things he would of been at a managable size/strenghth. Now however, he is too big and too strong!
 
littlelegs said:
Instead of seeing it as failure, look at it from his pov. Even if he can't become right, all the horse knows is that after what sounds like nobody being bothered, he's had 8mnths with somebody who cares for him. Of course its horrid for you, but he doesn't know he's 8, just that he's found someone that puts his needs first. Good luck x
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^^ Good words
 
for a while now he has been 'not quite right' when lunged on one reign and better on the other. He was having pyshio and it was believed that this way was hurting him.

The thought i am holding on to is that as you say after being treated badly he has had anything he could ask for...loved and looked after and had lots of one to one time with someone that loves him very much xx
 
My mare (14yo) is pigeon toed on the fronts, and another at my yard is at the back.
Both are bare foot and my farrier NEVER tries to change the shape of the feet to help them level out, he trims them as normal and they self trim (on the roads, on the concrete yard) to a comfortable shape!

Going barefoot with my mare was the best thing I ever did, so hopefully you can find a way to keep yours barefoot and sound without having to go down the remedial route!

My mare also has lameness issues, she has ringbone, side bones and DJD which her confirmation has more than likely contributed to but after treatment for these and good supplements she is in full work and totally sound!! The vet said he would hold off remedial shoeing for my horse because her confirmation has improved since the shoes have been removed!!

If not then I would have to agree that PTS would probably be my choice as liek you say, it is the only way you can predict his future. If it was me in that position then that is what I would do!
 
weefilly88 said:
for a while now he has been 'not quite right' when lunged on one reign and better on the other. He was having pyshio and it was believed that this way was hurting him.

The thought i am holding on to is that as you say after being treated badly he has had anything he could ask for...loved and looked after and had lots of one to one time with someone that loves him very much xx
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I have to ad, this is how my mares ringbone, sidebones and DJD were diagnosed. Not right on the lunge but not lame for a while after this, and x-rays randomly taken due to lameness appearing (we originally thought the issues were in her shoulder, and she became lame a week before going to the vets) we realised it was infact the bottom of her leg and not her shoulder at all!

a work up at Bell and a discussion on his feet woul definitely be my first port of call!
 
Faracat said:
You can't correct pigeon toes on an eight year old horse. Any remedial shoeing done now will just put pressure on his joints.

Get the vet to test him to see if he's a genuine rig or not, as the answer to that question will have a bearing on his future.
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Agree.

Putting remedial shoes on may make the hoof look straighter and appear to load 'correctly' but looks aren't everything.

The joints will just take a battering and it's likely you'll end up with a hefty bill and more problems.

Medial flare may well have been the hoof's way of supporting the conformation. Interesting that it has been removed and now the horse is lame......
 
weefilly88 said:
Fortunately he is registered with Bell.

I’ve booked him in for an app with David but due to demand and the fact he is on call for HOYS i will have to wait for the 16th October.

I intend to grill him and see what he thinks. He isn’t normally the vet that comes out to him another of the clinics vets usually does.

I to believe that now, putting remedial shooing on him will not only be 'too little too late' but will just a) stress him out b) strain his joints x
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Why are you waiting until the 16th October for a vet to see your lame horse??
 
He has had another vet at Bell see him and another at the training yard he just returned from. So I haven’t waited or just LEFT him lame.

He is not hopping lame and is on restricted t/o on his own to keep him calm.

I am waiting for David Sinclair to see him as i feel that others are fobbing me off with 'he is footsore' 'its conformational' bla bla bla bla

Please, I wouldn’t leave him in unnecessary pain!
 
I think you are right. Holding on until the 16th and keeping him comfortable, having him x-rayed is the only thing i can do.

I haven’t had any experience of David but I am told he is the one to advise me on his situation and the best way forward.
 
It honestly sounds to me like you have made a decision to have him pts and that is ok, you don't need anyone's validation or go ahead. As long as you can confidently feel in your gut that it was the right thing long term and you would have 'no' regrets then do whatever you think is best x
 
I don't quite get how his lameness that's suddenly come on can be purely down to his poor conformation. If he was sound when you got him and has been sound up until pretty recently then his lameness could be donw to numerous issues. 8 mths is not a long time and at 8 yo he has plenty of time ahead of him. However, without seeing how bad this conformation is it's hard to comment.

I have seen plenty of very poorly put together horses over the years and many of them have been living fantastic competitive lives. My horse certainly doesn't conform to being 'correct' in how he's put together but it's never stopped him.

As for the rigginess - get him tested. I have a 26 yo pony I got when he was 8. I swear he's a rig but we had him tested a few years back and then confirmed he was not (I still don't believe them though! Lol). He is a 'special' pony, really nervy and suspicious andhe had been passed around a lot before i got him (at one point he was at a sales). Knowing how he is that would have totally freaked him out. It took a fair long time for him to come round and even now he can have his 'moments' and be neurotic but nothing to compared to how he was.

I would get some proper diagnosis for the vet (christ, horses go lame for soo many reasons!) before deciding how to proceed.
 
I own a warmblood who is quite badly toe in at the front, he too was very flat footed when i first had him and was barefoot at the time, soon realised that i couldnt work him barefoot as he only had to step on an uneven piece of ground and get a bruise! (got through a fair bit of epsom salt!)
Hes been in shoes for 2 years now and hes feet have improved drastically...of course he is still toe in (nothing can be done about that!) but he hasnt been unsound since!

I would recommend the short term expsense of shoeing (sedatation if needed) and im sure hes feet will improve, also feed a joint supplement and always work him in boots! Hes joints will be under more stress due to hes conformation but if you just want him as a pleasure horse i shouldnt think it would cause a problem, until hes much older anyway.

If you want to compare notes/pictures on pigeon toed warmbloods pm me!
 
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