What would you pay for this horse?

Tiddlypom said:
In this initial post you describe her as being intermittently lame. It seems to be a bit early to be celebrating.
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I only repeatedly what the owner told me. I didn't know what I was getting. I didn't know if she was hopping lame, intermittent or anything in between. It may well be a bit premature but it's looking pretty promising so far. I may end up eating my words.
 
Bellalily said:
HAHA!! Well done you. I've already posted, and my immediate thought was an issue with her feet as apparently 90% of problems are foot related. Let us know how she progresses :)
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Exactly. I was delighted when I saw she had c rap feet, as I knew it was even more likely to be in her feet and easily fixable. I will indeed update!
 
PoppyAnderson said:
I didn't know in advance. I bought it unseen on a total punt and instinct. I was only able to evaluate her feet when she arrived.
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Fair enough, just meaning that other people based their advice on their previous experiences. When they don't have the full picture they can't give you better advice and intermittent lameness could be literally anything. Mine had intermittent lameness and he's just had stifle surgery and has arthritis. But for others it could be something small or easy to fix.
 
PoppyAnderson said:
Despite the thrashing, I thought I'd return with an update!!

So I now have a very beautiful, immaculately bred, very expensive eventer for a couple of hundred quid. She has beautiful manners and has been beautifully produced. On this occasion, I'm so glad that there are so many people out there who are oblivious to the wonders of barefoot!
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Of course you returned to update - if you’d bought it and it had stayed lame we wouldn’t have heard a dicky bird :D

A few things have crossed my mind - it is unlikely to be a “very expensive eventer” at that height unless it had been doing teams, and we would have known about that & onset of lameness. You struck lucky this time, you win some you lose some. And I hope to god the poor thing doesn’t get tetanus.

Years of experience appear to morph quite quickly into breathtaking arrogance....
 
Fair point - it's not a £50k team horse but it's still not a dog worth tuppence either.

I would absolutely have come back if it was knackered and updated. I'm not proud. I might still have to yet - its early days but so far so good.

Of course luck has played its part, without a doubt but so has an informed, calculated risk.

Arrogance. Whatever.
 
PoppyAnderson said:
Why on earth? My version of unethical is vets prescribing remedial farrier and box rest for most lameness, when actually, the opposite is what's needed.
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But surely unless you were pretty certain it was a hoof problem (in which case it'd be the farrier) then you would surely get the vet if you didn't know why the horse was lame? You may well not always agree with the vet and how they suggest to deal with it but that's something you'd need to decide after. I think you'd have to be pretty arrogant to believe you know better than most vets...

With regard to the actual question, I personally would not have bought the horse or even taken it on for free. I was gifted a free highly talented horse who was sold for £20k at one point BUT he was slightly lame, I was told it was due to previous bad shoeing and he was coming right now but to be perfectly honest - the horse I managed to get sound for a years worth of competing then he started going downhill lameness wise again. I spent a decent amount trying to find out what was wrong with him to no avail, vet just said it was "mechanical" and Id have to send him 4 hours away to the big vets to spend a fortune looking into it more. Instead I retired him as he was comfortable in the field, but he still cost me a lot to keep him as an ornament for the next 2 or 3 years before I lost him due to a stable injury. As much as I loved that horse, I wouldn't take on another lame horse. So IMO the horse you're asking about is really worth nothing, Im surprised the seller even wanted any money for him!

I also dont understand how you can say you've bought it and struck lucky because you've got "a very expensive eventer" for a couple of hundred quid... but at the beginning you said it was "young and backed" which is no eventer...?? What exactly DID you buy?!

Remember you're not allowed to compete without a vaccinated horse... Have you seen a horse with tetanus? Its a horrific death Im told.
 
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I've taken on a freebie and a meat money horse and one slightly more expensive at several hundreds. All lame and all came right. For the cheapest two, neither of them had a barefoot rehab. The first one was never actually lame at all, he was just a very naughty pony and they wanted shot of it. The second had tons of rehab, none of it barefoot related as he had amazing feet.

The more expensive one did have a barefoot rehab for about 18 months and then the shoes went back on. Hes been much sounder and happier ever since.

All had veterinary intervention and the second and third one would never ever have come right without it. Its perfectly possible to find cheap or free projects and usually they can be turned round with a bit of time and work. In some cases shoes off will fix them, but it wont in others. Barefoot and barefoot rehab is not a magical cure all.

All your posts do is put people off even considering it as an option.
 
MagicMelon said:
But surely unless you were pretty certain it was a hoof problem (in which case it'd be the farrier)
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I should have said farrier / barefoot trimmer here sorry, I am very much into barefoot. My horses are all barefoot trimmed unless I specifically feel I need to have them shod. My competition horse I compete barefoot all year and have only just shod last month for studs for eventing then she'll go back to barefoot again come Autumn (and I mean trimmed by a barefoot trimmer, not just a farrier trim). I love barefoot and absolutely believe it fixes a lot of issues.
 
MagicMelon said:
I think you'd have to be pretty arrogant to believe you know better than most vets.....

I also dont understand how you can say you've bought it and struck lucky because you've got "a very expensive eventer" for a couple of hundred quid... but at the beginning you said it was "young and backed" which is no eventer...?? What exactly DID you buy.
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Hmmmm that’s a good point MM :)
 
Rowreach said:
I honestly don't think the replies you received previously had anything to do with people being oblivious to the wonders of barefoot.
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Not in my case. My driving pony is doing 12 to 15k on the roads several times a week and competing barefoot and will stay that way. I'm very pro barefoot.
 
MagicMelon said:
Remember you're not allowed to compete without a vaccinated horse... Have you seen a horse with tetanus? Its a horrific death Im told.
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The vaccination required is flu, not tetanus. Tetanus is not contagious and of nobody's business but the owner.
 
Leo Walker said:
Not in my case. My driving pony is doing 12 to 15k on the roads several times a week and competing barefoot and will stay that way. I'm very pro barefoot.
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That is what I meant! A lot of us know something about barefoot, but the OP's original post did not tell all the facts and indeed some of the details she gave us then have changed a bit, so whatever people's views on barefoot were, the majority of people were saying that an intermittent undiagnosed lameness would not necessarily be resolved by a barefoot rehab ....
 
MagicMelon said:
I think you'd have to be pretty arrogant to believe you know better than most vets...
.
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Most people with barefoot working horses know better than most vets how to manage horses without shoes. Most vets seeing a lame unshod horse will still immediately prescribe shoes. And most vets still prescribe remedial shoes and medication for foot lameness when there is now no doubt whatsoever that the most effective treatment for soft tissue injuries in the foot is a barefoot rehab.

Frankly, as far as shoes/barefoot is concerned, it's not arrogant at all to believe that you know better than most vets, it's a fact that many people with barefoot horses, and some with shod ones, do.
 
Polly I hope you've struck lucky, but I certainly wouldn't have paid more than the £1 I paid for my two rehab horses for the one you've bought.
 
ycbm said:
Most people with barefoot working horses know better than most vets how to manage horses without shoes. Most vets seeing a lame unshod horse will still immediately prescribe shoes. And most vets still prescribe remedial shoes and medication for foot lameness when there is now no doubt whatsoever that the most effective treatment for soft tissue injuries in the foot is a barefoot rehab.
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I'm not sure anyone is disputing that.

The issue with the original post was that the OP didn't have a clue what was wrong with the horse (indeed is now telling us she'd never set eyes on it before she bought it), but was adamant that she did not need to consult a vet to get a diagnosis before embarking on a barefoot rehab.

I mean, for all she knew it might have only had three legs, and even you couldn't have rehabbed that :)
 
I have bought a lame horse, for meat money, and he has come good after a very long and rocky rehab. He's 17 now, and still sound, but I took a punt and bought him with the proviso that I would put him down if he didn't come right - an absolute gamble that has paid off. I was, however, within days of putting him down after 4 months of intermittent lameness (it turned out to be ancient, massive, sub solar abscesses). Both he and I are lucky gamblers, however.

He's also been unshod since I bought him, and took the shoes off that afternoon.
 
Rowreach said:
That is what I meant! A lot of us know something about barefoot, but the OP's original post did not tell all the facts and indeed some of the details she gave us then have changed a bit, so whatever people's views on barefoot were, the majority of people were saying that an intermittent undiagnosed lameness would not necessarily be resolved by a barefoot rehab ....
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I was agreeing with you, I just phrased it appalingly :lol:
 
I admit I havern't read all the 12 pages, but why is everyone so disapointed that OP took a punt and got a fixable horse? Surely as horse lovers we should be pleased?
 
PoppyAnderson said:
Young, backed, quality 15hh, sensible, ridden away, potential to be a very good all-rounder sort but undiagnosed intermittent lameness. There will be plenty who wouldn't touch with a barge pole but if you were to take a punt, what would you pay?
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PoppyAnderson said:
So I now have a very beautiful, immaculately bred, very expensive eventer for a couple of hundred quid. She has beautiful manners and has been beautifully produced.
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You've managed to make them sound like two entirely different horses :D :D. How have we gone from a backed with potential to be good all rounder to beautifully produced very expensive eventer???!
 
ester said:
You've managed to make them sound like two entirely different horses :D :D. How have we gone from a backed with potential to be good all rounder to beautifully produced very expensive eventer???!
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You have possibly gone some way towards answering Clodagh's question without her having to read the 12 pages .... :D
 
This thread makes me exceptionally glad I am not a horse.


Or rather, at least two horses, which is what the OP seems to be dealing with...

Mind you, not sure why they are gloating as it's perfectly possible to pick up sound horses for free or ridiculously cheap if you strike lucky/know the right people/know where to look.
 
ycbm said:
Most people with barefoot working horses know better than most vets how to manage horses without shoes. Most vets seeing a lame unshod horse will still immediately prescribe shoes. And most vets still prescribe remedial shoes and medication for foot lameness when there is now no doubt whatsoever that the most effective treatment for soft tissue injuries in the foot is a barefoot rehab.

Frankly, as far as shoes/barefoot is concerned, it's not arrogant at all to believe that you know better than most vets, it's a fact that many people with barefoot horses, and some with shod ones, do.
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Not picking on you - but sometimes barefoot is not the best option. My old boy was barefoot for 7 years, then following acute laminitis, followed by a diagnosis of equine metabolic disorders, with rotated pedal bones in both front feet, I went down the route of remedial shoeing. The difference in the horse was immediate. The look of agony on his face was relieved, he trotted off the lorry after the first shoeing, when before it took 3 of us to persuade him to walk was amazing. Barefoot has its place - as does appropriate shoeing. This was done in vets advice - where barefoot trimmer was all for leaving the status quo.

The change in my boy was amazing - he happily gently hacked for another 5 years and has been retired and field sound for the last 5 years (without shoes)

Sometimes (often) vets do know more than owners
 
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This sort of post would be easier to believe with before and after videos.Whether the horse had a temporary lameness and is now sound, or is now still lame, or sore on all feet and the OP can't tell who knows!
Whether the horse is still worth more than a few hundred pounds who knows - but the OP can happily tell us that without any evidence and who knows maybe some people will believe them!
 
EllenJay said:
Not picking on you - but sometimes barefoot is not the best option. My old boy was barefoot for 7 years, then following acute laminitis, followed by a diagnosis of equine metabolic disorders, with rotated pedal bones in both front feet, I went down the route of remedial shoeing. The difference in the horse was immediate. The look of agony on his face was relieved, he trotted off the lorry after the first shoeing, when before it took 3 of us to persuade him to walk was amazing. Barefoot has its place - as does appropriate shoeing. This was done in vets advice - where barefoot trimmer was all for leaving the status quo.

The change in my boy was amazing - he happily gently hacked for another 5 years and has been retired and field sound for the last 5 years (without shoes)

Sometimes (often) vets do know more than owners
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That's not a soft tissue injury though and ycbm did specify that. She has also said many a time that she would shoe an uncomfortable metabolic horse.
 
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