When old horses stop lying down..

[Fransurrey]

Just watched the explanation video and I think there is a key point in there that it isn’t all the time and someone is always there to help him up (not sure what happens at night?). For me this does settle it slightly for me, if his QOL is good and it isn’t 24/7 he’s having to be picked up maybe it isn’t time?

The part that did really concern me was the suggestion he was being kept alive so the other one wouldn’t have to be PTS…

Horses are not designed to lie down for more than a couple of hours, tops. The weight shuts off blood supply to the muscles, resulting in myopathy and neuropathy. Thus, if the horse lies down in the evening and is left until morning, it will be in considerable pain for most of that time and afterwards, similar to if I was trapped under a heavy wardrobe for 12 hours. The sudden release of toxins trapped in the muscles will then cause the equine equivalent of human 'crush syndrome'. That's why horses are placed in a particular orientation for surgery. Having to be picked up even once a week is too much.

 

[ponynutz]

Horses are not designed to lie down for more than a couple of hours, tops. The weight shuts off blood supply to the muscles, resulting in myopathy and neuropathy. Thus, if the horse lies down in the evening and is left until morning, it will be in considerable pain for most of that time and afterwards, similar to if I was trapped under a heavy wardrobe for 12 hours. The sudden release of toxins trapped in the muscles will then cause the equine equivalent of human 'crush syndrome'. That's why horses are placed in a particular orientation for surgery. Having to be picked up even once a week is too much.

Yes, I agree. Sorry, was just trying to share her side of the story given she has no voice on the forum but posted it at 6am this morning very sleep deprived. Did get slightly sucked into her explanation and was semi-reassured however the original video and comments about the welfare of the other donkey still made me hugely uncomfortable. Thanks for the info

 

[Annagain]

As the owner of a 30 yr old, I have some very certain red lines and this is one of them. Since moving yards he hasn't lain down in his stable but none of the horses have so I'm not too concerned about that. He has been lying down and rolling with a vengeance in the field though. Whenever I see him rolling or lying down, I watch him like a hawk and he's getting up as easily as he always has. He has a touch of mud fever today (for the first time ever but again, so have half the yard) so he's in and if he's in for more than two or three days and he's not lying down, I'll have to have a good think.

 

[Winters100]

A very famous youtube called this Esme that a lot of people like on this forum has 35 year old donkey she pick ups every morning and constantly brags about it picking on tictok . She obviously got a lot a hate and basically made a response tictok said she won’t pts until her can’t walk or when a vet tells her and Esme vet is from a big vet hospital so not vets don’t tell people to pts . She is a patron for world horse welfare and donkey rescue.

Of course vets can give very valuable advice, but they are limited to a short period of time while they examine the horse. It is for the owner or caretaker to fill in the gaps, and they should be the ones who know when quality of life is deteriorating. How can a vet possibly know that a horse who always tore off over the fields when turned out now just stands by the gate? Or that a horse is finding it increasingly difficult to get up? Or that they are just miserable and not themselves anymore. We are the only voice that our animals have, and just because a vet does not tell us that their time is up does not make it right to keep going. Vets are between a rock and a hard place, because if they push strongly for an animal to be put to sleep, an owner who disagrees will simply not call them out again.

I know that when my elderly mare needs to be let go I will have to battle with the vet. He is excellent, and I use him because he is the best in the area and will come anytime, nights / weekends, however he and I have different opinions on this matter. As an example, when my elderly mare had a colic, I told him that I would not put her through a surgery, so we had to solve it, or she would be PTS. He disagreed most strongly, to the point that I had a friend who is a vet on standby to drive some considerable distance to us in case it was necessary. Thankfully in this case it was not necessary, my vet and I have 'agreed to disagree', on the understanding that I will bring another vet in circumstances where he feels unable to do something in good conscience, but I will 100% fight for what I see as being in the best interests of my animals.

Edited to add that it is absolutely not because I do not want to pay fur surgeries or treatment, I can afford anything she needs, and I do not begrudge anything spent on this pony, who is incredibly special to me, and has the best care that I know how to give. It is for me a simple matter that an older animal has little to gain from a surgery with a long recovery.

 

[Wishfilly]

As I didn't give my opinion on my first post, I will say not being able to get up independently is definitely a red line, and if a horse wasn't rolling or lying down or was doing so less frequently, I would definitely have the vet out and very seriously discuss PTS.

As others have said, horses (and other equines) are prey animals, and for them to be stuck is really distressing for them, as well as the major physical issues it causes.

WRT This Esme, my understanding is the donkeys technically legally belong to a relative of hers, and she has known them all her life, so I imagine she is a bit blinded to the reality of the situation, and also the final decision to put to sleep is not hers. However, it upsets me that she thinks this content is appropriate to put out to her young audience as if it's okay AND that brands and charities including WHW continue to work with her, despite her videos showing this situation. I can imagine that someone is around most days in the daytime to help, but I can't believe anyone is supervising those donkeys 24/7.