When people say they've 'Checked their horses backs'

[Parkranger]

It concerns me a bit. The last few months I've known of a few horses who won't go forward, buck off their owners etc and they all say they've had the back/saddle checked but surely having a physio look at a back isn't going to pick up the things that an xray will?

Case in question - girl at the yard has a lovely horse but it broncs and rears constantly at anything faster than a trot. Back man didn't pick anything up. Xray showed that she had broken her pelvis at some point and it was causing her problems.

Just makes me wonder how much faith we put in our physios when they can't possibly diagnose real issues like that?

 

[silverbullet]

Well I do get out my physio first if I suspect a back problem. But if it continued I would then get the vet out to rule out other problems.
I think sometimes some people like to try and ignore the problem and hope it will go away by itself.

 

[Persephone]

I would always have the vet as a first check personally.

 

[3Beasties]

I get my TB's back checked by a Chiropractor at least twice a year, usually it's just because he is a bit grumpy when being rugged/tacked up and sometimes it's because his pelvis is out of alignment (I can feel this as soon as I get on him now), the chiropractor sorts him out and I have no further problems for a while.

If my horse didn't improve or was always rearing/bucking I wouldn't hesitate to get the vet out to take X-rays or whatever else was needed.

 

[brighteyes]

I've often wondered about that. Just to say one person has given it the OK doesn't necessarily mean all is well, sadly.

 

[Parkranger]

I agree that back person is probably first step but if the problem persists then they obviously need a vet?

 

[lannerch]

I think we need to clarify the difference between a bakc person and a physio, one is highly trained the other may not be.

I do not think a physio would miss pain, they might not be able to correctly diagnose the cause of the pain which an xray would, but they would know there was a problem.

Agree with you though park ranger physio first and then if necesssary vet but one is not substitute for the other.

 

[Booboos]

Mine all have routine six monthly checks by the (qualified) physio who talks to my vet if she finds something.

If there was a problem like napping, bucking, etc. I would start with the vet and then get the physio out.

 

[ester]

depends on the severity of the problem imo. with something like that I would def be investigating with vet.

 

[alsxx]

I think it would depend on the problem, for example if one of mine started behaving quite violently then I would go straight for the vet. I like the idea of physios etc for say stiffness and keeping things ticking over, but dont see them as a miracle cure.

 

[eggs]

Back people, physios, etc are not meant to 'treat' a horse without the approval of the vet.

 

[ester]

[ QUOTE ]
Back people, physios, etc are not meant to 'treat' a horse without the approval of the vet.

[/ QUOTE ]

though as discussed before this is a bit of a woolly area actually and not as clear cut legislation wise as many think

If mine were doing anything more than a reluctance to work correctly, in my boys case disunitedness which leads to wrong strike offs if left. it would be a vet visit regardless.

 

[Jonesy]

surely any sensible person would get get say a physio or chiro/osteo to check the back ... if problems still persist then you would consult your vet again (after initially seeking permission to get horse treated by physio etc) and go down further exploratory routes?

My horse see's a chiro regularly - she doesn't buck or anything like that, but it's more for my piece of mind to ensure she is comfortable in work, again same with saddler etc etc.

 

[EstherYoung]

Eggs - you're absolutely right.

Also, a back person/physio/etc may loosten off tight muscles and work towards re-aligning the horse but if there's something else underlying the muscles will tighten straight back up again. So just because someone has looked at a horse and declared it supple on one occasion, it doesn't mean that horse is guaranteed to be OK for the next 6 months - it could well be back where it started the following day. Any therapist worth their salt will bounce back to the vet for further investigation if the issue recurs.

 

[H's mum]

I think this is why legally the only way you can get an appointment with the "backperson" whether osteo/physio or chiro is via a referal from your vet

Kate x

 

[PapaFrita]

[ QUOTE ]
I get my TB's back checked by a Chiropractor at least twice a year, usually it's just because he is a bit grumpy when being rugged/tacked up and sometimes it's because his pelvis is out of alignment

[/ QUOTE ]
How is a pelvis out of alignment? Can you tell by looking at it?

 

[dressagecrazy]

I have a Qualified Physio who does routine maintenance of my horses. With any problems i always consult my Vets first never the Physio, my Physio then consults with the vets & works with them if she is needed.

I do love my physio though as 3 weeks ago my old horse did serious damage & tore several muscles causing extreme pain & muscle spasms it was terrible.
My vet came out & did what he could, i then phoned my Physio for advice about the spasms & she was brilliant gave me seriously good advice when i needed it, she even phoned my vet to consult even though she has not been out to see him yet.

A good fully qualified Physio is worth there weight in gold, much better imo than any Chiro & i did use to use Chiro's.

 

[bushbaby28]

God never even properly thought about this. always assumed that if horse was in major pain from something so serious then it would be obvious or physio would be able to find pain.

If the physio could not help I would always go to vet and get investigated. i trust my physio enough to be honest about whether they know whats wrong or not.

 

[LadyRascasse]

its quite easy to see if a horse is out of alignment, my bak person showed me and now i can tell on horses if they are out of alignment. basically, you look at them (obvious i know) look at there shoulder blades when they are standing square, are they even? look at there face is are there eye sockets and nostrils at the same height? if not they are out of alignment same goes for there pelvis (they need to be standing square obviously)

you then need to call a professional in to sort out the problem i personally prefer to call the person trained in the specific area before calling the vet.

i hope your friend gets there horse sorted

 

[ester]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I get my TB's back checked by a Chiropractor at least twice a year, usually it's just because he is a bit grumpy when being rugged/tacked up and sometimes it's because his pelvis is out of alignment

[/ QUOTE ]
How is a pelvis out of alignment? Can you tell by looking at it?

[/ QUOTE ]

now that I can do, Frank will look very much lower on one side, normally the left when stood square and when walking away. I should video him next time. ...... when like this he will still be competing dr/sj quite happily.

 

[ester]

and also re vet

http://www.rcvs.org.uk/Templates/Previou...entNodeID=89642

see point vi

which relates to this

The Veterinary Surgery (Exemptions) Order states that: -

1. The Veterinary Surgery (Exemptions) Order 1962 allows for the treatment of animals by 'physiotherapy', provided that the animal has first been seen by a veterinary surgeon who has diagnosed the condition and decided that it should be treated by physiotherapy under his/her direction.

2. 'Physiotherapy' is interpreted as including all kinds of manipulative therapy. It therefore includes osteopathy and chiropractic but would not, for example, include acupuncture or aromatherapy.

If that helps at all!

Though in practice I have only once had a vet diagnose a specific 'condition' as outlined here which was subsequently treated.

 

[PapaFrita]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I get my TB's back checked by a Chiropractor at least twice a year, usually it's just because he is a bit grumpy when being rugged/tacked up and sometimes it's because his pelvis is out of alignment

[/ QUOTE ]
How is a pelvis out of alignment? Can you tell by looking at it?

[/ QUOTE ]

now that I can do, Frank will look very much lower on one side, normally the left when stood square and when walking away. I should video him next time. ...... when like this he will still be competing dr/sj quite happily.

[/ QUOTE ]
So what causes it? Does he get tight on one side and the muscles 'pull' it out of alignment? Is it an old injury? (excuse all the questions!

)

 

[mainpower]

I have a horse with a slightly twisted pelvis, it is thought that something hapened to him when being born. From when I was breaking him in he has been stiffer to the right, heavier in my right hand, and if spooking always spun to the left. Two vets, a physio and my instructor said it was in my head. One day, a "back man" was treating another livery at the yard, and I walked my horse past him. He turned to me and said "is your horse stiff to the right, does he..." and described his symptoms to a t. I was so pleased at last to have someone tell me what I thought for so long, that he really does have a problem, the biggest physical clue is that his tail is permanantly to the left. So twice a year he is manipulated and treated with the magnetic pulse machine. After treatment he "pings" like a bouncy ball, and I have to sit very still as he becomes very sensitive to my leg! The other thing that he suffers from is a bit of kidnet trouble now and then.

 

[wysiwyg]

There also things an x-ray wouldn't pick up.

So they aren't fool proof either.

But, having said that, i'd certainly expect a decent "back-person" to pick up a problem as basic as a "pelvic" one.

 

[Parkranger]

Martha, I meant xray's to encompass scans aswell or any kind of test a vet can do.

Mainpower I'd be really concerned if my vet hadn't picked that out considering his tail was to one side!

 

[ester]

PF I think its because the muscles get tight on that side. I know that when last seen the person was surprised as he looked much worse in walk than when stood.

I liken it to me, I get a bit spasmy sometimes in the base of my back, it makes me walk odd too but can carry on with normal life.

I will double check for you when I next see my super lady who is now back from having babies exactly what causes it. As far as I know no injury at any time, but when we had our crash fall like yours he was bad after that. I think he is just older, stiffer sometimes and needs a massage! He is better for doing lots of correct flatwork, I am better if I do pilates

Other (younger) mare has causatives normally, like pulling back from trailer= not very good for your neck.

 

[Serenity087]

Never had a back person out ever.

Fit my own saddles.

Never had a horse with a bad back.

Co-incidence?

 

[Araminta]

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is why legally the only way you can get an appointment with the "backperson" whether osteo/physio or chiro is via a referal from your vet

Kate x

[/ QUOTE ]

Not strictly true.

The horses vets permission must be sought before treatment but in many cases a phone call is sufficient.

 

[SusieT]

Depends on a physio-a true physio(I am a cynic regarding chiro/mctimoney/'the back man') will identify if there is a problem that needs investigated-however it's likely a vet would also pick that up. I have never seen it done but imagine a back 'x-ray' would be a lot more complex/require different equipment to other x-rays so would be difficult to do routinely for bad behaviour.