What's wrong with my horse?

[Maz55]

Looking for views on what could be wrong with my mare - just to forewarn and not in any way in place of vet advice!!

I've had my mare 5 years. For some time she's had 1/10 RH lameness but very hard to see and vet investigations inconclusive so we've carried on and until very recently shes been going very well and moving better than ever. Shes always flicked her head ridden (not head shaking) and i've never got to the bottom of it.

3 months ago I moved to a new yard and she's been the most settled there she has anywhere. Lovely springy rubber school but does get a bit slippery when it's wet.

About a month ago my mare would feel like she lost a hind leg the odd time when riding in the school, like stepping in a hole. Around the same time I noticed she'd lost muscle over her topline and around her quarters (equally on both sides). I noticed that more often than not the stumbling would be when the school was wet so put this down to her slipping on the surface as it has never happened on a hack.

This stumble hasn't happened last couple of weeks but one or two mornings she she felt very stiff to ride before warming up and not tracking up behind. I gave her alphabute and she immediately felt a lot better. A new "symptom" presented however in that unless she has been warmed up on the lunge first she has become a real kick on horse (unlike her) and is reluctant to maintain the trot (canter is fine). Unless I really nag her she'll do 2-3 strides and then stop.

Saddle recently checked and re-flocked so not that.

My first thought was is she getting a bit arthritic - she's 16 - so have been rugging her warmer and bandaging hinds which has helped a bit. I've also kept her on the alphabute and started adding turmeric. In my lesson last weekend, we warmed her up on the lunge and with some pole work, and then I rode her and she was forward and tracked up well in trot with a lovely outline. No head flicking, just a seemingly very happy, nicely going horse. She is built a bit downhill and rather on the forehand but we're working on that.

On the lunge (I don't lunge on small circles i tend to use the whole arena btw) for the first minute or two shes a bit stiff looking but then tracks up well in both walk and trot. Again nothing obviously wrong.

Hacking out shes a bit kick on walking out (speeds up a bit on the way home but not to the extent she used to) but is very forward in trot. Goes up and down hills with no problems. She is on the forehand though and will forge if i let the trot get too forward and don't collect her.

She was re-shod yesterday and this morning on lunge looked like she was landing toe first with hinds but otherwise tracking up well and seemingly relaxed.

My instructor feels that she's a bit arthritic but the main issue is the loss of topline and muscle and that we need to work on this. Shes also suggested i get someone to look at her back so i've got a mctimoney chiropractor booked for saturday. I'm now starting to wonder however, in view of what i saw this morning, if there isn't some pain somewhere : ( If the chiropractor isn't able to help/finds anything amiss then I will be calling the vet for investigation next week! So as I said I'm not seeking advice in place of proper vet advice (before anyone shoots me down) just wondering if anyone else come across anything like this before - more to prepare myself than anything and to see if there's any other stones i should be unturning first.

Thanks in advance.

 

[milliepops]

TBH though it's probably not the answer you want i think I'd be inclined to save your money from the chiro and go straight to the vet. it sounds like there have been some long standing issues going on and it's often a false economy to go round alternative treatments first and end up with the vet anyway (esp when strictly speaking, chiros/physios etc should not agree to treat a lame horse without a diagnosis in any case)

tripping and lack of activity behind can be caused by all sorts of things, arthritis in an older horse would be a common one but there are other things and the loss of topline would make me more concerned I think. if it's matching on both sides then again i wouldn't expect a chiro adjustment to work wonders in that instance.

 

[HeyMich]

Have you had her tested for cushings? I know it's nothing to do with the slight lameness behind, but one of our mares (15 yo) recently lost a lot of top line and muscle from over her quarters, along side a general feeling of lethargy when ridden, and she's unfortunately been tested positive for cushings.

If I were you I'd ask the vet for a lameness work-up and general blood screen, just to get a better picture of what's going on.

Hope she improves again soon. Let us know what you find.

 

[Maz55]

Have you had her tested for cushings? I know it's nothing to do with the slight lameness behind, but one of our mares (15 yo) recently lost a lot of top line and muscle from over her quarters, along side a general feeling of lethargy when ridden, and she's unfortunately been tested positive for cushings.

If I were you I'd ask the vet for a lameness work-up and general blood screen, just to get a better picture of what's going on.

Hope she improves again soon. Let us know what you find.

Thanks and sorry to hear this about your mare - I did wonder this myself. She had lami two years ago and was tested then but worth another blood screen now she's that much older.

 

[Sail_away]

When you say vet investigations, what have you had done? My ISH is stiff over the back and hind currently - we’ve had bloods, bute trial and unless he improves then nerve blocking the hinds is the next step. None of that is hugely expensive - I assume if this has been going on for a while she’s not insured for this? Hope you find something, it’s very frustrating when you can’t find the issue quickly.

 

[Maz55]

When the 1/10 RH lameness presented she had bone scan, x rays, nerve blocks, the works. all that could be found then was very minor inflammation of the hocks. hocks were injected at the time but made no real difference. Vet said inconclusive! This was 5 years ago though. Vet hasn't seen her (yet) in relation to these latest symptoms. It sounds though like that's my only real course of action. She's not insured for hocks or anything related.

 

[HeyMich]

Thanks and sorry to hear this about your mare - I did wonder this myself. She had lami two years ago and was tested then but worth another blood screen now she's that much older.

Yep, good plan. This time of year there is usually a seasonal rise in ACTH so she may be showing more symptoms. I hope you get to the bottom of it soon x

 

[quizzie]

Another thing to consider...Has her feeding regime changed at new yard either in bucket feed amount/type or quality of forage?

 

[Maz55]

Another thing to consider...Has her feeding regime changed at new yard either in bucket feed amount/type or quality of forage?

Quizzie why do you say that? The hay has changed, it's quite dusty but otherwise good quality and I soak it. She's on a lot less grass than she was before and has dropped weight as a result. Only substantial difference with the bucket feed is that i've been able to take her off her calmer as shes so much more relaxed - that's half the trouble in working all this out in a way as for 3 months i've had a very different horse (she used to be very forward, spooky, but is just chilled and in all other respects a much happier horse now) so i'm not comparing like with like!

 

[jenniehodges2001]

TBH though it's probably not the answer you want i think I'd be inclined to save your money from the chiro and go straight to the vet. .

I agree with Milliepops. I thought the vet had to see them first anyway before you could have the physio or chiro out but I may be wrong on that. I'd say that it sounds like arthritis to me. I would also say that the surface of the school can make a difference. I read a physio written article in one of the magazines the other day about how rubber on horsewalker surfaces is meant to be detrimental to horses as the sudden stop that it puts to a horses stride when its foot (shod or not) hits the rubber. Whereas concrete (which we all think is the worst thing to put on a walker floor) is preferable. I know this has nothing to do with things but thought I would just mention this.

So getting back to the way your horse goes better one day than another, maybe your horse goes better when its a drier day because it feels less likely to slip.

As horses are known for overcompensating in other areas of their body you could well find that she is sore elsewhere and this might not have shown before she was on bute.

If a horse is happy to go in one pace but not another I would possibly think this is because each pace uses a different set of muscle groups. Tendons and ligaments are also used in a different manner depending on which gait is asked for and I would go so far as to say that you may well find your answer if you were to ask the vet if they could pinpoint why this might be.

 

[southerncomfort]

Your last post does make me suspicious re cushings.

Most of us have complete loonies at the moment because of the autumn flush of grass! The fact that your horse has become so quiet that you've ditched your calmer does make me wonder.

Having said that, chronic low grade pain might also cause a lack of sparkle so I think you're right to have your vet out.

 

[Maz55]

I agree with Milliepops. I thought the vet had to see them first anyway before you could have the physio or chiro out but I may be wrong on that. I'd say that it sounds like arthritis to me. I would also say that the surface of the school can make a difference. I read a physio written article in one of the magazines the other day about how rubber on horsewalker surfaces is meant to be detrimental to horses as the sudden stop that it puts to a horses stride when its foot (shod or not) hits the rubber. Whereas concrete (which we all think is the worst thing to put on a walker floor) is preferable. I know this has nothing to do with things but thought I would just mention this.

So getting back to the way your horse goes better one day than another, maybe your horse goes better when its a drier day because it feels less likely to slip.

As horses are known for overcompensating in other areas of their body you could well find that she is sore elsewhere and this might not have shown before she was on bute.

If a horse is happy to go in one pace but not another I would possibly think this is because each pace uses a different set of muscle groups. Tendons and ligaments are also used in a different manner depending on which gait is asked for and I would go so far as to say that you may well find your answer if you were to ask the vet if they could pinpoint why this might be.

Thanks Jennie - this echoes my instructor's theory in relation to the school and how dry the surface, which is partly why we've held off a bit.

 

[quizzie]

Well as you say she has lost muscle/weight/topline, that is either a disease process ( eg Cushings or reduced movement from arthritis ).....or could be due to a reduction in food intake, and with a change of yard that was possible.
Soaking the hay may reduce the nutritional quality both in calories and vitamins....
Reduced muscle mass will mean poorer function/control of possibly arthritic joints, so the weight loss could be very relevant.
The fact you've stopped her calmer and say she is so quiet, could be the result of less calories..what time of year was the hay cut?

 

[Maz55]

Well as you say she has lost muscle/weight/topline, that is either a disease process ( eg Cushings or reduced movement from arthritis ).....or could be due to a reduction in food intake, and with a change of yard that was possible.
Soaking the hay may reduce the nutritional quality both in calories and vitamins....
Reduced muscle mass will mean poorer function/control of possibly arthritic joints, so the weight loss could be very relevant.
The fact you've stopped her calmer and say she is so quiet, could be the result of less calories..what time of year was the hay cut?

That's a very interesting perspective Quizzie. I don't know when the hay was cut. Hay soaked as she has had laminitis although she is getting some dry hay now too.

 

[quizzie]

......It all comes down to the eternal question of which came first, the chicken or the egg!!

ie...What caused the weight loss....internal or external factors...and is the weight loss relevant to the condition ?

 

[The Jokers Girl]

Mines has similar issues and never really been fully sound for 18 months. Narrowed it down to degenerative changes in left hip, nothing can particularly be done other than enjoy the good days and give her rest on the bad days. She gets regular physio and we avoid any downward hills

 

[Maz55]

Mines has similar issues and never really been fully sound for 18 months. Narrowed it down to degenerative changes in left hip, nothing can particularly be done other than enjoy the good days and give her rest on the bad days. She gets regular physio and we avoid any downward hills

Sorry to hear that The Jokers Girl

 

[Quigleyandme]

My gift horse, broken down hunter, second career as show jumper but diagnosed with kissing spines, was kept comfortable and working for many years by our McTimoney practitioner. I would be inclined to give it a go. Same horse went dramatically wonky behind after slipping in the corner of the field. One hip was about four inches higher than the other. Sorted in three sessions. I have been pain free for 20 plus years after a few McTimoney sessions. I tried to lift a millstone by myself last year and put my back out and my McTimoney person sorted it out in 20 minutes. I don’t see a need to hit the nuclear button straight off personally. She could have just tweaked herself in the field or arena.

 

[milliepops]

with a horse that is generally not appearing to be thriving as well as it used to, and has been lame on and off for a while, i don't see why the vet is the "nuclear option". IMO it's the first line for a horse that is not quite right

if you already know what you're dealing with then fine to opt for chiro/physio to help them stay comfortable but i don't think it's fair to the horse to not seek a diagnosis first. (plus as mentioned before, a physio or chiro should refuse to treat a lame horse that hasn't seen a vet first).

 

[SEL]

My McTimoney chiro came out for a routine appointment once, saw the horse walk and trot up and said she couldn't work on her until the vet had been. I knew she was a bit 'off' but with her muscle issues that's not uncommon - but the chiro saw a different 'off' to normal so back to the vet we went (& have pretty much moved in to the vets now, would probably be cheaper )

Anyway, guess I'm saying it could be a tonne of different things but vet out for bloods and a trot up would be a start in my books

 

[Maz55]

Thanks all. I've taken on board all your comments and discussed with my instructor and I've got the vet coming Monday, but in all probability will get her back checked out too.

 

[Quigleyandme]

with a horse that is generally not appearing to be thriving as well as it used to, and has been lame on and off for a while, i don't see why the vet is the "nuclear option". IMO it's the first line for a horse that is not quite right

if you already know what you're dealing with then fine to opt for chiro/physio to help them stay comfortable but i don't think it's fair to the horse to not seek a diagnosis first. (plus as mentioned before, a physio or chiro should refuse to treat a lame horse that hasn't seen a vet first).

I understand your reasoning. I guess I am somewhat sceptical after my recent experience of half a year‘s wages spent on vet bills on a horse that died undergoing vet treatment. Purely personal perspective.

 

[Maz55]

I understand your reasoning. I guess I am somewhat sceptical after my recent experience of half a year‘s wages spent on vet bills on a horse that died undergoing vet treatment. Purely personal perspective.

Quigleyandme - I share your reticence having had a very similar experience! I will cover both bases to be on the safe side!