When is a win or place, not actually so?

I won a dressage class the other day. I was the only competitor!
My score would not have earned me a rosette on a normal day (it was a last minute show so I guess not many people realised it was on) so as such the score sheet was worth more to me than the rosette. HOWEVER, I do feel that I was less disappointed that I would normally have been, because the rosettes acted as a little payment to ease the not-so-great score sheet? Also, it makes my OH happy when I bring home a ribbon as it makes the horses look more valuable. He's not very horsie ;).
 
You can't help it if you are the only one!

Years ago went what was for me a long distance in those days to an affiliated showing show, my horse was the only large riding horse but fully and properly judged, ridden, stripped etc. Then in the championship he went on to be champion beating the first and second from the small riding horse which had a few more entries so that did prove something.

I think in showing it is a case more of the quality of the class than the numbers - you could quite easily get a small class but all HOYS horses and it doesn't need bigger numbers to make for a quality class. That said, winning a big quality class is of course even better.
 
Its hard but first and foremost I am after a perfomance from my horse (and me!) which I am pleased with and any placings/frillies are a bonus! :D

Personally if I was 1st of 1 I wouldn't be mentioning my placing and will concentrate more on my %/score/quality of rounds etc.

Even 1 of 4 or 5 would have me being a bit errr iffy mentioning placings. Yes a win is a win is a win but I want to feel like I have achieved it rather than being handed up on a plate where it wouldn't have mattered if I turned up on a beachside donkey ;) :p :D

I find dressage hard though as it is so subjective. I did a test two weeks ago which I thought was 'alright' and got 22.5 (penalties) yet did another test Sunday which did have some small mistakes but showed better quality yet got 32.5, all because of two different judges but both gave good accurate comments as to the tests I rode it was just where the 1st judge gave an 8 the 2nd would give a 7! I often therefore tend to ignore the marks and instead look where we are in the field of competitors and the comments the judge has written. If they tally with how I thought the test went then great take it as a positive that what I feel is what the judge sees. ;) If they don't I either declare (in silence :p ) the judge blind or me a numpty :p :D
 
I compete BD and unaff dressage, the absolute most important thing at the end of the day is how I felt with my, and my horse's performance during the test. Yes it's nice to get a placing, and nice to get points but it's all about riding for the next time so don't focus on today, praise what was good and pin point what you can improve on for next time.
When I first started competing my chap, we got something dreadful like 53.8% so I noted where I'd dropped marks and we improved. By his second outing he was on 63.4% so I knew we were doing something right - the fact that I got 4th place was neither here nor there. The big WHOOP was from going from a 5 in his free walk to a 7! That to me was the achievement.

Now he's always in the mid to high 60's - would be higher but he's been struggling with right canter lead - and we've only been at this dressage lark since January! He's got well over a dozen rosettes in that time from 1st place to 8th place but I'm not so fussed by them as by the constant improvement in how he feels, how I feel and where we get that one mark higher or one more positive comment on our test sheet.

In a class of 35 he recently came 6th with 67%, and that was with a wrong canter lead that he refused to get correct (d'oh!) i was happy with the placing, but I was more happy with the fact that he felt more relaxed than usual, he was nicely out in his neck - not over bent, he maintained a lovely rhythm in all paces and didn't hang on my outside rein.

If my instructor is smiling when I come out the ring, and I'm smililing, then that's the most important thing - not what colour rosette, how many i beat etc.
 
I posted about this on another thread.

Some years back I took my Appiano to a SHAPS show. Due to his unusual colour, we were the only one in all classes except the WH. We won all classes but the WH one was the only one in my mind which counted, all the others were hollow victories and nothing more than a waste of mine and the judges time. She might as well have just given the rosette without me poncing round for 15 mins!!
 
See it appears horse showing is not like dog showing.... In dogs, if it's a walk over with one in the class, the judge is not obligated to pronounce you the winner, or award you any of the accolades and prizes associated with winning....
It's not xommon to withold ribbons but it is done...

I do BS now, and whilst I am happy with a double clear, as katb hit it on the head- knowing I can win even if it's small entries, it satisfying. The course after all, remains the same whether ten people or a hundred tackle it....

However winning with three poles down would not make me too happy, but the money would ease the pain, as someone above mentioned!
 
Mmmmmm makes you wonder about things in the advertising world.

My filly came second at a County show last year.......out of 2. Technially could advertise her as having been second at County Level showing...brilliant might put a couple of pounds on her price and some more interest, not lying just hiding full truth. (she's not for sale)
Going back this year ridden and hope to get 2nd again but hopefully with more in the class.
 
I've known show judges to with hold places from ponies that don't deserve it.

I had my shetland out at a show in-hand, he won his gelding class out of 4 (that's an impressive number of shetland geldings up here btw!) and whilst waiting for the championship I watched the rest of the shetland classes. The judge placed the only stallion forward 3rd so it couldn't be in the championship. Then it came to the Mini classes. 4 in the youngstock - places started at 5th ... adult class had 3 in, she awarded 1st place then 4th and 5th places. To be fair, the ponies she didn't placed down were truly shocking examples of their breed and I don't know any judge who would have placed them. The owner, funny he owned/bred most of them, threw an absolute tantrum, swore at the judge in the ring and put in a complaint to the show secretary - it got him absolutely no where and he has since given up breeding and showing shetlands (thankfully!!! They really were bad!) What ticked him off more than anything was that he wanted his stallion to get the PUK and NPS qualifiers and by standing 3rd he couldn't get them as they only went to 2nd. And to put the icing on the cake my grey gelding went champion and this guy thinks that shetlands should always be black and geldings are abominations that should never be seen!
 
what i love about dressage is it doesnt matter where you come, its your score sheets what you are happy about. On saturday I did a dressage test and got out best marks yet (65%) and came 6/17 in one and 7/22 in the other. people probably thought "why is she so happy, her placings arent that great" but compared to last time they are very fantastic!!!

I think I wouldn't feel that great if i came 1st out of 1 or 2 but if my score sheet was 70% i would feel fantastic but probably wouldnt mention the placing.
Last year i went to do dressage at a show (before dancer was used to white boards) and we placed 1st out of 4 but with only 45% (not sure what side of the bed that judge woke up from) so wasnt really that happy.

I feel i get much more of a reward from dressage than say showing, especially in hand, as i feel its not judged on all the hard work i have put in (unless u bred the horse or in tack and turnout) but whether you have a good eye on the horse u bought. Over the last year i have got 3 1sts in the only 3 in hand classes we entered, i was pleased with how the horses behaved ( they are only 3 yrs) but wasnt that woohoo about the placing compared to how i was on saturday with the dressage!
 
This is (one of!) my pet HATES!! I know someone who regularly brags about her placings and wins, forgetting that we all compete at the same venues and thus see the published results:

3rd at the Eventer Championships (no...not badders grassroots but the local comp centre where pretty much anyone who enters qualifies)

2nd at the RC area qualifier(....out of 2)

5th at the RC area(...out of 5!).

She also takes it one step further by changing the results if it suits....a recent event where she scored 65 D, 8 SJ, and was E at fence 2 XC was changed to a 65%D, 4SJ and a 'green XC but he jumped very nicely!:D

The stupid thing is that her results are actually good (ie the local champs)and she has done some great things that she should be really proud of- but they are just lost amongst the exaggerating and the bragging about parts that arent actually the bits that went well:confused:

:D
 
avthechav said:
This is (one of!) my pet HATES!! I know someone who regularly brags about her placings and wins, forgetting that we all compete at the same venues and thus see the published results:

3rd at the Eventer Championships (no...not badders grassroots but the local comp centre where pretty much anyone who enters qualifies)

2nd at the RC area qualifier(....out of 2)

5th at the RC area(...out of 5!).


:D
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So the RC areas have gone the same way as most unaff comps? When I did RC qualifiers, there were LOADS in them (and I won one :P). Perhaps I should join the RC again.....
 
Took daughter to trailblazers 2nd rounds jumping & dressage. There were 4 in dressage class with 6 to qualify, came 3rd but of course all in class qualified, daughter was happy with score though. Then following week did jumping 95 & 1.05m were 3 in each class again with 6 to qualify!! Had a pole down in each, came 3rd in each. Daughter wad gutted that even though she qualified she felt like it was just for turning up! She agreed with me that she would much rather come 7th in a big class & not qualify, than qualify the way she did!! Looking on trailblazers website at results for those who have qualified for finals, it seems that the classes are small in a lot of areas!!
 
I came 3rd in a 2'9 working hunter once :cool:

There were 3 in the class. I'd already been eliminated during the jumping of the 2'3, and in the 2'9 we had 2 stops, and didn't perform a single step of right canter. My mum said she would have asked me to leave if she was judging :o

Not my proudest rosette I have to say!!
 
I try to think of competitions as experience for me and my boy - if we get a pretty frilly, then even better :p

As long as we continue to improve then Im not too fussed about placings tbh
 
kickonchaps said:
I came 3rd in a 2'9 working hunter once :cool:

There were 3 in the class. I'd already been eliminated during the jumping of the 2'3, and in the 2'9 we had 2 stops, and didn't perform a single step of right canter. My mum said she would have asked me to leave if she was judging :o

Not my proudest rosette I have to say!!
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'My mum said she would of asked me to leave' LOL :D
 
kickonchaps said:
I came 3rd in a 2'9 working hunter once :cool:

There were 3 in the class. I'd already been eliminated during the jumping of the 2'3, and in the 2'9 we had 2 stops, and didn't perform a single step of right canter. My mum said she would have asked me to leave if she was judging :o

Not my proudest rosette I have to say!!
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Ha ha. Thats like a time when a girl rode my husband's horse in the working hunter and had that many fences down in the 2'6" and 3' class that the judge asked her to jump last in the open class so that they wouldn't have to put the fences back up again as it was the last class in that ring! Naturally he left them standing that round!

Re qualifiers, most qualifiers at out shows only apply if there is a maximum number in the ring - ie first qualifies, then second if there are over six in the class... The fact that you qualify anyway is a bit of a joke for Trailblazers really.
 
I even rang trailblazers before the dressage to check how many would qualify if theres only 4 in class & got told ' lucky you, just turn up & your qualified'!! Last time we did trailblazers was 5 years ago & it was a nightmare to get qualified!! There were usually 40 odd in the jumping classes!! Made it special when you did qualify though xx
 
tinap555 said:
I even rang trailblazers before the dressage to check how many would qualify if theres only 4 in class & got told ' lucky you, just turn up & your qualified'!! Last time we did trailblazers was 5 years ago & it was a nightmare to get qualified!! There were usually 40 odd in the jumping classes!! Made it special when you did qualify though xx
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I qualified for the Dressage Champs about 5 years ago and the sections in the qualifiers were huge - it was a real achievement and I was really chuffed.

I do wonder if the cost of going to the Champs is putting people off now, as it's not cheap? :(
 
Some of my favourite rosettes are 5ths and 6ths because they we were won during a really big show or big class.

I'm getting a bit fed up at the moment though as every show I enter has about 50 odd people in my class! I came 4th in a dressage the other week with just under 69% yet my mum came 2nd in a different dressage show with 59%!
My best ever mark dressage was 76% and I still came 2nd as it was a huge class. I sometimes get down thinking what do I have to do to actually win!!!
The last combine training I did I got 64% dressage and clear showjumping and I got nothing yet one of my friends got an awful dressage Mark, 40 something but because she went faster in the showjumping she came 3rd and got a rosette.
I'm very very proud of my horse and I feel so happy when we do well but I do think I'm a bit unlucky sometimes as literally every class I enter has billions of people in or the local professionals in it with 10 world class youngsters!
I have to say thought that having won rosettes in the past despite having faults ect it doesn't leave much satisfaction. At the end of the day I would rather come nowhere on a smart double clear then be placed with a ratty round and faults .
:)
 
marmalade76 said:
So the RC areas have gone the same way as most unaff comps? When I did RC qualifiers, there were LOADS in them (and I won one :P). Perhaps I should join the RC again.....
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Hi Marmalade, how are u? Well apparently there are competitions like this girl goes to however whenever I decide to enter any unaff or RC compeition the world and his wife turn up!!- so if you want a quiet outing I would maybe look at my diary and pick any that I am not attending :D
 
marmalade76 said:
So the RC areas have gone the same way as most unaff comps? When I did RC qualifiers, there were LOADS in them (and I won one :P). Perhaps I should join the RC again.....
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RC areas are still very busy in this area it seems. We are at Areas on Sun, there are approx 150 dressage tests being ridden in 5 arenas, must have given the organisers a major headache.
 
I think BSJA (sorry BS!!!! now) has absolutely killed local competitions. Snobbery value for a lot of people is - i compete AFFILIATED. Yes you do darling - at what, 85cm (i think thats what they start at!!!!!)

So now local shows are almost always smaller than this even in the open! went into a 1.10 open the other week - more like 3'!!!

I only want to affiliate (almost purely cos its too bloody expensive) when im winning the 1.15 tracks at trailblazers - why affiliate when such good courses are a fraction of BS cost. Snobbery. thats the only reason a lot of people i know affiliate. We are doing well 1.10 this year, so 1.15 is the aim for winter :D
 
A win out of one is not a win.

Dressage is so subjective you cannot even go on percentages.

I know some judges that have scored everyone is the class above 70% and some than judge everyone under 60%.

"We won on 70%, 2nd place was 63% " sounds great, until you realize there were only 2 in the class and the second place horse pratted about, bucking etc so is a win on 70% really that great? I think not.

There are some people that choose venues they know will be quiet and then boast that they won a class with 6 in. 6? That's a tiny class!
 
Funny this thread should have re-surfaced as I was thinking about it on Thursday when I 'won' two BD classes. I was the only competitor in the Open section however so I basically just had to ride down the centre-line to win :o. It was the horse's first time out and she got pretty good comments and percentages and would have held her own and been 2nd and 5th overall so I was very happy.

I think it's difficult, especially with non-horsey people, to justify 'non-results'. My clients always ask how I'm getting on competing and they look pretty non-plussed if I say 'we didn't come anywhere but I was really pleased with XX horse'. I think they think it sounds like a cop-out. I can appreciate that sort of outing but I do need to get some decent results inbetween to impress them with occasionally! ;)

I also think that whoever said they value the lower placed rosettes more is correct. I have plenty 1sts and 2nds on my wall but the 5-10ths are the ones I rate as they're usually BE rosettes and they take an awful lot more winning than a class of 6 in a RC prelim!!
 
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