When old horses stop lying down..

marmalade76

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..is it time to PTS?

Just musing really, brought to mind after reading on here about horses needing REM sleep and that they need to lie down for this, owning an oldie and having known some very oldies owned by friends.

Oldie no 1 was a cob belonging to a friend I shared a private yard with. He was one of those who nobody really knew how old he was and I think she was fibbed to when she bought him because I remember riding past his field years before, I reckon he was in his 30s, he had lost all his top incisors. He would lie down to scratch his legs but would not lie down to sleep, he would doze off standing up and then nearly collapse but always managed to save himself from what I saw. He's since been PTS due to a field injury that he never recovered from (and this went on too long IMO).

Oldie no 2 was a pony I had loaned in my teens. She made it to 42 when she was finally PTS due to colic. Her owner told me she hadn't laid down for years.

So is it fair to keep a horse going when they no longer feel they can lie down to sleep? I do think there is an element of competition/ achievement to get an animal to a grand old age, I got a feeling of this with the 42 yo. I wouldn't have kept her going as long as that, that's for sure and not entirely for selfless reasons either. Someone else I know had a horse in his thirties who couldn't get up in the stable, the fire brigade were called and he was winched up only to be PTS a couple of weeks later for the same thing. Why was he not PTS the first time and saved the trauma of being winched up?

My current oldie ( 22 this time) definitely still lies down to rest both in the field and in her stable so I'm not at that point yet! But is this something the owners of aged equines should be considering?
 

Nasicus

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If they can no longer/appear to no longer perform a basic function (such as laying down to sleep), then there's probably something wrong. I've known a lot of people who just think it's 'so strange' their horse 'never lays down to sleep'. And I just want to grab them and shout 'That's not normal, get the vet out!'. One actually listened to me when I mentioned the lack of REM sleep and pony turned out to have arthritis following vet investigation.
I even know a couple wobbly, creaky oldies currently that 'never lie down' and I'm again just like 'Well maybe that is telling you something?'.

I had one that was bloody sneaky about laying down for a snooze, she never would if people were about. Caught her asleep in the field twice over the years (And the first time I thought she was dead as I drove up the road to see her flat out on the hillside!), but the remote camera I bought revealed she did indeed still sleep and get up/down without issue which was a relief.
 

Birker2020

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I saw a post someone had put on FB recently about a horse at what looked like a rescue home and he was in a paddock and hadn't the strength to get up from the floor despite struggling. They had to with him up.

To be fair it might be that I don't know the ins and outs of his situation but I did feel that it wasn't a dignified situation for him to be in and maybe they should look at his quality of life. It might have been that putting a bit more weight on him and a bit more muscle might have sorted him out, but if I owned an in that situation and pain relief didn't help then I would pts. I've always monitored both Bailey and Lari for mud on their rugs and evidence they were getting down to roll, and I used to try and see them rise so I knew they weren't struggling.

I've always considered its time when they struggle to get up. Its not dignified.
 
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PinkvSantaboots

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I would pts in that situation.

I saw a horse continually get stuck in the field where I worked owner just wouldn't accept he couldn't get up, he unfortunately went down in the stable one night I found him down in the morning in a right state obviously been down a while, thing is once they get to a stage the legs go dead and puts a strain on all the internal organs so it's too late.

He was pts on the floor in a state of shock and stress and will never forget it and don't want to see it again it was horrible, to make matters worse the stable was in an internal narrow barn and it took several men and ages to get him out they had to take the door off it's hinges and could have been avoided had he been pts when it first started happening in the field.
 

SEL

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Yes - didn't put the boy in my avatar through winter 22/23 because his arthritis was getting on top of him and if I'd found him down in the mud not able to get up I would never have forgiven myself.

I watch even the younger one with arthritis closely when she rolls to check there is no issue with her getting back up.

Struggling to get up is my line in the sand where PTS is concerned because it must be incredibly stressful for a prey animal to know if they lie down they might not be able to get up quickly if they need to.
 

Birker2020

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Yes - didn't put the boy in my avatar through winter 22/23 because his arthritis was getting on top of him and if I'd found him down in the mud not able to get up I would never have forgiven myself.

I watch even the younger one with arthritis closely when she rolls to check there is no issue with her getting back up.

Struggling to get up is my line in the sand where PTS is concerned because it must be incredibly stressful for a prey animal to know if they lie down they might not be able to get up quickly if they need to.
Yes, its why my wobblers horse was pts as well. In case it could not rise.
 

rabatsa

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I have had two pts that did not lay down. One was an older horse with shivers and probable arthritis. The other was only 15yrs old and his not laying down was probably related to his neck but not fully investigated as cost was too high. He had been scoped and treated for ulcers ect but they were a symptom, not the cause.

Both horses were able to get down and roll quite happily and get back up again.
 

Prancerpoos

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Yes. As a child of around 9 or 10 I remember seeing an elderly horse that lived in a nearby field was lying in the mud. He couldn't get up and, when the fire brigade came and winched him up, the eye on the side he was lying on was gone - I don't remember exactly how as I fled in horror. No horse should be allowed to get anywhere near that state.
 

Hackback

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I had one that was bloody sneaky about laying down for a snooze, she never would if people were about. Caught her asleep in the field twice over the years (And the first time I thought she was dead as I drove up the road to see her flat out on the hillside!), but the remote camera I bought revealed she did indeed still sleep and get up/down without issue which was a relief.

I have one like that. The only time I've seen him laying down was when he had colic. I know he does like down every night because the evidence is all over his rug or his flank 💩
 

mini-eventer

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Yes - Mine could still get up and down and it wouldn't have been obvious to anyone who didn't know him so well that there was an issue. But he was grey and remarkably cleaner in his last couple of years - which told me he was not getting down so much. This summer I found strange stable stains on his hind quarters and I feel it was from changing the way he was getting up. It was a huge factor in why I had him PTS prior to this winter.

I really did not want either of us to go through the trauma of finding him unable to get up
 

SussexbytheXmasTree

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My old boy who I lost in Oct 22 at 27yrs wouldn’t lie down to sleep in the last few years of life at least in the stable. However he was full of beans, galloped around, bucked, rolled both sides including right over was sound and won several veteran showing classes and championships in his last years. He fractured his pastern messing around in the field which ended his life. A couple of times I observed him nearly fall sleeping standing up but as he was enjoying life and looked amazing I felt it wasn’t time. I know others would think differently and in different circumstances I might make a different decision.

This was him 2 months previously.

IMG_0073.jpeg
 

Hannahgb

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Mine was put to sleep with this being a large factor, he was beginning to get stiff to get up and down to roll so knew it was time. I cant imagine not being able to take weight off your feet, when likely its your legs that are sore from arthritis etc contributing to not being able to lie down in the first place?!
 

Cortez

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I agree with the "competitive aging" comment above. I was absolutely disgusted with an acquaintance who kept their old mare going past all that was reasonable just so he could say she was 34. They were getting her up with a tractor for the last few months of her life, she was absolutely crippled with arthritis, toothless, and miserable in that last winter.

If a horse is struggling with getting up or down I would put it down. I have cameras in the stables, so I can see what's what - some horses you never see lying down as they will rise when they hear you coming. My bay horse looked just like the one in the picture above, but he was barely able to rise and had arthritic hocks, so he went before things got too bad.
 

BMA2

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100% PTS if there was an inkling there was an issue getting up and down.

I recall as a child someone coming to borrow some bute for the farrier. When she came to pay she said it was the first time he got up and down & rolled for YEARS.

It was suggested that he stayed on bute but they said oh no...that will damage his liver
 

BMA2

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Poor Pidge being disturbed.

I remember Jackdaws landing and pulling out coat out of a very very old Shetland Cross pony when he had a lay down (Cross by breed and nature). He lived to early 40s fueled by pure stubbornness. The parts that the birds beak stripped had the most beautiful summer coat compared to other parts of him
 

poiuytrewq

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Having helped get an old horse up several times it’s something I swear will never happen to mine.
I have a pony who is 30 and I never actually see him lie down, however I know he does because he gets straw on him and is covered in mud!
 

SEL

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Yes. Pidge will be 27 in April, he still lies down for an afternoon kip. Worries me terribly when the magpies gather round him, so I pop down to check he is still alive, to a grumpy Pidge having had his kip disturbed 😴
The magpies gather around one of my totally healthy ones. She does have a lovely floofy coat so I think baby magpies grow up in luxury.
 

meleeka

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The first time I see one of mine struggling to get up would be the only time they ever struggled to get up.
If you assist them this time it is a just 'when' not 'if' the next time would be, and that could be hours later after getting stuck.

Mine was helped up once, but that was only because OH thought he saw him slip on a muddy patch when he tried to get up after a roll. I would have called it then but was persuaded to give him the benefit of the doubt. He went onto daily bute after that for a couple of months, until I saw him on the camera down in his stable, unable to get up, so he was pts then.
 

splashgirl45

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My first horse was 24 and had been retired for 2 years , one day he rolled in the field and really struggled for quite a while to get up, I worked in London full time and my friends whose horses were at the same place also worked full time so if he had gone down at 7.30 after I had turned out he would have been laying there till 6.30 ish in the evening . This made me decide to PTS and as it was winter it would have been worse for him . He was PTS as soon as I could book him in, it was 5 of the longest days I can remember. If I had my own land and didn’t work I think I would have been able to take a bit longer to decide as I felt pressured to get it done quickly in those circumstances
 
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