When you're done with horses but horse is unsellable?

[Tiddlypom]

Most 'should I PTS' posts are about terminally sick or broken horses who do not and are unlikely ever to fit the basic criteria of being a happy pasture ornament.

I'd never need to post such a thread, I do not need my decisions validated by the HHO consensus, yet time and again such threads are posted.

 

[ycbm]

It is my mistake as I simply didn't realise, until Flame pointed it out, that so many people do in fact "endure" and "tolerate" their horses just for their use as a machine to hunt, jump etc. Those are just not my sort of people so I am probably best off out of this thread.

Smiley notwithstanding, this is a pretty nasty post if it's directed at forum members.
.

 

[conniegirl]

I apologise, you are quite correct. I guess I made the assumption that many on here would actually like horses for being, well, horses. That they would get pleasure from looking after them and spending time with them, trying to resolve their problems.

It is my mistake as I simply didn't realise, until Flame pointed it out, that so many people do in fact "endure" and "tolerate" their horses just for their use as a machine to hunt, jump etc. Those are just not my sort of people so I am probably best off out of this thread.

What a nasty judgemental post.

tbh the only one being judgemental on this thread is you.

 

[Goldenstar]

Most 'should I PTS' posts are about terminally sick or broken horses who do not and are unlikely ever to fit the basic criteria of being a happy pasture ornament.

I'd never need to post such a thread, I do not need my decisions validated by the HHO consensus, yet time and again such threads are posted.

Many People need help when they are making the decision and you can see from this thread some people in RL are very unkind to those in this situation .

 

[tristar]

many of these situations are not clear cut, the very least we can do is listen and support.

it is a credit to many that they make the effort to find a humane solution, and not just take the quickest or easiest way out.

 

[Flame_]

Not aimed at you at all op - But I am so tired of people on social media whining about their elderly or broken horse ending up in a sh&t dealers yard because they sold it or gave it away as a companion rather than doing the right thing, be that retirement with the owner or pts. If an elderly broken horse ends up suffering IT IS ON THE OWNER for giving it away or selling it. I have zero sympathy for them and every sympathy for the poor horse.

This one irks me a bit. I wish there were harsher punishments, more consequences and maybe more ways of preventing the real villains in the chain (which are the people obtaining horses under false pretences then making money of the back of them by selling them deceitfully to someone else) doing what they do. They barely get a mention but well intentioned owners who are misled victims, get a hard time. It's like an amped up version of berating someone for not locking their car and someone stealing it. I do have sympathy for these people but understand why it's important to keep reminding horse owners in general about needing to protect their horses from this fate, like reminding them to lock their cars.

 

[scats]

I’ve always been very clear that I have dogs and cats as pets, I don’t keep horses as pets. I buy them and keep them to ride. Preparing to be shot down in flames here but my reasons for committing to the whole horse thing is because of the lifestyle that riding brings for me. I don’t get any particular enjoyment out of the ‘caring’ for my horses, to be honest, but I do my absolute best to give them a life that they deserve and I dedicate pretty much everything to them. Have I kept horses who have had to be retired young? Yes. But I have been in the fortunate position to afford 1-2 horses alongside the retiree, so I can still enjoy riding.
The effect on my mental health when I am out of the saddle for any length of time is really quite worrying. Some people might be happy watching horses grazing in fields, or grooming or pottering about with them, but I’m not one of those people. I can totally see how not having a horse that you can ride could be catastrophic to someone’s mental health. As a result, there would no be judgement from me if someone chose to PTS a horse with multiple problems that meant they can’t be ridden.

 

[ycbm]

it is a credit to many that they make the effort to find a humane solution, and not just take the quickest or easiest way out.

The easiest way out that I think you are referring to, professional PTS, is always a humane solution.
.

 

[Sossigpoker]

Not aimed at you at all op - But I am so tired of people on social media whining about their elderly or broken horse ending up in a sh&t dealers yard because they sold it or gave it away as a companion rather than doing the right thing, be that retirement with the owner or pts. If an elderly broken horse ends up suffering IT IS ON THE OWNER for giving it away or selling it. I have zero sympathy for them and every sympathy for the poor horse.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[SO1]

I think we have to be honest here most people do not buy horses as companion animals in the same way we do cats and dogs.

Most people buy horses because they want to ride. Same reason people go to riding schools or want to get a share horse.

When I bought Homey 15 years ago it was important that he had a nice temperament and like being brushed and cuddled and was easy to handle on the ground as I expected one day he would become a non ridden companion to me even if just due to old age and at that point I could still enjoy his company if he had a good temperament.

Sadly he had to be PTS at 20 due to a gastric impaction so it never got to the point that he was retired but unridable. He was PTS under BEVA guidance on advice from my vet.

I do want to get another pony because I want to ride more than I am currently doing at the riding school, and I want to complete. I do enjoy the cuddles and companionship but I would not buy horse just for that purpose. There are plenty of offers from friends to groom and cuddle their horses including retired ones.

I would not put down a horse if it was unrideable unless on the advice of my vet or perhaps in the situation where I felt quality of life was poor such as a laminitic who could never have grass turnout again if I couldn't find a grass free track livery option, or financially I could not afford to provide a good quality of life as vets bills were unmanageable for example long term ulcer treatment which costs 2k a month if that had to be permanent then it would just not be an option for years on end.

Vet treatment can be really expensive one of my friends spents £7 a day on Cushings tablets for her two veterans.

Some people's circumstances will change and they can no longer afford to be a horse owner without it impacting severely on family life or pushing themselves into an unacceptable level of debt and then they cannot borrow more.

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

I have to admit I don't know what I'll do if Ludo gets a mechanical, pain free injury. It's not a situation I've ever faced with a horse,

Send him to me ???

I'm interested to read all of the replies on here, we clearly have a very diverse set of personal opinions/experiences and circumstances.
I have 2 horses and haven't ridden since March for a few reasons and I've been thinking about the riding thing alot. I am probably in the minority of horse owners but I actually enjoy the day to day non riding stuff as much as riding. I love just being with them and hanging out, watching and seeing what makes them tick. I don't know how I'd feel if they were unrideable to be honest. I'm very, very lucky in that my horses live out, live down the road and cost very little to keep in terms of field rent and general maintenance. I might feel more strongly one way or the other if I were at a livery yard and paying out much more money. Whether we like it or not it does quite often come down to our finances and circumstances with horses. I don't think anyone is wrong to PTS but I think it's lovely if you can offer a pain free, happy retirement.

 

[Bellaboo18]

Send him to me ???

I'm interested to read all of the replies on here, we clearly have a very diverse set of personal opinions/experiences and circumstances.
I have 2 horses and haven't ridden since March for a few reasons and I've been thinking about the riding thing alot. I am probably in the minority of horse owners but I actually enjoy the day to day non riding stuff as much as riding. I love just being with them and hanging out, watching and seeing what makes them tick. I don't know how I'd feel if they were unrideable to be honest. I'm very, very lucky in that my horses live out, live down the road and cost very little to keep in terms of field rent and general maintenance. I might feel more strongly one way or the other if I were at a livery yard and paying out much more money. Whether we like it or not it does quite often come down to our finances and circumstances with horses. I don't think anyone is wrong to PTS but I think it's lovely if you can offer a pain free, happy retirement.

I love hanging out with my horses. I often sit in the field with them for hours (more so in the summer!). The other liveries find it odd and I just say I find them great company ?

 

[Barton Bounty]

I do that too! I love sitting with my boy ?

 

[Boulty]

Will admit I've tried twice to retire horses & both times concluded in the space of a few months that I wasn't happy they were comfortable enough even on maximum bute dose for their weight.

One of them, although conversations with the vet about his options were ongoing (he'd had hock arthritis for about 8 years) it was the point at which I realised that he couldn't play anymore & he really really wanted to. He was mildly lame in walk & looked awful in trot even on bute. Ended up letting him go in the middle of an awful period of snow & frost & decided I never wanted to have to make that call in the middle of winter again.

Second pony wasn't as obviously lame day to day but had neck arthritis & issues with his poll (plus other issues that meant he couldn't live out 24/7 on grass and had to be on a track). Did used to go lame if he went charging about, especially if it was wet & slippy. He liked charging about on a regular basis. I became more & more concerned that his neck & back were causing him pain & when his poll was hurting he couldn't tolerate any pressure there without rearing. Was originally going to give him "one last Summer" until my trimmer who'd known him for years basically asked me why I was torturing myself / keeping him going any longer when we thought he was in pain. Again he was on as much bute as I dared (Cushing's & liver issues with a history of ulcers) but it honestly didn't seem to help him much.

Both were the sort of horse who thrived on work both physically (keeping muscle on both of them helped them massively with their health issues whilst they were sound enough to be ridden) and mentally and sadly they both declined a lot faster when they weren't able to do it anymore. The second horse I did do A LOT of stuff inhand including endless inhand walks, hillwork & polework plus straightness training etc when I was aiming to get him back in light work but sadly he was too broken at that point for it to make a difference.

Not all horses can have the happy, pain free retirement in a nice big field that we envisage as the "ideal" & calling it too early will always be kinder to the horse than too late / a fate of being passed around god knows how many times.

 

[SadKen]

This one irks me a bit. I wish there were harsher punishments, more consequences and maybe more ways of preventing the real villains in the chain (which are the people obtaining horses under false pretences then making money of the back of them by selling them deceitfully to someone else) doing what they do. They barely get a mention but well intentioned owners who are misled victims, get a hard time. It's like an amped up version of berating someone for not locking their car and someone stealing it. I do have sympathy for these people but understand why it's important to keep reminding horse owners in general about needing to protect their horses from this fate, like reminding them to lock their cars.

Sorry, disagree here. The horse is the victim, not the owner. I see posts selling horses who are in their twenties on preloved, or ‘potential brood mares’ and ‘companion TB’ for free or nearly free, due to injuries that the owner can’t or doesn’t want to investigate. People who sell or give those horses away are willing to accept an overwhelming risk that they will be mistreated and exploited by bad people. The owners do this because they can’t or won’t PTS or retire safely; it isn’t well intentioned because they do it for selfish reasons: so they don’t have to shoulder the burden of retirement or PTS. Those are the two options to secure the horse’s future. Letting elderly or injured horses leave your care is opening the door to abusers. It happens routinely. It is on the owner to minimise risks to the animals they claim to love.

Naivety is no excuse when you’re talking about obvious risks and animal welfare.

I have sympathy for those who tried to secure a loan home and were lied to, but would question the wisdom of loaning unrideable or elderly animals except maybe for small ponies because bad people are looking for exactly that and don’t care about contracts. And agree that harsher sentences would be good. But people can’t fuel the market for bad people to exploit animals then complain that such a market exists; if owners didn’t let these horses go, it would be harder for bad people to exploit the animals and the buyers into the bargain.

this may seem harsh but it really boils my blood to see the same old story over and over, and I will never forget the sale video for an ancient horse doing his best being ridden by a dodgy dealer despite his obvious age and stiffness. That broke my heart; the tedious whining from those who willingly put their elderly injured horses in harm’s way does not.

 

[SEL]

Most 'should I PTS' posts are about terminally sick or broken horses who do not and are unlikely ever to fit the basic criteria of being a happy pasture ornament.

I'd never need to post such a thread, I do not need my decisions validated by the HHO consensus, yet time and again such threads are posted.

Most of the time it's people needing a sounding board. My last one was tough and I didn't really have anyone I could sit down and talk it over with who wasn't at a safe emotional distance. I had a lot of sleepless nights and actually internet strangers as a sounding board would have been ok - except I have bad experience of HHO PTS threads already!

 

[Dave's Mam]

Expense has got to be a huge part of it. For me to keep an unridden pony would be £300 per month livery alone.

 

[Wishfilly]

I think expense is very different when you have a family, too. It's easy for me to say that if my pony needed to be retired, I'd keep him long term, assuming I believed he was happy and pain free. He's also, bar mild sweet itch, pretty easy to keep. I think it's much harder if they are e.g. laminitis prone, etc. If I had children, and I felt I could be using the money I spend keeping him on things for them, I think it would be more difficult.

That said, I do also enjoy doing ground work, taking him for walks in hand, and just hanging out and grooming- and I have no competitive ambitions. So it's perhaps an easy decision for me.

I definitely wouldn't pass on a horse that wasn't ridable for whatever reason- unless it was for a specific purpose, like showing in hand or breeding from a long term broodmare who'd never been backed. There are companion homes out there, but there are a lot more companions looking for homes.

 

[Ali27]

Sorry, disagree here. The horse is the victim, not the owner. I see posts selling horses who are in their twenties on preloved, or ‘potential brood mares’ and ‘companion TB’ for free or nearly free, due to injuries that the owner can’t or doesn’t want to investigate. People who sell or give those horses away are willing to accept an overwhelming risk that they will be mistreated and exploited by bad people. The owners do this because they can’t or won’t PTS or retire safely; it isn’t well intentioned because they do it for selfish reasons: so they don’t have to shoulder the burden of retirement or PTS. Those are the two options to secure the horse’s future. Letting elderly or injured horses leave your care is opening the door to abusers. It happens routinely. It is on the owner to minimise risks to the animals they claim to love.

Naivety is no excuse when you’re talking about obvious risks and animal welfare.

I have sympathy for those who tried to secure a loan home and were lied to, but would question the wisdom of loaning unrideable or elderly animals except maybe for small ponies because bad people are looking for exactly that and don’t care about contracts. And agree that harsher sentences would be good. But people can’t fuel the market for bad people to exploit animals then complain that such a market exists; if owners didn’t let these horses go, it would be harder for bad people to exploit the animals and the buyers into the bargain.

this may seem harsh but it really boils my blood to see the same old story over and over, and I will never forget the sale video for an ancient horse doing his best being ridden by a dodgy dealer despite his obvious age and stiffness. That broke my heart; the tedious whining from those who willingly put their elderly injured horses in harm’s way does not.

Absolutely agree with this! Hate that people sell old horses/ horses with issues!
I absolutely love riding but I love my ponies more! I’ve never sold a pony and mine are with me forever! Once I buy a horse then they are my absolute responsibility until the end of their days! My ridden pony is 20 and still going strong (had her since she was 6), being super careful and not jumping/ doing fast work on hard ground now but I owe it to her to have a happy retirement when needed (as long as pain free)! I’ve had two past horses/ ponies PTS when in early 20’s due to tendon injury/ liver failure so absolutely know when the right time to let them go is.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Most of the time it's people needing a sounding board. My last one was tough and I didn't really have anyone I could sit down and talk it over with who wasn't at a safe emotional distance. I had a lot of sleepless nights and actually internet strangers as a sounding board would have been ok - except I have bad experience of HHO PTS threads already!

Yes, I remember that you had a really rough time from a small minority of posters on that thread, despite it being clear that you were doing the best that you could for the pony ?.

 

[Gloi]

I think that now I am in my sixties if my current one became unrideable I would just keep him as a pet and not replace him. I would have found that much harder to do in my twenties when I was competing every week and wanted something that I could ride or at least show in hand as a youngster.

 

[marmalade76]

Sorry, disagree here. The horse is the victim, not the owner. I see posts selling horses who are in their twenties on preloved, or ‘potential brood mares’ and ‘companion TB’ for free or nearly free, due to injuries that the owner can’t or doesn’t want to investigate. People who sell or give those horses away are willing to accept an overwhelming risk that they will be mistreated and exploited by bad people. The owners do this because they can’t or won’t PTS or retire safely; it isn’t well intentioned because they do it for selfish reasons: so they don’t have to shoulder the burden of retirement or PTS. Those are the two options to secure the horse’s future. Letting elderly or injured horses leave your care is opening the door to abusers. It happens routinely. It is on the owner to minimise risks to the animals they claim to love.

Naivety is no excuse when you’re talking about obvious risks and animal welfare.

I have sympathy for those who tried to secure a loan home and were lied to, but would question the wisdom of loaning unrideable or elderly animals except maybe for small ponies because bad people are looking for exactly that and don’t care about contracts. And agree that harsher sentences would be good. But people can’t fuel the market for bad people to exploit animals then complain that such a market exists; if owners didn’t let these horses go, it would be harder for bad people to exploit the animals and the buyers into the bargain.

this may seem harsh but it really boils my blood to see the same old story over and over, and I will never forget the sale video for an ancient horse doing his best being ridden by a dodgy dealer despite his obvious age and stiffness. That broke my heart; the tedious whining from those who willingly put their elderly injured horses in harm’s way does not.

Agreed.
If they CBA to look after their old/broken horse themselves, what on earth makes them think that anyone else, with no emotional attachment to their horse, will?

 

[Errin Paddywack]

Something like 55 yrs ago when I was working at a RS my boss took me with her to Leicester Horse sales. There was an elderly roan gelding there, plaited up with big bristly plaits, no-one with him and I just felt so sorry for him. He looked an honest sort and just did not deserve to end up like that. He has haunted me ever since. Back then the meat men were at every sale and I expect that was where he ended up. I really, really hate people that do this to their old horses.

 

[meleeka]

The worst thing is when people defend giving them away by saying it wouldn’t be fair to put them to sleep. What’s not fair is thinking its
someone else’s problem and hoping for the best.

I had a friend that used to sell all her horses when they got to 16. She said that was the cut off and if they were older she’d have to keep them into their retirement, which she didn’t want to do. At the time I thought she was a bit heartless, but it made sense. She didn’t let her heart get in the way and all the horses I knew went on to find their forever homes.

 

[Cortez]

The worst thing is when people defend giving them away by saying it wouldn’t be fair to put them to sleep. What’s not fair is thinking its
someone else’s problem and hoping for the best.

I had a friend that used to sell all her horses when they got to 16. She said that was the cut off and if they were older she’d have to keep them into their retirement, which she didn’t want to do. At the time I thought she was a bit heartless, but it made sense. She didn’t let her heart get in the way and all the horses I knew went on to find their forever homes.

That is actually an ethical and sensible system, as long as the horses were sound and able to do a job for someone. I've never knowingly sold a lame horse, or an unrideable one. Come to think of it, I've never sold a horse in its' teens, except for one very well bred in-foal broodmare.

 

[Hepsibah]

One more experience to add to the others:
Bess, my Fell pony mare used to be a driving pony until she had an altercation with a pothole that left her with injury related arthritis. Her owner, after trying various things, found she was no longer up to being driven as she had been and decided to PTS. This was the winter of 2009/2010. She hired someone to take her to the vet who suggested she may be of use to someone else and offered to try to rehome her. I bought her to ride out on short, slow hacks with my partner. She was perfect for me and such a lovely person. I adored her. After careful consideration we decided to put her in foal and she had a lovely filly for us who we still own 11 years on.
A year of being turned out with doctor green then slowly coming back into work and she stayed sound. She made me very happy for years and years, ridden and unridden.
2017 she suddenly dropped a lot of weight so we got the vet who sent bloods off to Liphook. Results came back as end stage liver failure and PPID. This was Friday. I resolved to get the vet to PTS on Monday and spoil her thoroughly over the weekend. By Sunday she was a very happy seeming pony. Perky and chatty, absolutely loving her food and treats so my partner suggested we try her on prascend and see how she went. I wasn't wholly convinced it was the right thing to do but I could't deny she didn't seem unhappy. I agreed on the understanding that the moment she started to deteriorate, she would be PTS.
Two weeks later she was gaining weight and charging about like a loon as she always had thanks to the pink pill. That gave us three more years of riding until I retired her in 2020.
This February I could see she hadn't had a good winter. She had lived out with one other pony (not mine) in a small field close to the one I keep the others in and usually did fine. This year she hadn't. I had increased her dose of prascend and it wasn't agreeing with her but she needed it to control the PPID. I was out of options so I stopped the prascend and brought her to the field so she could spend a couple of weeks in with her daughter before I got the vet out.
She defied the odds again and perked up and became quite herself so again I put off the vet visit yet again and allowed her to continue until she became symptomatic. When she began to lose weight, we arranged the vet which gave us 48 hours. The following day was the hottest on record, 19th July. We gave all the horses a good soaking that morning then went to do it again at lunchtime and found Bess lying down, not wanting to get up. We called the vet and Bess was gone within the hour. Mine was one of four the vet had seen collapsed in the heat that day.
I don't know when the "right time" was but she went peacefully with a tummy full of food, her field mates around her and her head in my lap, giving my hand a nose wibble.

 

[Birker2020]

Most 'should I PTS' posts are about terminally sick or broken horses who do not and are unlikely ever to fit the basic criteria of being a happy pasture ornament.

I'd never need to post such a thread, I do not need my decisions validated by the HHO consensus, yet time and again such threads are posted.

Exactly. I make my own mind up based on the people who know my horse best, that's me, my vet, possibly my Y.O and not by some randomers on H&H forum.

I'd never come on to ask that question, if I mention it, its in passing and to update or give my POV when asked and certainly not because I want a WWYD? answer.

Everyone's circumstances are different.

 

[Annagain]

We've not long said goodbye to Monty, my old share horse. He was 26, had been retired 18 months due to a field injury after a very sound (and wonderful) ridden career. He didn't love retirement, he's always been a bit bit of a loner in the field (Archie was the only one allowed near him) so hanging out with buddies wasn't all that fun for him, being stabled overnight in winter (yard rules) didn't suit him (he tolerated it but didn't enjoy it) but equally moving him from the only home he'd known for 20 years so he could live out didn't feel right either.

Meanwhile, Archie (at least 26) who retired 2 1/2 years ago is the best he's ever been. He spent over 10 years semi-retired due to foot issues so I expected that when they finally caught up with him and he retired, he'd deteriorate quite quickly and if his feet didn't get him, his melanomas would (I was told I'd be lucky to get him to 20 with them). The opposite is true. He's the soundest he's been for years, he's not lost or gained any weight, his Victor Meldrew tendencies have disappeared and he's the happiest, cwtchiest, sweetest of horses. He's always been very sociable in the field and he seems to love being around his mates. He's sound in trot in the field on no bute at all, can be a bit stiff coming out of his stable after he's been in overnight but it's worn off by the time he reaches the field gate 30m away. He plays with his friends and can get out of trouble if needs be (although this is very rare as his little herd is very settled and he knows his place).

M's owner and I always had a loose agreement that we'd let them go together - they'd been best buds for 17 years and we all called them Waldorf and Stadler at the yard - but when it came to it, I couldn't do it with Arch. He's just too happy at the moment. I was so worried he'd be miserable without Mont but he seems absolutely fine. He seems to have teamed up with another horse who was always too scared of Monty to get close to Archie but who seems to be very happy to be with him now.

Plenty of other people would have let Archie go with Mont - his issues on paper would more than justify it. Many others would have done it 15 years ago when his feet first became an issue but knowing him like I do, I knew he wasn't ready then, and I know he's not ready now.

On paper, A would be the one to go and M not, but they both reacted so differently to the same situation that the reverse was true. That's why I'd never judge anyone for whichever decision they make. There is no right or wrong, just right or wrong FOR EACH INDIVIDUAL HORSE AND OWNER.

 

[cauda equina]

My old boy loved being retired; he went from a neurotic field bully to a chilled out dude
You don't know how a horse is going to take to retirement until you try it