When you're done with horses but horse is unsellable?

[CanteringCarrot]

This is the kind of value judgement that I don't think you have any right, except for a right to freedom of speech, to write.

It's only value judgment if you take it that way. I also don't think we need to tell people their "rights"

It was that posters opinion, view, and take on the situation.

If we want to really pick on it, I don't think many posters have any right here except for a right to freedom of speech. I've seen judgemental attitudes, backhandedness, and quite frankly people spouting BS more times than I can count. Many posters are not qualified to comment on many things, but still do. I don't care to tell them their "rights" but I understand where you're coming from.

At the end of the day, riding is a privilege and not a right. Now, if someone needs riding to literally survive (sorry I just don't have that much of an attachment to it) then they do what they have to do to survive/keep themselves in a good place... But to what extent should an animal suffer for that? That's just a general comment, not toward anyone, but we've all seen horses that are kept going purely for the owners sake and not their own. That's another matter though, not exactly my original point.

I'd of course rather a horse be humanely with euthanized vs human losing every bit of their sanity and mind.

At the end of the day, we only have horses for selfish reasons. Myself included.

 

[stangs]

“Horse riding is a right” is the worst opinion I’ve seen on this forum yet.

It is a complete and utter privilege that these animals, prey animals at that, allow us to sit on their backs. If you need to ride to have a will to live, see a therapist. Don’t put your problems on the horse.

 

[Dave's Mam]

OP, my heart is with you. It's not a decision that is lightly or easily made.
To those bickering over the rights & wrongs of the situation, is this really the place? Wise up.

 

[ponynutz]

Deleted

 

[ponynutz]

OP, my heart is with you. It's not a decision that is lightly or easily made.
To those bickering over the rights & wrongs of the situation, is this really the place? Wise up.

100% agree - a couple of people, myself included, have suggested a separate thread but it's continued.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Sometimes discussions evolve on a discussion board, unfortunately, no one owns the thread even though someone starts it. There's been a lot of "policing" and rudeness lately (but I'll wise up! Got it!).

I get where people are coming from, and I'm done here anyway.

There is also the option to ignore, scroll, or not contribute

Taking my own advice, btw ?

 

[SO1]

I know of 4 people in very similar situations to Birker who bought expensive competition horses 2 dressage and 2 eventers. The horses passed vettings but from very soon in started having problems and after spending time and money trying to resolve the problems they gave up.

3 people decided to PTS and one decided to retire. The person who decided to retire got another horse who also developed issues and had to be retired and is now on her 3rd potential event horse.

The other eventer has a share horse and the two dressage riders still ride occasionally friends horses or riding school ones. They did not replace horses PTS.

One of them did try the blood bank but her horse did not settle there.

These horses all warmbloods under age of 11 so would have had long retirements.

I do think people are more likely to PTS anrideable horse perhaps if they have not had it long so have not built up the bond so much. It is quite different feeling retiring your elderly horse you have had over 10 years of ridden work with than perhaps a horse that you have never had the pleasure of riding for the job they were intended for and only had a year or so.

 

[sky1000]

OMG, please don't. I wish I hadn't read that. Poor, poor horses.[/Yes it is a bit on the heart breaking side. QUOTE]

 

[Dave's Mam]

This thread isn't about Birker.

 

[ycbm]

It's only value judgment if you take it that way. I also don't think we need to tell people their "rights"

It was that posters opinion, view, and take on the situation.

If we want to really pick on it, I don't think many posters have any right here except for a right to freedom of speech. I've seen judgemental attitudes, backhandedness, and quite frankly people spouting BS more times than I can count. Many posters are not qualified to comment on many things, but still do. I don't care to tell them their "rights" but I understand where you're coming from.

At the end of the day, riding is a privilege and not a right. Now, if someone needs riding to literally survive (sorry I just don't have that much of an attachment to it) then they do what they have to do to survive/keep themselves in a good place... But to what extent should an animal suffer for that? That's just a general comment, not toward anyone, but we've all seen horses that are kept going purely for the owners sake and not their own. That's another matter though, not exactly my original point.

I'd of course rather a horse be humanely with euthanized vs human losing every bit of their sanity and mind.

At the end of the day, we only have horses for selfish reasons. Myself included.

As a general point I completely agree with you. As a specific point made quoting another poster who is clearly going through an exceptionally hard time right now, I thought it was below the belt and deserved a comment.

Of course riding is not a right, but it's nobody's business but the owner why they choose to lawfully, quietly, humanely PTS an unsound horse so that they can afford to keep another which is, hopefully, rideable.
.

 

[maya2008]

Up thread it was mentioned that personal experiences help…

- first horse I ever saw pts had snapped its leg in the field (literally, leg was swinging). Hunt came and that was that.
- second horse had hung on…and on…and on… for its much loved owner, despite being in pain and struggling to cope with life. When she finally went down for the last time and couldn’t get up, vet was called. I promised myself then that I would never let it get to that point with any of mine.
- my own first pts had a condition we had beaten once before. We went down the vet route but she was too old and this time couldn’t beat it. Months on box rest, on bute, only to be pts anyway. Lesson learned from that is not to spend a fortune trying to fix old horses when the outcome is uncertain anyway. Not fair on them.
- second own pts was old retired mare whose arthritis had progressed to the point where she was miserable, not eating, falling over. Called knackerman as soon as she went from happy to miserable.
- third own pts went with her best friend as it was her last summer anyway and she had become increasingly aggressive, showing clearly she was in pain. The day she attacked one of the yearlings (she was previously the sweetest soul) was the day I knew.

Only one of those that were mine ever retired. I currently have a Shetland who got lami while on loan. Six months later she is comfortable in walk but still lame in trot. She’s not unhappy, so we’re keeping going. We bought another small one to keep her company, built her a grass free pen outdoors and are giving her the best chance we can. I will give her a year and we’ll see. She can’t spend the rest of her life on box rest/small pen turnout. Vets fully involved, negative for Cushings.

I have sent two horses out on loan in my life, both came back broken. I would sell a healthy horse (have done that with good outcomes) but would pts before I would ever loan again. Even on loan to the best of people, it just doesn’t seem to work.

 

[ycbm]

I have to admit I don't know what I'll do if Ludo gets a mechanical, pain free injury. It's not a situation I've ever faced with a horse, and you never know how you'll react until you're actually in that situation.

I'm glad the OP says that she's found the thread helpful. I suspect there will be a lot of people in her position as the food and energy bills really hit.

I suspect there will also be people trying to sell for financial reasons who find out their horse won't pass a vet, and that's nightmare territory if the horse could recover but you just can't afford the vet fees and the livery while it does.
..

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I am very much if its your horse it's your choice I have worked in yards over the years where I have dealt with other people's horses when the owner wants them to be pts but can't deal with it.

Some I agreed with some I didn't but I've learnt that it's not my decision so I've kept my nose out of it, I appreciate that it's hard enough without people putting there views and judgement on you at such a time, so I just got on with the the job in hand and made sure it was done properly.

I am sorry for the posters on here that have got flack for having a horse pts no one has the right to do that.

Sending horses to a blood bank it's not for me but that's a subject for a different thread but as usual some posters on here decide to make everything about them and there situation.

 

[paddy555]

Of course riding is not a right, but it's nobody's business but the owner why they choose to lawfully, quietly, humanely PTS an unsound horse so that they can afford to keep another which is, hopefully, rideable.
.

I totally agree it is no one's business however if people post on a forum then surely they are going to get comments and suggestions. Some will agree and some disagree.
Birker addressed a post to me last night and I replied. I gave a suggestion as to what she could do.

I know of 4 people in very similar situations to Birker who bought expensive competition horses 2 dressage and 2 eventers. The horses passed vettings but from very soon in started having problems and after spending time and money trying to resolve the problems they gave up.

3 people decided to PTS and one decided to retire. The person who decided to retire got another horse who also developed issues and had to be retired and is now on her 3rd potential event horse.

I think this is very relevant in her case.

 

[paddy555]

I have to admit I don't know what I'll do if Ludo gets a mechanical, pain free injury. It's not a situation I've ever faced with a horse, and you never know how you'll react until you're actually in that situation.

..

can't do another set of quotes but this was post 77 and it was in fact the reason I even posted on this thread.

" That's one reason why I never retire horses, I can't be sure they aren't in pain'.

you are right and you never do know how you'll react until you find yourself in that situation so personally I don't think the automatic default PTS advice given on here is always correct.

. Maybe Ludo would be retired. As I have already said I retire (I never pass them on and I know I am lucky to be able to) and there is a lot of pleasure to be gained from a retired horse.

 

[Birker2020]

It may be a difficult choice, but it is a choice. You have made the decision to send your horse to the blood bank or pts to enable you to replace him with a horse you can ride. You could decide to keep the horse if the thought of saying goodbye to him is so painful for you, but you are putting your wish to ride first. I’m not criticising your decision, but it’s at odds with your argument that he should have the opportunity to live a long and happy life in a herd. Because he will only have this opportunity if the blood bank take him and his retirement is not at your expense. Otherwise he’ll be pts.

Re: your last sentence. No that's not quite correct, I've also stated on here numerous times that if i can find something to ride even if its a riding school lesson once a week and it satisfies my urge to ride than i shall keep him where he is if the bloodbank won't take him. Thanks

 

[Upthecreek]

This thread isn't about Birker.

It isn’t but anyone who chooses to post about their own personal situation must surely expect people to comment on it?

Threads evolve and different issues to the original subject come up. I don’t see any problem with that.

 

[Upthecreek]

Re: your last sentence. No that's not quite correct, I've also stated on here numerous times that if i can find something to ride even if its a riding school lesson once a week and it satisfies my urge to ride than i shall keep him where he is if the bloodbank won't take him. Thanks

Sorry I must have missed you saying that. I thought the latest was you planned to pts in the spring if the blood bank wouldn’t take him.

 

[Birker2020]

Sorry I must have missed you saying that. I thought the latest was you planned to pts in the spring if the blood bank wouldn’t take him.

It's ok. I'm really hoping to keep him if the BB say no. One day I will be in the position to keep him in retirement and buy one to ride but until then I'm hoping to lose the weight one and for all and loan/riding school and see his big white face over the door.

 

[Flame_]

there is a lot of pleasure to be gained from a retired horse.

This isn't true for some people. Some people just love to ride. To event, to show, to hunt, to jump jumps, to improve the ridden partnership. They endure the non-ridden stuff, pay a lot of money for someone else to do it or at best accept and tolerate it to do the things that bring them pleasure. I've mellowed with age and developed appreciation for, and enjoyment of, taking care of horses but what I like about horses most is still riding them.

 

[Goldenstar]

There is pleasure in having a retired friend like my wicked pal Fatty.
However and I don’t find it easy to articulate this I find it an uncomfortable experience the truth is I find it like having the decision hanging over you permanently because it’s always there just round the corner and you go through it over and over .
having got into it you have decide when you stop and question all time is he ok has he deteriorated all the time .
When he did have pain because of the teeth thing you have to make the decision to do something about it and having decided and then consider the costs and putting the horses through the experience.
Then of course you know that’s just it till the next time .

 

[ycbm]

I don't think the automatic default PTS advice given on here is always correct.

Nobody gives that advice.

All they do is say that is their own position.

I've never seen one single post give that as advice. You are misinterpreting people explaining what their own position is, (often in response to your own challenge of them), as "giving advice" to others.
.

 

[ycbm]

there is a lot of pleasure to be gained from a retired horse.

For YOU. You cannot speak for anyone else.
.

 

[HollyWoozle]

OP, I am sorry for your situation but you sound very wise and I believe your horse is lucky to be in your care.

We will never sell our horses and ponies or loan them out, the day I feel their quality of life isn’t good enough they will be put to sleep at home. However we are lucky to have family land and the means to keep retired horses at a limited cost - I completely understand that it’s not feasible for many and do not judge anybody for putting their horse to sleep over retiring them. As others have said, horses don’t worry about the future in the same way we do (at least not to my knowledge!).

I chose to have a mare PTS around aged 15 due to an arthritic knee - that was over 10 years ago and whilst I do not regret the decision for a moment, I think of her and of that day often. And you know what? I’m pleased I do… the decision to end a life should not ever be easy. It is a power we are fortunate to have and a gift we can give to end suffering, but it will never be comfortable and that’s the price we pay for owning and, in many cases, loving our pets.

On the other side of the coin, my current mare has been retired for years now too due to behavioural problems when ridden which we couldn’t figure out (I expect relating to pain under saddle). I firmly believe she is comfortable in the field and that she has a great life, so she stays there since we have the space and resources to care for her, but she would’ve been easy to pass on. I know that decision would’ve haunted me forever and here we are… a field full of horses, nothing to ride, but I sleep well at night and I think they do too. BUT if we hadn’t owned land she would be at permanent rest already.

 

[paddy555]

Nobody gives that advice.

All they do is say that is their own position.

I've never seen one single post give that as advice, you are misinterpreting people explaining what their own position is, (often in response to your own challenge of them), as "giving advice" to others.
.

if you look at numerous threads (not this one) but ones about problem/old horses then a very large number of the replies will be PTS. A few will make other suggestions but many times I have seen them criticised for their alternative suggestions.

PTS may well be the answer but I do find it depressing that it always,, to me at least, seems to come out as the stock reply.

 

[Goldenstar]

Because it is the logical course of action in most situations.
And it is never wrong because a horse does not suffer once it’s PTS .
These are stark facts .

 

[Dexter]

This thread isn't about Birker.

Every thread ends up being about her though

 

[ycbm]

if you look at numerous threads (not this one) but ones about problem/old horses then a very large number of the replies will be PTS. A few will make other suggestions but many times I have seen them criticised for their alternative suggestions.

PTS may well be the answer but I do find it depressing that it always,, to me at least, seems to come out as the stock reply.

Nobody posts with a "should I PTS?" query without their horse being in a situation where PTS is a sensible option, so there are bound to always be posts supporting that as a way forward.

The day someone posts "my horse is a good all rounder but I'm fed up with him and want a sportier model, should I have him PTS as it will be easier than selling him?", then I think you'll find that what you consider to be a default answer is no such thing.
.

 

[Dexter]

Because it is the logical course of action in most situations.
And it is never wrong because a horse does not suffer once it’s PTS .
These are stark facts .

A dead horse never suffers. They never end up in a downwards spiral. They never end up going from dodgy dealer to dodgy dealer.

And that is why PTS is always suggested.

 

[paddy555]

For YOU. You cannot speak for anyone else.
.

I apologise, you are quite correct. I guess I made the assumption that many on here would actually like horses for being, well, horses. That they would get pleasure from looking after them and spending time with them, trying to resolve their problems.

It is my mistake as I simply didn't realise, until Flame pointed it out, that so many people do in fact "endure" and "tolerate" their horses just for their use as a machine to hunt, jump etc. Those are just not my sort of people so I am probably best off out of this thread.