When WOULD you hit a horse? Or would you?

[vikkiandmonica]

I too have walloped a horse with a head collar before, a fairly nasty mare that would charge at you with teeth bared, turn around, and try and double barrel you. Her owner was about 12 at the time, I was 14, went to help her, and was faced with the mare. I must admit, I whacked her with all my might, as she was really serious about hurting us.

I would never do that with any of mine, 1 because none of them would attack. Sometimes Wings pulls faces, but I think he must have been hit in the past, as if you walk towards him as though you're going to tell him off, not smack him, but make yourself seem threatening, he raises himself up to full height and pulls faces. If you just ignore him, and make yourself smaller and give him a stroke, he goes back to normal.

I've never been attacked by any of mine though, so have never needed to wallop them due to them trying to get at me.

 

[Mrs B]

I think I must be fortunate then, I've never been attacked by a horse.

Very often we are the architects of our own mis fortune when people get into these sort of situations.

Sanctimonious twaddle, Andy!

Yes, you are fortunate. And sheltered.

If you work with horses, in any capacity, you may find that you are dealing at short notice with other people's horses who may not have had the benefit of your enlightened approach.

Plus, occasionally, it transpires that you have to deal with an animal - even a well known one -which has gone right back to 'instinct' mode and is therefore quite a dangerous proposition.

In 40 plus years, I've not had to belt (and I DON'T mean beat up) a horse often - maybe half a dozen times in total - but I would not hesitate to do it again if my life, someone else's or the horse's was in danger.

 

[team barney]

Very often we are the architects of our own mis fortune when people get into these sort of situations.

Some horses have mental issues, their pasts are not always disclosed. Extreme situations are very rare thankfully. They can happen anywhere, in a yard, stable or field. Management is no measure against such behaviour when it is an unknown trait, which it often is.

 

[Enfys]

Was the pony ok? Poor little love must have been so scared.

It was Charley at barely a year old at the time, he was very quiet and clingy for a few days, but soon bounced back, he actually looks in the mirror and sees this 17h hulk rather than a 32" scruffbutt!

 

[showqa]

Ah bless him Enfys.

 

[Wolfie]

Have and will again if needed. Rearing, napping, kicking, biting, aggression to other horses would require a slap, as would refusing to load when they know better. A sharp slap in time does a power of good. Not that I batter the daylights out of my horse, just don't fancy him, me or another horse getting injured because I faffed around. For example, when my boy was 5, he decided to start pushing the boundaries. Whilst in the grooming area he reared up and lunged at another horse with teeth and front feet. He got a thump he took to bed with him and has never done it again. When he is fresh, and just back in work he will hump, buck and kick out at cars and horses when hacking, a slap usually reminds him this is unacceptable. Most of the time I use a procush whip btw, certainly for comps etc, but I am not adverse to dealing out some corporal punishment (and would do so to children if I had any as well!).

 

[Wolfie]

Enfys - my last horse put down our colt a couple of times by biting him in the neck and then tried to trample him. It was pretty scary. They had to be separated. Doubt it would do it now though, as said 'colt' is a buff big cob who was late cut!

 

[team barney]

It was Charley at barely a year old at the time, he was very quiet and clingy for a few days, but soon bounced back, he actually looks in the mirror and sees this 17h hulk rather than a 32" scruffbutt!

Cripes he was only a baby glad was alright in the end, must have shaken him up though, and you.

p.s my shortie thinks he is an awful lot bigger than he actually is too, and he used to be best mates with a horse he could virtually walk under!

 

[Jennyharvey]

Im quite lucky that none of my horses really need a smack. i guess the only time i would smack a horse is if its behaviour is dangerous ie biting or kicking or being aggressive. I would rather teach a horse NOT to be agressive, but sometimes a horse you dont know well will catch you off guard, and if they threaten me, i will defend myself if i can.

 

[ladyt25]

We had a welsh cob (I query now if he was a rig) who would attach other horses and he meant it. He'd go in to a 'kill' type mode. It is very scary to witness and if a horse did that to a person then you would not have much option other than to belt it and/or RUN!!!

 

[NicoleS_007]

If the horse is being a complete butt brain then yes. My last gelding liked to test people and if he could get away with murder he would!! There were quite a few times my little sister rode him and he would refuse to canter and buck with her just because he new he could get away with it as she wouldnt hit him. Cue me getting on cracking him across the arse, a swift wise up and he was an angel. If my wee sister got off to let me on just to show her something he was a hell of a lot more responsive, probably because he new he wouldnt get away with half arsed efforts. I could litterally sit on the horse and ask for a halt to canter, oh i miss him!!

 

[much-jittering]

Ditto those who have said yes for safety - yes I have and yes I would. Worked with a horse once who used to run backwards sometimes when it was halted (otherwise perfectly behaved under saddle), and one day when I was using him a hack escort along the verge back to the yard and waiting for another horse to finish having a wee he did it into the road - that was the last time I really belted a horse from on board and it must have been 3 years ago. If I hadn't he would have certainly put himself under a car. In hindsight the behaviour in the halt must have been pain related as we found other issues and had a work up and found all sorts of pelvic problems we'd not been informed about - does that mean I regret the 3 hard whacks accross the backside with a stick when he didn't listen to my 'stop it' kick? Of course not. Yes he was in pain and was reacting to pain, but he'd have been in a darn sight more if he'd thrown himself under a car.

In a similar situation somebody I work with has had a driver wind down the window and say 'you can't treat a horse like that', when she's put her heart and soul into making him come right without beating him, and when it's the difference between going under a lorry and not, does wallop him. The horse is finally coming out of the other end of behaviour that would have had plenty of people shoot it.

Ditto completely the person who said the people who say so emphatically 'never', have had the good fortune to never meet some of the extreme ends of equine behaviour. A horse who picks up a cat that happens to be walking by and flings it accross the lawn is clearly not a horse that is open to negotiation at that particular moment.

 

[bex1984]

Yes. Murphy has had one serious mega-wallop (with a schooling whip) - he messed around when I was trying to load him and pushed me off the ramp into the road. Have never had a problem loading him since - it was a bit of a wonder cure, although I wasn't smacking him for not loading, he got a smack for pushing me.

He has had plenty of other smacks for pushing boundaries, barging, dragging me about, and when ridden for being a nappy pillock in the road/when people are close by on the ground. That's not to say I'd do it with every horse, but it works with Murphy.

 

[AndySpooner]

Some very extreme cases here. Does anyone seriously think a horse with a 'brain tumor' or similar would take any notice of a bloke with a stick, the truth is no, the horse wouldn't feel it. So what chance a child, youngster or woman.(no matter how feisty).

 

[cptrayes]

Over many years I have bought the cheapest horses that I could get hold of, which were very often ones that other people had spoiled by incorrect handling. That handling had never been too hard, it had always been too soft. I probably hit every one of them at one point or another. Every one of those horses left me capable of being managed by a novice, and many went when I sold them to children, with a clear conscience in spite of their previous behaviour, which in some cases had put previous riders in hospital.

I have seen more horses spoiled by not being hit when they needed it than by being hit when they did not deserve it. A horse hit when it does not deserve it forgives you. A horse uncorrected in a bad habit often gets worse until it hurts someone.

My favourite one was a horse I bought whose owner said "you can't hit him and he won't cross bridges". I took him out on a hack and when I got to the bridge and he refused to cross it, I hit him and he walked across it. He never queried crossing a bridge again. He was, as so many horses are, looking for leadership.

I hit my five year old today. He was out in company with two horses he lives with, but he wanted to go home to his Shetland pony. He spun in the road and almost knocked the child off one of my other horses. I hit him to let him know it was unacceptable behaviour. I did it again when he did it a second time. And the third time I belted him as hard as I could with an extended arm onto his backside. At that point, he understood that doing it again was going to have some very severe consequences, and gave up. The behaviour was dangerous, unacceptable and the punishment was deserved.

There is an old saying "if in doubt hit the horse". It is not, as it sounds, a charter for horse abuse. What it means is "give the horse leadership even if you have to pretend. Don't let your own fear show. If that means that you have to hit the horse, that's better than leaving him wondering whether he can trust you".

I find the current trend for saying that it is never necessary to hit a horse, at times ridiculous and more often dangerous. Mind you, I shouldn't complain, I'm always going to be able to pick up cheap "badly behaved" horses when I want one.

 

[talkinghorse]

I would never hit a horse.

I cannot use a whip to defend myself from a horse, it has far better weapons than I have, so it would always win.

I would not use a whip to punish a horse. If it does something that I don't want it to, I would look at my training and correct the problem.

I would not use a whip to train a horse, my body movement and language are more effective.

Anyone who thinks hitting a horse will solve a problem is lacking in knowledge of horse behaviour. Anyone who thinks hitting a horse will punish an unwanted behaviour is lacking in knowledge of horse psychology.

All you will achieve by hitting a horse is to teach the horse that it can't trust you. If you do it often enough, you can even teach a horse to be very dangerous, so you need to take responsibility for what you do.

Some of us make a living solving problems with horses that others have created, it would be better for horses if the owners had the time, patience and education to put us out of business.

 

[OneInAMillion]

You have to be able to say that you would consider it. We have to remember that these horses are much heavier/bigger than us and if they start throwing their weight around they could end up putting you in danger. And no I'm not talking about beating a horse but I won't let a horse walk all over me. It isn't fun

 

[Kokopelli]

A good wallop, never! But sometimes a reminder of manners needs to be done, although I normally do these by voice.

I had a horse once who also had a brain tumour and he was very nasty. I fell off him once in the school and he went for me teeth bared and was trying to stamp on me. I stumbled to my feet and jumped the fence luckily with only a few bites and kicks and nothing too serious.

I did not have the chance to hit him and even if I did it wouldn't have done anything as he wouldn't have felt it not with the adrenalin going around his body.

 

[AndySpooner]

I would never hit a horse.

I cannot use a whip to defend myself from a horse, it has far better weapons than I have, so it would always win.

I would not use a whip to punish a horse. If it does something that I don't want it to, I would look at my training and correct the problem.

I would not use a whip to train a horse, my body movement and language are more effective.

Anyone who thinks hitting a horse will solve a problem is lacking in knowledge of horse behaviour. Anyone who thinks hitting a horse will punish an unwanted behaviour is lacking in knowledge of horse psychology.

All you will achieve by hitting a horse is to teach the horse that it can't trust you. If you do it often enough, you can even teach a horse to be very dangerous, so you need to take responsibility for what you do.

Some of us make a living solving problems with horses that others have created, it would be better for horses if the owners had the time, patience and education to put us out of business.

^^Like^^

 

[Baggybreeches]

Over many years I have bought the cheapest horses that I could get hold of, which were very often ones that other people had spoiled by incorrect handling. That handling had never been too hard, it had always been too soft. I probably hit every one of them at one point or another.

I have seen more horses spoiled by not being hit when they needed it than by being hit when they did not deserve it. A horse hit when it does not deserve it forgives you. A horse uncorrected in a bad habit often gets worse until it hurts someone.

I find the current trend for saying that it is never necessary to hit a horse at times ridiculous and often dangerous.

This is very true!
I hit a horse when it is warranted, which is never at any defined time. I currently have a 17.1hh TB who I have owned for 6 years and probably smacked with a whip twice in total in all that time, he is a very sensitive well mannered horse and it is usually best to comfort him than smack him. I also have in a 12hh Section A pony who has come for reschooling because she has been allowed to run riot for the past 2 years and her reaction to anything she didn't like was to rear up (right up). With one or two good 'sessions' this pony has made a remarkable turn around but will never be suitable for these people she is far too smart for them. The pony craves discipline, routine and work and hasn't needed a good smack for 3 weeks now.

 

[coen]

Yes I would wallop a horse if need be (would not beat them). I used to be completely against hitting them, didn't agree with harsh measures like chifneys ect but the truth is some horses do need putting in place on occasion and if they are not then there behaviour can escalate and become dangerous.
Oh and this isn't ferring to horses with mental problems or who have had bad lives, some horses just like to be boss and push the boundaries.

 

[Wagtail]

I allow my mare to nip me and basically play with me but not hurt me. If she hurt me then yes I would 'nip' her back! I don't need to now though. She knows exactly what my pain threshold is and if she inadvertently goes too far then she startles and looks at me waiting for the nip. So I don't need to do it any more. She knows

 

[Holly Hocks]

Strange that this post has come up today. I have had my ex-racer mare a year - I've noticed recently that she's started to walk all over me. She has been very ill with various things over the last 10 months, so I've tended to be just too kind to her - she has got exactly what she wants. Tonight I brought her back from 2 days of lameness investigation at the vets - she was in her stable and had eaten her tea. She was kicking the door to go out. I went in and was trying to put her fetlock ring on her back leg (she is a self harmer, so wears it for protection) and for the first time ever she lashed out at me - and she was fast. I got out of the way, but before I had got upright, she swung her hind quarters round at me and sent me flying into the wall, really hurting my shoulder (going to casualty in the morning!). Even though I was in agony, I picked up the stick which was right outside the door and smacked her on her chest to get her back from the door which she was then barging to get out of, while saying "back". I did this a few times, although I only tapped her with the stick after the first time. She now knows the word "back" and it will be reinforced (hopefully without the stick) until she learns to respect my space. I don't feel proud of smacking her, but it's made me realise that I really do need to be more firm with her, or I am going to end up being more injured than tonight.

 

[ladyt25]

You have to be able to say that you would consider it. We have to remember that these horses are much heavier/bigger than us and if they start throwing their weight around they could end up putting you in danger. And no I'm not talking about beating a horse but I won't let a horse walk all over me. It isn't fun

I agree. I work on the basis that horses 'punish' each other when another in the lower level of the pecking order steps out of line so, if my horse pushes the boundaries with me then he will be reprimanded (this does not mean I belt him though) IF i had to though i guess I would. I have seen my pony go absolutely ballistic with one of the lower ranking of our horses when said lower ranking individual accidentally bit him in his excitement to get to food. Blimey did HE know he was out of line.My pony went mad with him, he got a full on belting, chased away, bitten, squealed at etc etc, he was not allowed near for a good 3 mins (and that was when we were still there!!!). It was quite interesting to watch mind.

 

[SophieLouBee]

My horse gets a whack most days tbh, he's big, rude and takes the pee. He'll barge you right over if you don't assert yourself, I shout first, then failing that he gets a smack, and as hard as I belt him, it still must feel like a gnat on his giant ass anyways. I hold the whip with him when the farrier comes, and he usually gets at least one belt because, again, rude, and takes the farrier, tools and all with him when he goes. If we have all hell breaking loose, someone getting cornered over food etc, I get the lunge whip out and crack it.

Apart from him I don't need to really smack the others, they know as soon as my voice raises that I'v had quite enough as whatever is going on. When they have a tiff in the field I lean over the gate, give a menacing stare and shout 'OI', they all stop dead and pull the most sweet innocent faces, as if nothing was happening, then they skulk off and eat.

So yeah, I smack my horses, when they deserve it, and guess what, they all still think I'm their biological mother and follow me around the field like the pied piper! Love and respect go very well together!

 

[siennamum]

Over many years I have bought the cheapest horses that I could get hold of, which were very often ones that other people had spoiled by incorrect handling. That handling had never been too hard, it had always been too soft. I probably hit every one of them at one point or another. Every one of those horses left me capable of being managed by a novice, and many went when I sold them to children, with a clear conscience in spite of their previous behaviour, which in some cases had put previous riders in hospital.

I have seen more horses spoiled by not being hit when they needed it than by being hit when they did not deserve it. A horse hit when it does not deserve it forgives you. A horse uncorrected in a bad habit often gets worse until it hurts someone.

My favourite one was a horse I bought whose owner said "you can't hit him and he won't cross bridges". I took him out on a hack and when I got to the bridge and he refused to cross it, I hit him and he walked across it. He never queried crossing a bridge again. He was, as so many horses are, looking for leadership.

I hit my five year old today. He was out in company with two horses he lives with, but he wanted to go home to his Shetland pony. He spun in the road and almost knocked the child off one of my other horses. I hit him to let him know it was unacceptable behaviour. I did it again when he did it a second time. And the third time I belted him as hard as I could with an extended arm onto his backside. At that point, he understood that doing it again was going to have some very severe consequences, and gave up. The behaviour was dangerous, unacceptable and the punishment was deserved.

There is an old saying "if in doubt hit the horse". It is not, as it sounds, a charter for horse abuse. What it means is "give the horse leadership even if you have to pretend. Don't let your own fear show. If that means that you have to hit the horse, that's better than leaving him wondering whether he can trust you".

I find the current trend for saying that it is never necessary to hit a horse, at times ridiculous and more often dangerous. Mind you, I shouldn't complain, I'm always going to be able to pick up cheap "badly behaved" horses when I want one.

Completely agree with this. I really think people who declare they never have hit, or will, hit a horse either have one or two amiable horses, have horses which walk all over them, or really have little experience of horses.

You could spend months trying to reinforce that something is not desirable (like napping), or you could give your horse a sharp smack on the backside and solve the problem in 10 minutes.

If you are dominant with a horse and do smack it, it doesn't stop respecting you or lose it's trust, in fact the opposite happens. My youngster was aggressive on the ground when I first got him, he still tries it on periodically. He has to be put back in his place with the minimum of fuss and a little rough justice. Pussyfooting around with a 16.2 who will not back down if you square up to him, is not an option.

 

[cptrayes]

I would never hit a horse.

Good for you.

I cannot use a whip to defend myself from a horse, it has far better weapons than I have, so it would always win.

Rubbish. The horse does not win. You can use psychology, plus the whip if psychology is not enough, to put the horse in its place. Horses do not generally fight to the death with a trainer, they give in at the first sharp reminder.

I would not use a whip to punish a horse. If it does something that I don't want it to, I would look at my training and correct the problem.

Bully for you. While you are contemplating how you will look at your training, the horse that someone else has spoiled has meanwhile smashed you into the stable wall breaking your arm.

I would not use a whip to train a horse, my body movement and language are more effective.

Not always they aren't. Sometimes a horse is bolshy because it is actually scared. With some horses like that, giving them a whack to tell them you are in control allows them to release decision making to you, and they can be instantly happier and less nervous about life. It beats me why people think is is always better to take a longer time to train a horse, when it can mean that the horse is unhappy for longer than it needs to be. "Quick fixes" are not always the evil that they are made out to be.

Anyone who thinks hitting a horse will solve a problem is lacking in knowledge of horse behaviour. Anyone who thinks hitting a horse will punish an unwanted behaviour is lacking in knowledge of horse psychology.

Utter rubbish. Hitting horses at the right time does solve problems. In my earlier example, the horse was over his fear of being hit and his fear of bridges in 30 seconds and they never reoccurred. The result required was achieved in double quick time with no visible upset for the horse. It is perfectly possible to train a horse out of unwanted behaviours by hitting it, and often correct to do so. I have a Shetland who like all Shetlands would raid the feed shed if he could. On the one occasion he got in there and had his head in the dry sugar beat (a death sentence) I kicked him as hard as I could until he scrambled out of there. He's never gone in there again, and if he looks as if he wants to, the simple word "no" makes him turn in the other direction. He seems to have a clear memory of how much trouble it got him into to be in the feed shed, and that's exactly how I want it, in case my OH leaves the door open by mistake again like he sometimes does. I want him scared of that room for his own safety. No amount of positive reinforcement would have the same result with a stomach orientated Shetland.

All you will achieve by hitting a horse is to teach the horse that it can't trust you. If you do it often enough, you can even teach a horse to be very dangerous, so you need to take responsibility for what you do.

Rubbish. I hit my horses and they follow me everywhere when I go into their field. I tack them up, groom them, worm them, trim their feet, plait them, bath them and do EVERYTHING with them without tying them up. They trust me absolutely.

You 'd have to be a complete idiot to continue to hit a horse you were teaching to be dangerous. It's far easier to ruin a horse by being too soft than too hard.

Some of us make a living solving problems with horses that others have created, it would be better for horses if the owners had the time, patience and education to put us out of business.

I think you probably make a living out of people who don't know how to handle horses, not out of people who hit them occasionally. I'd eat my hat if most of the owners of the horses you train are not too inexperienced, too soft or too inconsistent rather than too hard. On the other hand, it certainly is possible to make a living out of buying horses cheap that other people have ruined and putting them right with a bit of good discipline and rewards for good behaviour and then selling them for twice or three times what you paid for them.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Yes, I have on occasions when warranted (just like many other long-term owners/breakers/breeders etc).

Its NOT nice to experience extreme behaviour, and - I've seen it over the years

AndySpooner - believe me, some I've had were unhandled (from birth) and to have a heavy 4 or 5 yr old pinning you down or trying to attack (and meaning it!) is quite frankly very dangerous. How can you say that 'its the way its been previously treated? because it has not had ANY human contact........so no 'treatment' good/bad/indifferent can be pointed at as a cause for such an extreme outburst.

Anyways, could write on various cases from here to kingdom come, but am in total agreement with the likes of Enfys

 

[Wagtail]

I was once severely attacked by a mare. All I did was lean over her door to check if she had haylage. Her teeth clamped around my upper arm like a vice. I had 5 layers of clothing on as it was mid winter. My arm was black from shoulder to elbow. At the time I picked up everything at hand and threw it at her! Later on that year she kicked my trainer and ruptured her spleen, then attacked her owner in the field with her front legs and broke 3 ribs.

 

[Dolly_Mixture]

The only time I've really whacked a horse was after I'd put up with a horrid animal for WEEKS charging at me every time I went in the field, rearing at my head, baring teeth, biting, turning round to double barrel me... I'd had enough and pelted him across the rump with a lead rope. Wouldnt have done any damage, but it gave him a shock and made him remember what little manners he had!!