Whatever your views on a badger cull in the fight against bovine TB please watch

[Alec Swan]

.......

If a test were developed that picked up when an animal was actually infected not when an animal has been vaccinated against btb. that combined with an oral vaccine and cull for both badgers and deer over a period of time could get us somewhere?

That would be all very well, but cattle are held in a crush for inspection and testing. How are you going to propose that deer and badgers are inspected? Locating and testing or treating wild animals is impossible. Even were it possible, or cost effective, handling and containing wild animals would be stressful and cruel, in the extreme.

Let's assume that we are dealing with badgers alone, they would need to be trapped in cage traps, they would need to be handled and tested, they would need to be released whilst the samples taken are sent away for analysis. THEN, the whole process has to be gone through again, the trapper would need to be certain that he had caught the right animal, so that if it was clear it would again be released, but if it was a carrier, presumably it would be shot, and all of that, is assuming that Brock is daft enough to go into a cage trap, for a second time!

h_h, I'm not arguing for the sake of it, and neither have I singled you out! It's just that the schemes whereby we somehow manage to have every badger in the country alive, and for always, are so impractical, as to be verging on stupidity!

There is only one sensible solution, in itself not a cure-all, but the problem would be greatly reduced if the wild population of badgers was reduced to manageable numbers. Strangely, that would also benefit the badgers themselves, as they would be healthier, as a population.

Alec.

 

[rhino]

If a test were developed that picked up when an animal was actually infected not when an animal has been vaccinated against btb. that combined with an oral vaccine and cull for both badgers and deer over a period of time could get us somewhere?

As I replied on the other thread, such diagnostics were being successfully developed, but as usual a lack of funding put paid to further research.

 

[Bearskin]

Why should badgers, (wild animals), die because of our love of meat and milk?

If you eradicate one species from the ecosystem it affects all other (wild/natural) species.

If farmers do not want their cattle to contract TB they should find other ways of seperating them from the badgers.

Sadly that would cost too much.

I am not a bunny hugger. I hunt and see it as part of life; the strong survive. The culling of badgers is not selective. All will die if they are in the wrong location.

In my opinion, the culling of badgers is yet another example of how the human race is raping the planet Earth.

 

[Mrs B]

Why should badgers, (wild animals), die because of our love of meat and milk?

If you eradicate one species from the ecosystem it affects all other (wild/natural) species.

If farmers do not want their cattle to contract TB they should find other ways of seperating them from the badgers.

Sadly that would cost too much.

I don't think anyone has suggested 'eradicating a species' ie badgers. It's more a case of overcoming our latter-day squeamishness about creating a healthy balance by controlling populations.

Allowing badgers to keep on breeding with no check affects others species too: as does the currently huge deer population.

The modern climate of abundance of food for our species (meat and vegetables grown and dispatched/harvested out of our sight) has created a generation or three of those who have no understanding about our place in the food chain, where food comes from or what it takes to get to our plates.

Yes, we are at the top but that comes with responsibilties to manage the eco-system as fairly as we can.

And if you think I'm a fan of mankind as a species, you're mistaken. I am not. But I am a realist. Separating cattle from badgers is not realistic.

 

[martlin]

If farmers do not want their cattle to contract TB they should find other ways of seperating them from the badgers.

Go on, help us out with some grand ideas... We're simple people, can't come up with ways to separate them.

 

[happyhacking:)]

That would be all very well, but cattle are held in a crush for inspection and testing. How are you going to propose that deer and badgers are inspected? Locating and testing or treating wild animals is impossible. Even were it possible, or cost effective, handling and containing wild animals would be stressful and cruel, in the extreme.

Let's assume that we are dealing with badgers alone, they would need to be trapped in cage traps, they would need to be handled and tested, they would need to be released whilst the samples taken are sent away for analysis. THEN, the whole process has to be gone through again, the trapper would need to be certain that he had caught the right animal, so that if it was clear it would again be released, but if it was a carrier, presumably it would be shot, and all of that, is assuming that Brock is daft enough to go into a cage trap, for a second time!

h_h, I'm not arguing for the sake of it, and neither have I singled you out! It's just that the schemes whereby we somehow manage to have every badger in the country alive, and for always, are so impractical, as to be verging on stupidity!

There is only one sensible solution, in itself not a cure-all, but the problem would be greatly reduced if the wild population of badgers was reduced to manageable numbers. Strangely, that would also benefit the badgers themselves, as they would be healthier, as a population.

Alec.[/QUOTE

Sorry Alec should have elaborated a bit more. I was talking about dealing with btb in cattle and not so much in deer and badgers. I was thinking along the lines of if all cattle were vaccinated against btb then the number of culled would dramatically fall. But if there were more vaccinated badgers (and deer if possible) and also a reduction in numbers there would be an improvement within those populations (though we would never really know how successful it was).

The problem as i see it (and i may be coming from the wrong angle here) is that we cannot at present protect our cattle from btb. If a vaccine was developed that did protect them and at the same time only infected cattle were picked up on the test, we could presumably either eradicate or dramatically reduce the number of cattle culled each year.

The badgers and deer would be on their own. As you rightly said we cannot do much to protect them from btb. But allowing more individuals to cull them would pick off the worst ones and reduce the numbers and giving them an oral vaccine (talking scattering food on the ground above the set) would gradually bring the infection rate down

 

[mon]

So why should cattle have to die just because so test shows they carry TB? How do you suggest we separate cattle and the feed from badgers total isolation? Then someone would complain of intensive farming!

 

[Ladydragon]

Why should badgers, (wild animals), die because of our love of meat and milk?

If you eradicate one species from the ecosystem it affects all other (wild/natural) species.

If farmers do not want their cattle to contract TB they should find other ways of seperating them from the badgers.

Sadly that would cost too much.

I am not a bunny hugger. I hunt and see it as part of life; the strong survive. The culling of badgers is not selective. All will die if they are in the wrong location.

In my opinion, the culling of badgers is yet another example of how the human race is raping the planet Earth.

Huh? How do you separate cattle and badgers and ensure the welfare requirements of the cattle (ie grazing, outdoor life etc) are met?

And who has suggested badgers should be eradicated? But you are happy for sick badgers to live through the less than savoury parts of an illness because they can't be put out of their misery... And it's ok for cattle to continue to be slaughtered but no badgers? Should we just be done with it and slaughter all cattle be they for milk, meat, pet or breed appreciation now so the badgers won't be bothered any more?

You kinda lost me at eradication...

The problem as i see it (and i may be coming from the wrong angle here) is that we cannot at present protect our cattle from btb. If a vaccine was developed that did protect them and at the same time only infected cattle were picked up on the test, we could presumably either eradicate or dramatically reduce the number of cattle culled each year.

The badgers and deer would be on their own. As you rightly said we cannot do much to protect them from btb. But allowing more individuals to cull them would pick off the worst ones and reduce the numbers and giving them an oral vaccine (talking scattering food on the ground above the set) would gradually bring the infection rate down

For what it's worth, my personal opinion would be that we have bTB so need to deal with it with a disease management rather than being under any impression we can eradicate it... A reliable test that can differentiate between a vaccine and reactor, a species specific vaccine with a decent uptake and longevity, and the EU to withdraw a ban on the use of vaccines... I think either cull or vaccination of badgers needs to be done given where we are at right now but I do think both *might* be short term answers as neither will eradicate bTB... In 10+ yrs time, breeding, transmission and migration *might* put us back at square one and another debate on vaccination v cull if we don't get the other aspects in place...

I don't think badgers need the protected status they currently have - but there are numpties out there who still bait... Animal welfare legislation should deal with that - but it's woefully inadequate at sentencing level...

Sorry... Just realised that all sounds rather rambling...

 

[Miss L Toe]

Go on, help us out with some grand ideas... We're simple people, can't come up with ways to separate them.

Obviously go back to the 1950's ... tie up cattle by the necks but keep in stalls all the year round, close all the doors to prevent Badger access.
You need to keep all farm animals like this, no outdoor animals at all, then badgers and deer can rove the countryside in complete freedom.
I think that as horse owners we should stand up to the plate and show these pesky farmers how easy it is to change their outdated practices by stabling all our horses then locking the stable doors, obviously we must not go out and about in the countryside in case of spreading infection on our hooves. Then for extra biosecurity we need to put up proper chain link fencing topped with razor wire, just in case any wildlife try to get in to the premises.