when does advice become bullying?

DD

DD

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a yard where a friend keeps her pony has a control freak. long story short said person tells my friend what she can and cant feed her own pony and how much when she can ride and so on anyone else have to put up with this type of thing?
:mad:
 
Not an unknown situation to me unfortunately, happily long out of it now.

How old is your friend? Can she go to see her horse when this person isn't around? And....playing devils advocate - could there be a real/genuine concern your friend isn't as knowledgeable as she should be for owing a horse?

Going on my own experiences, I'd say she needs to have *much* more confidence in her own abilities to manage her horse, folk can't boss you about nearly so much when your sure of yourself. It's surprisingly easy to have your confidence in your own abilities eroded by folk like that, does she realise she's effectively being manipulated?
 
It's the local expert syndrome again - everyone who knows not much seems to have this urge to give out "advice". Your friend could of course just ignore her...................
 
JillA said:
...Your friend could of course just ignore her...................
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This is what I would do but it easier said than done if the friend is timid disposition.

OK so not the same, but an example. There is a girl on my yard, she is a really lovely, sweet girl but by heck, she chats for England - and about total crap (OH my horse is still so soft after his bath 2 days ago, this is the shampoo I used, he's so clean and handsome and SOFT and blah blah blah...). If you let her she will go on... and on... and on... I don't want to be mean so if I'm on the clock I will just smile and not respond when she talks at me and carry on what I'm doing.

I would do the same if someone was giving unwanted 'advice'.
 
Is your friend a first time/novice owner? These sorts of people have a nasty habit of latching on to them! They probably think they're being helpful. Extremely annoying nevertheless! Perhaps your friend could tell this pain in the bum that she is taking advice/instructions from her trainer? (whether she has one or not!) They might take the hint and bog off.
 
I used to end convo abruptly with '..good job this is my horse then, isn't it?' then continued on my merry way, always worked. :)

Either that or the universal words F and O work just as good!

Hope she gets it stopped, horses are meant to be a pleasure not a chore!
 
My yo tried it a few times at the start when they didn't know my knowledge range (assumed the girl terrified of riding was novice not just someone who's recovering after a massive fall)

I eventually in convo mentioned I'd had horses for 15 years riding 26 years and have a lv3 certificate in horse care - more than they have! Theyve not tried to advise me in anything again, and if anything ask my advice lol

Of course this doesn't help your friend if that's not her experience but my point is she needs to prove she knows what she's doing with her animal and that advice is not required unless sought.
 
Always difficult! I have grown up with horses, keeping them at my house so have been the sole carer for them and the lady down the road still treats me as if I am 4.. I'm 18. Apparently I can't ride my "female" horse (he is a boy) and shouldn't clip him, trim his tail (she stopped and got out the car to tell me that) or blah blah blah. The best thing to do really is to just stay firm and don't be knocked as that takes the fun out of it for them. Be confident and give them your reasoning politely or if thst doesn't work then you are in your right to be blunt and rude. A certificate or proof of knowledge won't stop them if they think they know more as they probably do the same to the vet or farrier, it's just their personality. Anyway, I hope the situation is solved, it must be horrible for her, that is no fun.
 
Been there!

I kept stum, they didn't matter to me so I got on with it: did my thing with my horse and never said a word about my experience to anyone.
So they assumed I had none.
Actually I had worked at several riding schools (as you do), went on to Agricultural College, and then subsequently worked at a higher with bl**dy expensive horses.

If it was now I'd be a little (a lot) more firm with them........
........but I was younger then.

:eek:
 
To answer the question in the title, IMO advice becomes bullying depending on the reaction when you ignore it or (politely) point out it wasn't asked for and you are quite happy doing it your way.

You will always get unrequested advice and opinions in the horse world, and occasionally that can even be helpful. Not always of course, and I used to get plenty of "advice" when I kept my scruffy, unrugged, barefoot cob on a dressage / showing yard, only occasionally did it get unpleasant - mostly around rugging.

What happens if your friend just feeds and exercises her horse how she wants?
 
Being_Ros said:
Always difficult! I have grown up with horses, keeping them at my house so have been the sole carer for them and the lady down the road still treats me as if I am 4.. I'm 18. Apparently I can't ride my "female" horse (he is a boy) and shouldn't clip him, trim his tail (she stopped and got out the car to tell me that) or blah blah blah. The best thing to do really is to just stay firm and don't be knocked as that takes the fun out of it for them. Be confident and give them your reasoning politely or if thst doesn't work then you are in your right to be blunt and rude. A certificate or proof of knowledge won't stop them if they think they know more as they probably do the same to the vet or farrier, it's just their personality. Anyway, I hope the situation is solved, it must be horrible for her, that is no fun.
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I personally believe that the correct answer to these people is 2 words , the second one being off and the first depends on how far you would like them to go. Yes they're going to get back into the car going 'how rude , what an ill mannered individual etc etc' but they are much less likely to ever speak to you again which has to be a bonus!
 
On a yard, it becomes bullying when you allow it to. It's not like being at work with a bully in a managerial position. All your friend needs to say is "Oh that's interesting" or "Thanks for your advice" and then walk away. Debating the issue would allow the fellow livery to continue giving unsolicited advice, so just don't do it. Even if the 'advisor' is the YO, a livery client has the option to move yards, if the YO won't stop 'advising'.
 
DragonSlayer said:
I used to end convo abruptly with '..good job this is my horse then, isn't it?' then continued on my merry way, always worked. :)

Either that or the universal words F and O work just as good!

Hope she gets it stopped, horses are meant to be a pleasure not a chore!
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Agree with the above ^^^

When I was younger I would of just listened quietly, become upset, moaned to my Mum and given her a headache, now I'm old I would just do the above
 
my friend is a lady who has taken early retirement, has ridden since as child and a couple of years ago became a horse owner. She is quite timid by nature. the "advisor" is much younger and more novice ironically but is a bully and know it all. its a small yard and the YO isn't very helpful. Best thing my friend could do, I think, is move the horse away. terrible how people wont mind their own business and spoil others enjoyment.
 
totally agree move - there are lots of lovely yards around. your friend needs to have confidence in her own ability - after all it's her horse and she knows them best - it is very difficult but she needs to cop a deaf un and just ignore, people mean well but boy oh boy do they interfere and make any situation much, much worse - I really hope she manages to sort it out
 
Very sad for your friend. It does become bullying when it is unrelenting. Your friend has only 2 choices which is to tell the other person that the advice is unsolicited and not wanted, or a line I used when younger and less confident...which was to say I pay for advice which means I don't listen to others who have less knowledge. Other choice to is to vote with her feet and move. Life is too short.
 
Downton Dame said:
my friend is a lady who has taken early retirement, has ridden since as child and a couple of years ago became a horse owner. She is quite timid by nature. the "advisor" is much younger and more novice ironically but is a bully and know it all. its a small yard and the YO isn't very helpful. Best thing my friend could do, I think, is move the horse away. terrible how people wont mind their own business and spoil others enjoyment.
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Your friend needs to take a step back from this person. If she's not got one already, she may find an iPod a really useful thing, then she can be with her horse with that lovely clear signal of I don't want to be bothered when she has her headphones in!

Re feeding etc, I couldn't tell you what the majority of folk at the yard feed their horses, nor would they what I feed mine, she needs to shut any/all discussions down about what she feeds when. If she's the timid type, she needs to learn the art of 'nodding and agreeing, then doing whatever it was she was going to do all along'. If she feels she needs an excuse as to why she's not taken onboard the unsolicited advice, she could lie and say she's spoken with a feed helpline. Unless what's being fed is a welfare issue, it's no one else's business.

Re being told when she can/can't ride, does she get any lessons, or could she join a local RC? Getting other folk involved may help her distance herself from this toxic person.
 
sarahann1 said:
Your friend needs to take a step back from this person. If she's not got one already, she may find an iPod a really useful thing, then she can be with her horse with that lovely clear signal of I don't want to be bothered when she has her headphones in!

Re feeding etc, I couldn't tell you what the majority of folk at the yard feed their horses, nor would they what I feed mine, she needs to shut any/all discussions down about what she feeds when. If she's the timid type, she needs to learn the art of 'nodding and agreeing, then doing whatever it was she was going to do all along'. If she feels she needs an excuse as to why she's not taken onboard the unsolicited advice, she could lie and say she's spoken with a feed helpline. Unless what's being fed is a welfare issue, it's no one else's business.

Re being told when she can/can't ride, does she get any lessons, or could she join a local RC? Getting other folk involved may help her distance herself from this toxic person.
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This is good advice.
Depending upon what she feels comfortable with she perhaps could have a little personal mantra to go with the 'smile sweetly and carry on', She doesn't need to say it out loud everytime but a thought of 'Yes dear, now run along now I'm busy' in a kindly but slightly patronising manner may help, then back to the task in hand. No drama, no fuss - her pony wouldn't like it and they're the reason she's at the yard.
 
Downton Dame said:
my friend is a lady who has taken early retirement, has ridden since as child and a couple of years ago became a horse owner. She is quite timid by nature. the "advisor" is much younger and more novice ironically but is a bully and know it all. its a small yard and the YO isn't very helpful. Best thing my friend could do, I think, is move the horse away. terrible how people wont mind their own business and spoil others enjoyment.
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Other than this "advisor" if your friend is happy with the other owners and the location and facilities suit her, then she needs to in the first instance try and manage the situation. Otherwise she will end up being pushed around on whatever yard she ends up on.

She needs to come up with some stock phrases along the lines of "oh yes I used to think that but current thinking has changed apparently" or "its amazing how many different ways of doing things there are" or "sometimes the old ways are the best" or "well after 30 years plus of doing it this way with no problems I think I'll stick with it"

If this doesn't work then start to get a bit more blunt along the lines previously mentioned such as "if I want advice I'll ask for it" and then if she still keeps on "if I wanted advice I would ask but its nice to know who to go to" - with the "or not" muttered under breath.

If she gets to the point where she is thinking of leaving then she has nothing to lose with being honest with this person.
 
It becomes bullying and harassment when people don't know when to shut up and stop trying to force their opinions on you like a sledgehammer
Its a bit like the keyboard experts on forums and facebook only right in your face.
You can still use the 'ignore' feature though!!
 
Would she be confident enough to say in a reasonable manner " Thank you for your opinions but I really don't want them and I would rather you kept them to yourself". Sometimes the point is better made in a conversational way, rather than getting wound up
 
JillA said:
Would she be confident enough to say in a reasonable manner " Thank you for your opinions but I really don't want them and I would rather you kept them to yourself". Sometimes the point is better made in a conversational way, rather than getting wound up
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This ^^^^
Presumably the person is a bit thick skinned to not notice their advice is unwelcome. I think its better to tackle the issue before you lose your temper.
 
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